THERE! :) Sorry so long. Long day at work tomorrow as well, might be late again. ;P
See you all tomorrow!
Ooh, that will be me +1ing the cold iron sword.
Ooh, that will be me +1ing the cold iron sword.
Can we do +1's to our weapons at 4th level...or just for armor?
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Ahhh...remember the good old days on page 7?
In terms of the level-up, any specifics on hit points? Are we rolling? Taking average hp?Roll, then take at least half the die size. So if you roll d6 and roll a 1, 2, or 3, your result is "3"; but if you roll more than 3, you keep your result.
I stand corrected! So, 4 more hp for Vesh next level.
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We need a level-up primer.
Actually, a campaign primer would be more useful, so I created one. <LINK>
It's basically a collection of the assorted house rules we created, collected in one place in a very rough fashion. Mostly, I wanted to dump all that information on one webpage, to alleviate asking JSL the same questions every time I level-up or use craft points.
Please don't post comments over on that thread, I'd like to keep it as "clean" a copy as possible to keep it a viable reference--I'd rather take comment/suggestions here.
At some point, I could see going back through and editing the entries so that they do not read like posts. We could create a version 1.5 or something. Perhaps with all my free time...
Santinj@ -- great work on the house rules thread. I still ask JSL the same questions over and over again, but maybe this will help cut down on that.
I do wish there were some way to make posts more manageable. Between the two threads, we have over 80 pages of posts and it would be nice to have some kind of index or way to find old clues faster.
In response to Zieke's question --
I don't have time to RP right now, and I'd like to know if there's anything more to this room. (So kind of waiting for JSL, too, plus I have a super-busy day going on right now -- and I'm not even working!) I think our priorities are:
1) Double-check to make sure the room is secure and we aren't missing anything (clues, loot, etc.).
2) Finish checking the tunnels beyond the study.
3) Purify the shrine room (Salome has the proper equipment on hand). We could possibly split up for a time to get it done faster.
I also have to decide what Salome thinks of Zieke calling her "sister." :)
Sant~ Good job on the 'House Rules' Thread!
I had started to compile all of the 'magic item' rules into one document, but haven't gotten around to editing it,... (YET!)
I like it! Thanks for the reference work! :)
What to do with all my craft points? I must have 14 or so now! I suppose I could buy stat increases, or feats. Prob is i can't enchant anything. Is there a way to get someone else to enchant it and I spend the craft points?
In response to Zieke's question -- I don't have time to RP right now, and I'd like to know if there's anything more to this room. (So kind of waiting for JSL...
Yeah, same here. Just trying to provide filler dialogue between now and then.
1) Double-check to make sure the room is secure and we aren't missing anything (clues, loot, etc.).
Zieke is kind of counting on everyone else's eagerness for clue-hunting. Salome, Sli, Vesh (and Mal?) were all implied to be looking around. So rather than add to that mix, Zieke is kind of doing a sentry watch thing while all of that activity goes on around him.
2) Finish checking the tunnels beyond the study.
Were there more tunnels? I honestly couldn't remember any additional exits or passageways that we hadn't explored yet.
3) Purify the shrine room (Salome has the proper equipment on hand). We could possibly split up for a time to get it done faster.
Until we're sure we've cleared all the mobile threats, I wouldn't recommend splitting up yet. This place has already served up close-calls and that's when we were all still together. Plus, even if we do clear everything, the shrine has the ability to turn us against one another. And Zieke's already got his eye on Vesh, so I'm sure he wouldn't be letting the boy out of his sight...whether that's while accompanying Salome back to the shrine...or allowing him to venture off "alone" with half the rest of the party.
