If I could've been in charge of making 4th edition there's a ton I would have done differently.
Setting: I would have handled it like the D20 Future book. I would have had a chapter on Settings. Five pages each covering a number of favorite settings (Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Ravenloft and Dark Sun). Each one would list Gods, Nations, Conflicts & Power Groups.
Races: I would have distanced myself from the Tolkein races a bit, with a sidebar with rules for Dwarves and Elves and an explanation that while they exist, their superhuman lifespans and remote habitations make them somewhat on the periphery of most games. In their place I would create 6-8 new races (and a half-race template) taken from the great races synthesised from the game's run--maybe tweaked here and there to make them better companion races for humans.
Mechanics: Less dungeons. I'd feature drama and cinematic style over wargamey mechanics. Game balance wouldn't be nearly so much an issue as trying to loyally represent what each race, class, creature and item should really be like within this fantasy world--and then bend the mechanics to reflect this fluff as closely as possible. Make the crunch serve the fluff! Feats would be mostly regional and background feats to give the characters a bit of something special out of the gate--and would truly be helpful throughout the character's career. I'd probably axe the feats per so many levels thing. It's really turned out to be more of a pain than a boon.
Magic: More powerful magic, but somewhat less of it--at least in the main book. In previous editions, the spell section dominated half the book. I would trim that alot and save most of it for supliments. Just some of the flavorful, useful spells to get the ball rolling. While I would place huge (but hopefully flavorful and reasoned) restrictions to game-busting, drama-spoiling spells like Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Raise Dead, Resurrection, and Wish. I would also make a lot of the spells that are fun but too high level to ever use, usable at a lower level and more open-ended to reward creativity. Permanancy can make anything permanent unless specifically noted. Sympathy and Bestow Curse at much lower levels. Oh and I'd try to at least provide a smattering of low-power magical gear along with the normal gear, though again I'd save most of it for future books.
So...
-What do you think?
-What would you do if 4th ed. was yours to design?
-What would you do if 4th ed. was yours to design?
I would probably create something very much like a combo of Savage Worlds and Blue Rose/True20.
Presentation: a single slightly-larger-than-digest-sized book priced at about $15, Full color, with nice evocative art but not too much. Probably less than 200 pages. The goal is a simple and inexpensive game that scales very well and presents a lot of options while showing you how to use those options.
Races would be a simple set of templates and special abilities. Show examples of Human, Elf, Dwarf, Faerie, Goblin and some animal-hybrid or intelligent animal.
Classes would be gone, replaced by archetypes: Warrior, Mage, Expert. All other 'classes' would be re-creatable through a choice of feats, talent trees, switchable class abilities or specialty levels. I'd present five or six of the most common 'templates' for quick character creation. There would be a rough series of 'levels' such as Verteran, Hero, Champion, Paragon, Epic, etc; certain feats or talents couldn't be taken before you'd reached a certain rank.
If I could, I'd make the only dice required be d6's. Easy to find and cheap, plus they do a better job of generating numbers.
Skills would be simplified somewhat. Combat skills would replace the BAB. The power level would be a little higher but somewhat flatter. Hit points would be replaced by a series of conditions or 'Wounds' or something like that.
Spells would be replaced by powers; several basic powers such as 'damage', 'movement', 'sense', 'heal', or 'defense' would be modified by certain feats or talents. They'd be /somewhat/ generic but not a full-on implementation of anything like Mutants and Masterminds or HERO. That's just too complex and confusing. There's simply no need to have book after book loaded with individual spells, all of which have to be reseached, balanced, etc.
Magic items would be simpler to create; they'd basically be 'spell on a stick' or something like that. Items would take up maybe 2 pages.
Give a basic bread-and-butter set of monsters that will see long use and frequent play rather than a bunch of high-powered extraplanar monsters.
Give the GM several examples of 'mini worlds', and lots of practical GMing advice.
If I could've been in charge of making 4th edition there's a ton I would have done differently.
Setting: I would have handled it like the D20 Future book. I would have had a chapter on Settings. Five pages each covering a number of favorite settings (Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Ravenloft and Dark Sun). Each one would list Gods, Nations, Conflicts & Power Groups.
