My group is in the middle of the Demonskar Legacy. They breezed through the mod until they met the hag covey. Then, a group that normally is suspicious of their own shadows blindly trusted the hags. Here’s what happened:
The hags materialized and did their spiel. The wizard knowledge-monkey determined what they were (at least by appearance) and with one of his questions asked their alignment. From that point on, it’s been downhill.
Though the wizard is not the most charismatic PC, he did the majority of the talking so the hag approached him with the cup of poison. He drank and blew his Fort save; he let the group know he wasn’t feeling well, but that didn’t stop more PCs (a total of 5 of the 7) from partaking. 3 blew their initial Fort save.
Yes, I know this is not how the encounter was written to happen. I just didn’t think that the PCs would do anything but become suspicious of the hags if the hags came out with their, “Kill it! It’s evil!” ploy. So I had the hag keep offering the chalice to others.
The hags gave each other worried looks and said, “Perhaps we were wrong…perhaps you’re not the heroes we thought you were.” Instead of denying it, the PCs actually started questioning if something happened that they weren't aware of. I couldn’t believe it!
The hags then said, “Maybe we can help. Here let’s try this…” The three simultaneously touched 3 PCs. All 3 blew their Fort saves.
At this point the PCs said, “Uh, we need to get out of here.” The hags weren’t so obliging. In a nutshell, 3 PCs (wizard, cleric, warmage) dimension door’ed out to the pipe opening. Everyone else got confused; in addition, the archer was dropped, and the rogue and fighter got dominated.
The remaining PCs have started to regroup and re-enter the cave. The hags have turned invisible and retreated with their thralls.
At this point, I’m thinking of sending the two dominated PCs into the mirror and bargaining to get the rest in.
Some things to note:
• the PCs met with Nidrama and puzzled over the “false sisters” comment for the better part of half an hour, so it’s not like they didn’t have had a clue
• only once did one person ask for a Sense Motive check; not that anyone could have made the check against the hags’ Bluffs, but they didn’t even try
They've had a lot of bad luck, too, considering how few rolls they've had to make:
• the first time the wizard tried to cast dimension door, he missed his Concentration check
• the warmage attacked once, rolled a natural one
• twice the two-weapon fighter rolled a natural one on his first or second attack of the round; a house rule is a DC 10 Dex check to recover from a nat 1; a 20 Dex and he blew both
What would you do as a DM in this situation? I want to be fair without being overly cruel or a pushover.
Actually, aside from the players making a lot of really bad rolls, that is exactly how that encounter is supposed to go. The hags are supposed to be an extremely challenging encounter.
Perhaps this will inspire the PCs to pay a little more attention when celestials show up and start handing them information.
CEO
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It's funny, my players have this theory that a) if any supposedly good creature offers to help you, it must be evil and they should try to destroy it and b) if any supposedly good creature tells the party that they would love to help, but can't because of (insert various reasons), then they must be truly good and can be trusted. So far in SCAP, this has been borne out 100%. :) Needless to say, the hags didn't stand a chance with my group! Easiest...battle...ever.
-Lisa
On the good side you ended the game session before all was lost. Luck truly does run in streaks and the bad rolls should be gone when next you meet.
since the PC are Dominated there are a number of things you can do. Order them to kill their friends will give them a 2nd save. One that they should be able to make. Also you could ask them to fetch a glass of water from the nearest clean well. A task that will send them walking into the jungle for days at a time.
If the other player rest before coming back, Protection from evil will eliminate the effects of the Dominate.
I use to run with the Crit fumble rule like yours but I found that a Duel wielding fighter of 6 level or higher was almost guarantied to drop his weapon in any combat. When he starts rolling 5 attacks a round it gets bad. The better he gets the more likely he is to fumble.
Good luck and don’t let Nabbie take them to school like I did.
It's funny, my players have this theory that a) if any supposedly good creature offers to help you, it must be evil and they should try to destroy it and b) if any supposedly good creature tells the party that they would love to help, but can't because of (insert various reasons), then they must be truly good and can be trusted. So far in SCAP, this has been borne out 100%. :) Needless to say, the hags didn't stand a chance with my group! Easiest...battle...ever.
-Lisa
So, if they are good and want to help they are evil and if they are good but wont help they are good.
I guess that makes ... sence, somehow.