I also have to decide what Salome thinks of Zieke calling her "sister." :)
That one just came to me as I was free-writing Zieke's response to Ehlissa. It just seemed like a natural fit to call Salome, sister. She looks and dresses (and often acts) like I imagine a Catholic nun might. And I know that's not the Qadiran faith or cultural analogue Paizo was going for with that religion, but Sister Salome has great alliteration. You've got that thing going where you and Vesh sort of see one another as a sister/brother type of relationship. Salome and Zieke are actually the closest in age than any other party members. Zieke likes to use petnames as they put him at ease in social situations. So all of that just fit. It'll be interesting how Salome chooses to interpret it... :-D
--Neil
Hey Vesh, Putting Arrow mind into your bow is a great idea, but isn't that one of the ones you can cast as a swift action?
One suggestion I would make is to consider putting True Strike into your bow, or your gloves, or even add it to your amulet! It is one of the rare useful spells that never gains power when cast it at higher levels, so you only NEED to cast it at CL 1! Then the only additions/improvements you might want to make to it would be 2 or more times a day, and improving it to a swift(Immediate?) action!
Just a thought from the guy who spends WAY too much time thinking about these things! :)
Another thought I have is a use for the two Imp's wings that I picked up!
Normally I would say I would just boil them and make each one a potion or something, BUuuuuuuut,... ;)
With the current House rules allowing us to create/make/enchant (Whatever it's going to be called eventually!) I suggest the following,
With Vesh's ability to Drain the abilities of creatures, I think we have a good reason game-wise for mystically preparing and then draining the innate ability of the Imp from its wings and create actual items from them! I originally thought a couple of amulets of Protection from fire or similar would be nice, but then realized that Vesh could probably benefit from an item that could grant Invisibility!?!
So, Hey mr JSL! What would the cost be for an item that could cast Invisibility 1/Day, (2nd lvl spell at CL 3) ?
And what is the cheapest/ easiest Item or spell that could grant protection from fire?
:)
NSpicer, if you have some ideas for the sword, let me know and I'll tell you if they are possible. That is probably easier than me trying to figure out what is possible. Generally speaking, you are limited to 1st level spell-like effects and would not be able to make it properly "magical". One thing you can do at 4th is make +1 armor and shields since they are level 4 items in the MIC. Also note, I don't require items to be +1 to receive additional magical effects, so if there is a +1 equivalent armor power, that is also fair game.
Some ideas I've been pondering...
1) Simply make the sword a +1 longsword...what's that entail?
2) Imbue the sword with an invokable 1/day shield of faith (CL 1st, +2 AC) ability in case Zieke wants to forego his shield at some point and fight two-handed or simply one-handed in a duel fashion.
3) Imbue the sword with either a constant or 1/day ability that would grant the same effect as the Improved Disarm or Improved Sunder feats. Of course, the prerequsite for both those feats would have to be met by the wielder before they could take advantage of the ability. Zieke has them already.
4) Imbue the sword with an invokable 1/day command that can be issued against a single target. Kind of a martial presence ability, but useful for other things, too.
5) Imbue the sword with an invokable 1/day corrosive grasp (from the Spell Compendium) to cause an extra 1d8 acid damage on a single successful hit.
6) Imbue the sword with an invokable 1/day critical strike (also from the Spell Compendium) to grant +1d6 damage, doubled threat range, and +4 on attack rolls to confirm critical threats...for 1 round. This one is potentially deadly given that the sword already mimics a lot of that by granting an extra +1d6 damage on criticals and already has a threat range of 18-20. Doubling that and stacking on another +1d6 damage seems a bit over the top to me.
7) Imbue the sword with an invokable 1/day lesser vigor to assist its wielder with recovering quickly from a particular battle or bring him back from negatives if he falls in battle.
Thoughts? I kind of favor the last one at the moment...
--Neil
I also have to decide what Salome thinks of Zieke calling her "sister."
That one just came to me as I was free-writing Zieke's response to Ehlissa. It just seemed like a natural fit to call Salome, sister. She looks and dresses (and often acts) like I imagine a Catholic nun might. And I know that's not the Qadiran faith or cultural analogue Paizo was...