To my mind, there is so little difference between the first three setting that, for all intents and purposes GH/FR/DL amount to the same medieval/tolkien fantasy standard so i'd pick just one. I'd throw in Spelljammer as a steampunk fantasy, as presented a few years back in Dungeon NOT the original. I'd also throw in a primative world setting, like Hollow world to make up the five.
Game balance wouldn't be nearly so much an issue as trying to loyally represent what each race, class, creature and item should really be like within this fantasy world--and then bend the mechanics to reflect this fluff as closely as possible. Make the crunch serve the fluff!
This is absolulty how it should workchuck out what doesn't fit.
-What would you do if 4th ed. was yours to design?
I'd probably make character creation more free-form, sort of a hybrid between Ars Magica and HERO. I think I'd keep levels, but allow the players to choose to concentrate on combat, skills/skill-tricks, or spellcasting at each level. The Generic Classes in UA (also in the SRD) are a good basis for this concept. The abilities that the classes can choose should not be restricted by class, but be more like feats and feat chains.
As far as races go, I'd give some "standard" fantasy races and some guidelines on creating/modifying races for specific campaigns. I think a thumbnail sketch of a few of the already developed settings (Eberron, Forgotten Relams, Greyhawk, etc.) would be a good idea, also. If the "points of light" is going to be the standard setting concept, at least give DM's the tools to actually develop a few of those points to their taste.
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One thing I liked about OD&D was how as you progressed from Basic-Expert-Companion-Master-Immortal the needs of the game changed as well. The basic gist was Dungeon-Wilderness-Nation Building-Legacy Building-World Building respectively. The game moved from Kill X and Take it's stuff to something more profound. I personally liked that aspect.
What I dislike mostly about 3E is its explicit reliance on Kill X and take its stuff across all levels.
I would like to see the needs of the game change. I was initially hopeful about 4E and their statement that there would be "tiers" with different play styles. Turns out the tiers are Kill X and take its stuff but with a different feel (Heroic, Super-heroic, epic) and thats pretty sad.
MMO's have a name for this: It's called the "Grind". I'd like to see roleplaying brought back.
To my mind, there is so little difference between the first three setting that, for all intents and purposes GH/FR/DL amount to the same medieval/tolkien fantasy standard so i'd pick just one. I'd throw in Spelljammer as a steampunk fantasy, as presented a few years back in Dungeon NOT the original. I'd also throw in a primative world setting, like Hollow world to make up the five
There is little difference between FR/GH and Dragonlance? Wow, me thinks you've been hitting something pretty hard there man.
I always saw Forgotten Realms as a Greyhawk clone, hell look at the maps of Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms. The Moonsea is The Nyr Dyv, the sea of Fallen Stars falls into the The Woolly Bay, Sea Gearnat,Relmor Bay And Azure Sea. Vesve forest=High Forest etc etc....
There is little difference between FR/GH and Dragonlance? Wow, me thinks you've been hitting something pretty hard there man.
Just MHO, Jim.
GH/FR are middle earth with clerics, except that DL takes them back out.They all have a "gandalf" - Mordenkainen, Elminster, Fizban. DL and FR have orders of powerful fighters/wizards etc (Knights of Solamnia/harpers) sworn to hold back the darkness and councils of powerful magic users who seem split between fighting or joining with the forces of evil.
Don't get me wrong, this is not a bad thing, but it is Tolkienesqe and not the only fantasy world possible just the most prevelant. It does lend itself to ease of play but it also ignores campaigns influenced by (for example) Westeros, The Young Kingdoms, Barsoom, The Hyborian age or even Athas.
What would you do if 4th ed. was yours to design?
I'd hand it back and tell them they wouldn't like the changes I'd make to it.
I would have gone for evolution not revolution.
1) Fix the "broken" stuff like grapple and turning rules. Make it a 3.75 edition.
2) By all means add 10 levels but they should be in addition to the 20 and the time it takes to climb the levels not crammed into the same time. I mean they should be seen as a way of allowing character development over a longer period not designed to ensure rapid reward by leveling all the time. In essence it's not that the 20 we have are broken its that over level 20 it is.
