Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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My biggest concern is: How do they determine which monsters are iconic?
Orcs are a no brainer, but there are some monsters that are more heavily used by some groups than others. For example, I use a lot of undead and lycanthropes in my campaigns. I'd hate to buy into 4e, then get the MM and find out the only undead that made it into the book were skeletons and zombies. OR, even worse, the only lycanthrope was the werewolf. No offense, Heathy, but I need wererats for my lower level parties...
My biggest concern, of course, is not having access to enough monsters (or the right monsters) for me to play my style of game.
The same goes for the speculation regarding the content of the PHB1. I've got one player who is ALWAYS a monk. What happens if the monk is passed over with the initial offering?
Guess I'll just wait and see (And keep my fingers crossed...)
Well, failing that, the back up plan is to give you a cute puppy, wait for you to fall in love with it, and then cook it up in some chili and trick you into eating it.
I wish them luck in trying to find mine. I'm pretty sure that spot may no longer exist after Hurricane Katrina. Still, the effort would make me angry...they wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
"I knew my best friends Stan and Kyle would betray me. Let me taste your tears... mmm they taste soo sweet."
Scott Tenorman Must Die
I like the new approach to monsters.
I don't like the "every book is core" angle. I don't think it jibes with how and why most people buy game books, and thus comes off crass.
I love these podcasts.
With each new one that comes out, the better I feel about not buying 4E.
Thanks, WotC!
Keep it up!
I guess they realized that the only way anyone will buy a book containing the "flamestrike with a suit of armor on it" Flame Archon and similar monsters designed by toy designers and marketing executives is if they package it with stuff that has withstood the test of time. It's a brilliant marketing scheme, of course. But I kind of liked the idea that additional books could be purchased if, and only if, I thought they were interesting enough. Now one must buy them or make up their own iteration of the monsters they actually want. Collectible $30 books! AWESOME!
I don't like the "every book is core" angle. I don't think it jibes with how and why most people buy game books, and thus comes off crass.
But many people do buy a core set and nothing else. Make it hard to play without buying extra books, and many won't buy.
Like me.
Just my two cents :)
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Now one must buy them or make up their own iteration of the monsters they actually want. Collectible $30 books! AWESOME!
$30?!? Don't be naive! $35-40 will probably be more like it and my guess is that $40 will be the standard going rate. Gotta Catch Em All! 3-4 books a month, $40 a pop, you have to buy all if you want the standard stuff, seems to really be inline with what the consumer wants. I love the idea that I am nothing more than a money dispensing machine for WotC to try to continue harvesting from.
My question is how much of this ridiculousness does it take to get it through people's heads that they are not being marketed to but that they are victims of a marketing rape.I honestly wouldn't expect every iconic monster to be in the first MM, but to deliberately ration out how many to put into each book is just a bastard thing to do to the game. "Every book core"? WotC sucks. I wouldn't mind paying for my hobby if I didn't see the blatantly obvious lack of care for us consumers and the balancing of quality issues to force as much profit as possible.
Evil.
FH
The only way I would buy yearly "core" books is if the new products were genre/world/campaign books. Give me a FR players handbook, a Eberron DM guide, a Dragonlance monster manual, a Planescape, Darksun, etc etc. I have esp enjoyed licensed products over the (3rd edition)years. I would love to see WoTC give me a Dune Players handbook or Vampire Slayer Manual of Monsters. Otherwise, I'm buying the first three 4E books and probably turn my back on WoTC forever.
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Ahem... I've avoided all of the podcasts... waste of time... until this one...
I just finished vomiting. (That's the Kneejerk reaction talking).
::deep sigh::
I don't have a problem with spreading out the classic monsters over multiple Monster Manuals. I'm going to be saddened by it, but that's okay, I could wait for monsters.
I do, however, have an issue with completely removing one entire group of "good celestial beings" That are from Elysium, not Bytopia (the web page itself, in the notes states this, not Noonan). I also feel that laughing about them is a little more than condescending, especially when added to "I'm sure I just offended planescape fans" or somesuch. That seems as if none of the lore, none of the hard work, nothing was worth it for 3 editions of the game. I find that disheartening at best, downright insulting at second-to worst (there is a worse step than this).
We'll just say I have very strong words for what they are doing to the Planes, the Forgotten Realms, MWP and Dragonlance, the dissolution of 2 great magazines, and what they did to Greyhawk. None of them are nice.
The people writing don't seem to me to be writing for a moderately intelligent crowd (they are using language I wouldn't consider, i.e. bullet in the head??). It looks to me as if they are writing for a magazine written by Beavis and b@~#-head. What's sad is that I'm TRYING to listen, TRYING to believe this is going to be better. In my heart, I don't believe it will. There's just too much spin, and not enough substance or fact in it yet.
/d
I woudn't get too worked up about what they say - they are gamers, and probably most of what they talk about is drivel. (Ever considered recording one of your session for posterity? No? There's probably a reason (well, lot's, but the drivel factor would be high on the list) for that.) While this was a podcast for public consumption, they were probably chatting in a way that 'gamers who are also work colleagues that work in the gaming industry' would talk. So the "bullet in the head" comment was off the cuff and probably not terribly serious (it may indicate the particular speaker's attitude, but I doubt represents policy and probably does not bear deep analysis). This wasn't a studied memorandum.
What they do, on the other hand, is more of an issue. Beside the (rather odd) plan to issue the core monsters over a series of supplements (which may or may not be true - the MM1 sounds it might be a very big book, are they (almost) all going to be new? - and to some extent it is actually what they have done in 3.0/3.5 anyway) my main concern is the 'baby out with the bathwater' attitude, almost like a Cambodian 'Year 0' for D&D where the revolution is total.
That said, I suspect they are emphasising the changes rather than the elements of continuity - after all, if they said, "Well, 4.0 is like 3.5 in the main, but tweaked a little," absolutely no one would be interested, especially after 3.5 v 3.0.
I've been noticing that the boards here have kinda reflect the stages of grief. Anyone else see that?
Some researchers such as Dr. Elisabeth Kübler-Ross and others have posited sequential stages including denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance, which are commonly referred to as the "grief cycle".
Just a thought. I know I'm at the stage of acceptance where I accept that WotC sucks in their treatment of their fans, and I accept that even if 4E is so fun that it leads to nirvana I'm not buying their books for at least 1-1.5 (or more) years after 4E's release. By that time I'll know if I want it or not (and see if 5E is on the way). Funny thing is I just finished buying 12 books for my 3.5 game. Now WotC can accept that other game companies are going to receive my cash.
Deal with it.
I've been noticing that the boards here have kinda reflect the stages of grief. Anyone else see that?
Some researchers such as Dr. Elisabeth Kübler-Ross and others have posited sequential stages including denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance, which are commonly referred to as the "grief cycle".
Just a thought. I know I'm at the stage of acceptance where I accept that WotC sucks in their treatment of their fans, and I accept that even if 4E is so fun that it leads to nirvana I'm not buying their books for at least 1-1.5 (or more) years after 4E's release. By that time I'll know if I want it or not (and see if 5E is on the way). Funny thing is I just finished buying 12 books for my 3.5 game. Now WotC can accept that other game companies are going to receive my cash.
Deal with it.
Your reaction (below the wiki quote) is quite good.
My five stages started with acceptance, then anger as things have unfolded (I despise their marketing). Perhaps, just perhaps, they should just shut their mouths and make the best darn game they can.
/d