A nun, huh? I hadn't thought of that. I don't think that Salome is bound by any vows of celibacy, but she is dedicated to a higher power.
"Ziq naz-Sharif,"...
Thanks JSL!
One more question,
If i use the large wing bone of the Quasit (Or if you decide I have to use both and bind them together) Using that as the basis for a magic wand, :)
According to Sant's campaign rules Notes page, A wand of a 1st lvl spell is item lvl 3. SO- what I want is a wand of 'Orb of Cold-Minor' (made without the craft wand feat, so 1st lvl spell, CL 1, using the Imp's wing bones for the wand if possible)
Pretty soon (NEXT scenario I'll guess!) we'll need to figure out the cost of improving an existing item. (Either adding abilities to an existing item, or Improving a 1/day item to 2 or 3/day, etc,) Because NSpicer came up with a good list of ideas he obviously wants to try, and I have been simmering the thought of making my brooch or a bracelet a multi-use defense item!
EDIT- Cross posted this as you were posting the above! Nevermind, and thank you! ;)
Dreamer- No criticism or comments (Other than the usual smart-aleck ones!) from me! You are following in the footsteps of the great JRR Tolkien, who spent as much time (YEARS!) developing the languages of Middle Earth as he did Writing the stories about it! :)
You are following in the footsteps of the great JRR Tolkien, who spent as much time (YEARS!) developing the languages of Middle Earth as he did Writing the stories about it! :)
Exactly my point. I simply don't have that kind of time. So, unlike Tolkien, I cheat and improvise. (So far, I don't think I've done a half-bad job!)
Now, if I could find a good way to cheat and improvise this whole level-up business, I'd be in good shape!
Hehe, yeah, I love seeing all the possible combinations as you climb in levels, but actually DOING the paperwork,... NOT my favorite part!
Just FINALLY got done with what I hope is an adequate response to Salome's flurry of words! I do have one question though,...
When did Slidell give Salome the impression that he was willing to sacrifice another for his gain? Is this something that you saw, or an impression that Salome received?
I ask Because I've been playing Sli as many things, but I can't remember giving that impression. And that's not where I've planned on heading him, so I'd like to know so I can steer it in the right direction! Thanks!
When did Slidell give Salome the impression that he was willing to sacrifice another for his gain? Is this something that you saw, or an impression that Salome received?
I ask Because I've been playing Sli as many things, but I can't remember giving that impression. And that's not where I've planned on heading him, so I'd like to know so I can steer it in the right direction! Thanks!
Obviously, she's not yelling at you. Salome is still very angry about Slidell's previous antics in the runewell, putting everyone else in danger so he could get Veran back in what she views as the stupidest way possible, as well as his penchant for getting into trouble and general obliviousness. She doesn't trust how he jumps to Conclusions , let alone the majority of conclusions he reaches, and now this sudden cry for keeping the caves open when he knew full well when we entered (1) that the party was being timed, (2) the town guard was under orders to brick it up (not the decision of anyone in the party, nor in their power to change), (3) the monstrous threats contained herein would completely overwhelm the town's capacity to defend itself, and (4) at this point, the risk far outweighs the benefit because there is no way to inspect the whole underground complex, let alone secure it, within the given time constraints.
Had she any patience for Slidell before (she never did; see their first meeting), it is completely gone now after his latest tantrum.
Player-to-player, we're fine. IC, Salome sees Slidell as motivated by pure, childish selfishness, and honestly believes that someone is going to be seriously hurt as a result.
Heh, ok, THAT I understand!
Cool, just checking! ;P
The sad thing, while that's not what I'm going for, Salome kind of has a point,... He IS going to get somebody killed. Of course, the way he's going, it will probably be HIMSELF! :)
Ah the joys of playing Insane Geniuses! (Or is that Genius Insanes?) ;P
EDIT- Actually, I suppose Salome IS right, Sli IS childish, but not (usually, we all have our moments) in a selfish way. But in the way that he IS single minded and easily distracted. He's pretty much a big kid playing with the stuff that binds the universe together! He has the best of intentions, and (so far) no evil bones in his body. (See his background, he doesn't hold a grudge, but he DOES believe in payback!)