3) I would produce each setting as an integrated rules book and setting in addition to the basic non setting based rules. Or to put it another way. the 3 core books designed for Home Brew, Greyhawk, Forgotten Relams etc but in the Forgotten Realms books the world details will be the examples used. Feats, Skills and Spells will refer to that game world. The MM for each setting would have world specific monsters in addition to the core ones.
4) Put the spells back into Arcane and Divine chapters. It was easier to work out for new players.
5) Focus for future products on Adventures rather than splat books. Add these after the edition is up and running. Its not the fact that computer games are better than D&D that puts off younger players its the fact there are a million books and rules to read and its easier to flip a switch and press buttons.
6) Dont waste money on Online virtual tabletops. If RPG payers wanted computer based adventures they would play WoW. It misses the point of getting together as a social event. Instead of accepting that we need Web interfaces to get disparate players together invest the money in recruiting and showing new players the game. Imagine if this were a sport. No one would say "well younger people play sports games on the Playstation so we should put our sport online so the declining numbers can still play". Once there are more players the need for an online tabletop has gone.
7) Stop flooding the market with 2-3 books a month. Lets have 1 book every month and cut the production costs. The same number of people could be well employed making the products being published higher quality.
9) Suppliment the offering with books and items aimed at enhancing the experience. Item cards are a great example.
I'm sure there's more but I doubt people read really long posts so I'll stop now.
I guess I feel that the designers have the right idea to make D&D grow in player numbers I just wish they would focus on what makes the game so unique rather than accepting that Computer games can't be beaten.
Elcian
Keep chaotic evil succubus. No warforge until Ebberon campaign setting. I would have them work on the mechanics, and less on the generic D&D campaign. Keep to the traditions of D&D lore.
If I were doing 4.0 . . . .
My PC race list would be dwarf, elf, gnome, half-elf, half-orc, halfling, and human. My PC class list would be assassin, bard, cleric, druid, fighter, illusionist, monk, paladin, ranger, thief, and wizard. I would have eighteen Inner Planes and seventeen Outer Planes. Succubi would be demons, and eladrin would be CG inhabitants of the outer plane of Olympus. Gods wouldn't appear in any of the core rules.
To my mind, there is so little difference between the first three setting that, for all intents and purposes GH/FR/DL amount to the same medieval/tolkien fantasy standard so i'd pick just one. I'd throw in Spelljammer as a steampunk fantasy, as presented a few years back in Dungeon NOT the original. I'd also throw in a primative world setting, like Hollow world to make up the five.
I'd argue that the nuances of the settings is the kind of thing that comes from playing in a game of it with people who love it. Not to say they are as different from each other than any one of them is from Spelljammer or Dark Sun--but they do have their own unique flavors.
I would put Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk and Dragonlance in because they are so beloved by their fans. I also think they are the closest to the baseline D&D experience. Most games of D&D run by people tend to feel more like the above mentioned games--even if the games are homebrew. I think there's a reason for that. I think these games play truest to the spirit of the D&D game. MHO is that by including a nice range of games that are the heart of the game with a couple of games that are a bit more unique it would give people a bit of a love for the classic settings. It would let them know what "typical" D&D feels like.
Mind you, some of my favorite settings are the more outre stuff like Dark Sun and Spelljammer. I just think it would be nice to give folks a crash course on the Big Three settings as well.
...My PC class list would be assassin, bard, cleric, druid, fighter, illusionist, monk, paladin, ranger, thief, and wizard. I would have eighteen Inner Planes and seventeen Outer Planes....
I like the idea of assassin as a base class. Heck I think two-thirds of the "prestige" classes really would have worked a lot better as base classes to tell you the truth.
I'd be interested in how you'd get 18 Inner Planes. I mean you have Positive, Negative, Earth, Water, Fire, Earth...then my recollections get foggy but it's like Dust, Ooze, Lightning, Radiance, Magma...and that just barely breaks half. That would be a lot of elemental planes.