It's funny, my players have this theory that a) if any supposedly good creature offers to help you, it must be evil and they should try to destroy it and b) if any supposedly good creature tells the party that they would love to help, but can't because of (insert various reasons), then they must be truly good and can be trusted. So far in SCAP, this has been borne out 100%. :) Needless to say, the hags didn't stand a chance with my group! Easiest...battle...ever.
-Lisa
~LAUGHTER~
It's funny, my players have this theory that a) if any supposedly good creature offers to help you, it must be evil and they should try to destroy it and b) if any supposedly good creature tells the party that they would love to help, but can't because of (insert various reasons), then they must be truly good and can be trusted. So far in SCAP, this has been borne out 100%. :) Needless to say, the hags didn't stand a chance with my group! Easiest...battle...ever.
-Lisa
So your group tried to destroy Jenya, Meerthan, Maavu, Nidrama and various other good NPC's you introduced during the campaign? :-)
The hags almost killed my party. A bit cheatin' on my side though. When the hags offered the chalice, nobody made his sense motive check. Nevertheless, common sense and the warning of the false sisters by Nidrama made them suspicious and they refused the offer.I gave the hags a surprise round in which they cast dominate, confusion and eyebite. Some bad saves of the PC's and the next round the hags had good initiative, flew up and due to terrible rolls on attack (fighters are notoriously bad with bow stuff) and spell resistance the hags were able to cast forcecage on the fighter. Half of remaining party confused and odds were not so good. However, the hags were so confident of an easy prey, that they attacked the PC's physically, and then luck turned (i love that confusion spell) and a totally weakened party was able to kill 2 of the hags, 1 escaped to inform Nabthatoron.
In the end I think the dice play a big role in the outcome of battles. Well, sound tactics help ofcourse, but when the dice don't roll properly, hrrrr..
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CEO
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So your group tried to destroy Jenya, Meerthan, Maavu, Nidrama and various other good NPC's you introduced during the campaign? :-)
Well, the rule only holds for them when they are out on an adventure. Jenya's estranged son was one of the PCs, so they trusted her. One of my players became a Strider and so they trust Meerthan (though that didn't come easy for them). Maavu's son is also a PC, so they trusted him too. They didn't trust Nidrama until she told them "I dare not remain here long lest my presence attract the attentin of those forces...That is all that I am at liberty to say..." (p. 161 of SCAP). Basically they know that the way D&D is set up, the forces of good are usually uber powerful folks who can't totally interfere with unbalancing the play of the game. For instance, if Meerthan starting teleporting the PCs at lower levels, it takes away a lot of the danger of travelling to places like the Demonskar and the Kuo-toa temple. Also, you don't want your PCs to have access to too powerful of magic early on. So the powerful but good PCs give hints and advice, but basically always decline to help out in more material ways. The hags, on the other hand, are offering a powerful elixir. So they must be evil. :)
One of these days I am going to turn this attitude of theirs against them. One of these days. :)
-Lisa
Lisa,
How did you play Lord Vhalantru?
Delvesdeep
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CEO
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Lisa,
How did you play Lord Vhalantru?
Delvesdeep
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In my two attempts for Shackled City I had two different approaches to this:
1) the party needed to spring the captured Dark Creepers from the prison and asked in the Town Hall to whom they could speak about that. Lord Vhalantru was very helpful indeed (i.e. the party searched him out and he helped them a lot). They begun to trust him (stopped after first chapter - sigh).
2) the party first met him during the Flood Fetival @ the drinking contest. They are a bit more suspicious of him, but since Severen Navalant is such a bore (terrible longwinded speeches), they think he is the real power in Cauldron, doing the real governing work. At the last event of the Flood Season (a ball in the House of Vhalantru himself) they overheard a discussion between Vhalantru and Navalant about the need to hire half-orcs and orcs as guards, since their own guards were so depleted because the caravans were hit so frequnetly by the bandits of the Blue Duke. (stopped after Zenith Trajectory - this would also be the last time that the Lord Mayor would be seen in public).
I use to run with the Crit fumble rule like yours but I found that a Duel wielding fighter of 6 level or higher was almost guarantied to drop his weapon in any combat. When he starts rolling 5 attacks a round it gets bad. The better he gets the more likely he is to fumble.
I asked the group about this just a couple months ago and they wanted to keep the rule. *shrug* Their choice.
I use the fumble rule, but require a dex check DC 10 to not drop. If you pass the check, nothing happens.
So, your dual-wielder isn't penalized that bad.