But, what's that they say about the road to hell? Paved with good intentions? I can definitely See me writing him into a corner regarding a choice between whether or not to use some powerful item they have discovered.
Actually, Sli is upset for another reason. I was reading another thread, and saw mention of a mage playing this module who moved into the facility after they cleaned it out! I was thinking this is EXACTLY the sort of thing that Sli would do! Set up camp right on the doorstep of the potentially dangerous device in order to study it better! :)
So, he's basically having the door slammed on his face before he can even get his foot in the door! (So to speak!) :)
EDIT- Actually, I suppose Salome IS right, Sli IS childish, but not (usually, we all have our moments) in a selfish way. But in the way that he IS single minded and easily distracted. He's pretty much a big kid playing with the stuff that binds the universe together! He has the best of intentions, and (so far) no evil bones in his body.
Interesting you say that. Certainly all the characters have skeletons in their closets and complicated pasts. Malcolm and Vesh in particular have lived their lives on the shadier side of society. But a couple of flashes of Slidell's dark side make me wonder if he is perhaps the most vulnerable of the group when it comes to the enticings of the Dark Arts and the potential power of evil.
Just a thought.
OK, another (much sillier) thought. If Slidell were to concoct a potion out of the quasit's wings, he potentially could have an evil bone in his body. If just wouldn't be his bone. :)
EDIT -- Apologies for forgetting to change my "Post As" selection in the game thread. This is what happens when I write too much when I'm tired. By the time I notice the mistake, it's too late to edit!
EDIT- ,...He has the best of intentions, and (so far) no evil bones in his body.Interesting you say that. Certainly all the characters have skeletons in their closets and complicated pasts. Malcolm and Vesh in particular have lived their lives on the shadier side of society. But a couple of flashes of Slidell's dark side make me wonder if he is perhaps the most vulnerable of the group when it comes to the enticings of the Dark Arts and the potential power of evil.
Just a thought.
Ok, GOOD, Then I AM playing him right! ;)
I haven't hammered out all the fine print yet, but that's pretty much what I am aiming for!OK, another (much sillier) thought. If Slidell were to concoct a potion out of the quasit's wings, he potentially could have an evil bone in his body. If just wouldn't be his bone. :)
OUCH! Ok, leave the puns to the professionals! :D
Seriously, your not supposed to be making me laugh when I'm SUPPOSED to be sleeping! ;)Nighters!
To NSpicer --
During her speech about the proper way to address a Qadiran lady, Salome was (inwardly) laughing the whole time. Is she too serious? Or does everyone else just assume that since she's religious, she should be taken seriously at all times? :)
During her speech about the proper way to address a Qadiran lady, Salome was (inwardly) laughing the whole time. Is she too serious? Or does everyone else just assume that since she's religious, she should be taken seriously at all times? :)
I (the player) don't perceive her to be too serious. But Zieke (the character) would. And I get the sense that maybe some of the other characters (Slidell, certainly) would. But don't take that as a negative. We need different personalities in the group, and I like Salome's serious side. It makes it all the more relevant when she drops the seriousness (like dancing with Vesh, conversing with the hunchback at the creek, etc.) to show a different side of herself.
When I described Salome as the "mother" of the group, I meant that for several different reasons. But one of them is because she's the wisest and knows that it's important to be serious sometimes, especially when crawling about in unexplored ruins encountering one threat after another. Thus, when Slidell thinks and acts kind of flippantly (maybe too strong a term?), it's good to see Salome balance him out.
It's kind of interesting though that both you and Rags have apparently meant to portray Slidell and Salome as a bit less of what some of us perceive about them. In other words, is Sli really that selfish? Not as much to how Rags thought he was playing him, but clearly he came across sometimes that way in how you've chosen to have Salome perceive him.
It's the same deal with how I've chosen to have Zieke perceive Salome and her seriousness at one time or another. And it's all good, I think, from a character development standpoint. If some part of Salome did happen to be grounded in sustaining and clinging to strict traditions from her homeland (i.e., her veil, her use of Qadiran terminology rather than learning and incorporating the local terms for things, her stance on playful nicknames, etc.)...I think that's great! Because then it leaves an opening for the day when she becomes close enough with all her friends in the party that she dispenses with a good deal of it. Not all at once, of course. But one little chip at a time makes her development as a character come off as even more endearing to the reader.
Or at least, that's how I look at trying to mold and shape Zieke. I wanted him to be gruff, demanding, cocky and condescending when all of you first encountered him. He had a chip on his shoulder and a lot to prove (to himself more than all of you). But over time, I intend to soften those hard edges as a result of interacting with all of you. And the greatest agent for evoking that change in him is...Salome. She has his respect enough that he will change his behavior to gain her approval and support...something that Ehlissa would have a lot harder time obtaining. ;-)
I suspect Vesh is going to impact Zieke as well. Slidell will in different ways. Ehlissa certainly can too but probably more towards the end of the adventure when he shows a huge amount of loyalty and protectiveness towards her (and everyone else) despite any dysfuntional arguing, teasing, or harrassing that occurs throughout the adventure.
Anyway, sorry for the long exposition there. I just thought it might be useful to understand where I'm coming from in how and why I portray Zieke a certain way.
--Neil
I found it interesting to note that Zieke considers himself the outsider, (according to his 'maybe he'll listen to one of his own' internal comment) but Salome only recently started thinking of herself as 'associated' with the group, and doesn't really consider herself a part of it, yet. (Though she's obviously thinking about it very hard)
Very interesting! Very good reading and roleplaying!
I found it interesting to note that Zieke considers himself the outsider, (according to his 'maybe he'll listen to one of his own' internal comment) but Salome only recently started thinking of herself as 'associated' with the group, and doesn't really consider herself a part of it, yet. (Though she's obviously thinking about it very hard)
To Zieke, she's a fixture in your group...not because he knows anything about how long she's been among you. But basically because of how well-respected her opinion tends to be. And he senses the aura of leadership about her. Until one of you act like she's an outsider, he won't buy the notion that she is one. He, on the other hand, certainly feels as such...though more forays like this one could change that.
--Neil
I can see how he sees that. I just thought it was an interesting juxtaposition! :)
I was originally leading Sli down the path of 'Poor Vesh. Let's take the kid under our wing and train him in the ways of the Force! Er, Um,... Wizardry!' But after recent events, He will probably re-think that a little bit! ;)
I will hopefully be able to post this afternoon/evening.
No problem @JSL~ (RL is kicking my hinie too!) I'm just glad your sticking with us! :D
See you tonite! ;)
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I will hopefully be able to post this afternoon/evening.No problem @JSL~ (RL is kicking my hinie too!) I'm just glad your sticking with us! :D
See you tonite! ;)
Ditto. I am, once again, in Eastern Oregon, so once I leave this Starbucks, it'll be kaput posting-wise until I hit PDX tonight for my two hour break. La Grande here I come! And Elgin, Imbler, and Union...
Should make for a pretty drive actually!
Will check-in tonight.
EDIT: Are we resuming the weekly XP awards at 75xp (soon to be 100xp) per week? If so, we need to add some xp as of yesterday. I also think it is reasonable to resume this once we're done down here return to the surface for our (duh,duh,duh) extended rest.
BTW, I notice that JSL sprinkles 4E terms into our 3.5 PbP here. It's funny b/c I was listening to a Podcast where Bill Slavicsek (I am not stopping to check the spelling on his name) takes the two guys from Penny Arcade through H1. Even he mixes up "Attacks of Opportunity" with "Opportunity Attacks."
As an aside, I am really, really warming to the new 4E ruleset. As I said before, the readability is compromised at first. But when you start to dig a little, you start to see how cool some things are, how much better the level progressions are, and how much smoother things seem to be (I won't claim that they're easier until I run or play the game). It reminds me more of OD&D every time I crack the books. They've cut down on so much redundant/never used stuff--the equipment section is pared down and practical rather than cluttered with stuff no one uses.
My previous enthusiasm for the PFRPG is waning to the point where I will stick with my Pathfinder Subscription through the next AP (I want to see the Riddleport stuff), but then I think I'm done. I still want the Campaign Hardcover, but I may skip the hardcover PFRPG rulebook altogether. We'll see! I never expected my about-face, though.
4E is so much easier to run and book-keep. And the monsters are more fun to play as well.
I'm all for Santinj@ keeping track of the loot (and XP!). You seem to have a good handle on this stuff. (I'm too busy keeping track of my licensing hours to hold any extra numbers in my head.) Also, it makes sense IC, in that a roguish type would be more likely to notice and lift a valuable item than, say, a cleric with a strict moral compass and little knowledge of worldly value.
My next post will be pretty late tonight, too. And I have to come up with some kind of ceremony for this shrine purification. All I know so far is it has to involve silver powder, holy water, and a scroll.
"Let's take a look at our handy-dandy notebook... The clues are silver powder, holy water, and a scroll. What could Blue be doing with silver powder, holy water, and a scroll? A bubble bath? No. Writing a shiny letter? No. What? What's that? A purification ceremony to rid an ancient shrine of its evil aura and hallucinogenic potion? Why, that's right! Good for you! You're so smart!" (Fade to singing.)
We're more of a Bob The Builder crowd 'round these parts. "There's a shrine of Lamashtu tainting Sandpoint? Can we fix it? Yes we can!
What kind of evil machine built the shrine in the first place? :)
We're more of a Bob The Builder crowd 'round these parts. "There's a shrine of Lamashtu tainting Sandpoint? Can we fix it? Yes we can!
** spoiler omitted **
OMG! LOL! My kids are still looking at Daddy funny. I don't usually burst out laughing while I'm sitting at the PC!
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I've got to get to my gate, so I'll post a more thorough response tomorrow or the next day. I would definitely stay in the group no matter what rules set we use. I think many in the group have expressed a reluctance or disinterest to switching to 4E, and my major concern would be losing people.
I also don't dislike 3.5. I'll probably keep playing it in some fashion, combining some things that I like in the PFRPG alpha (and perhaps the upcoming beta), but keeping it mostly the same.
Re: a 4E Vesh. I'm willing to experiment. I'd also be willing to bump him off for theatric reasons and play another character...his twin perhaps? Let me think about it some more.
I'm fine with holding off on the weekly XP award for the rest of this module. We are already at the 'Max' for the module, and I don't want Master JSL~ having to tweak the next modules (If we can convince him to keep going!) any more than he already does! I read somewhere that our characters should be almost to 15th lvl (if not AT 15th lvl!) by the end of the series. I shudder to think of the nightmare for our brave GM (and the nightmares he might give US!)if he has to modify the stats of the BBEG at the end by 5 levels because we're all lvl 20! :)
As far as switching to 4E,...
(Somewhere, I can hear a can opener,...)
I'll be as brief as I can, I swear! ;)
Honestly, My 1st reaction is not a happy one. And not ALL of it is due to my personal apathy for 4E.
-I haven't gotten to play very many characters past low levels. SO I haven't spent much time on what I might do with my PC 's at higher lvls. But Here I have a character I enjoy playing immensely, (MOre than a little bit due to the people I get to play with!) that has the potential (Again, if we can convince our Dynamic DM to to keep coming along with us for the ride!) to reach 'High level' play, and I have spent a LOT of time planning out what I want to do with him and the 'Ultimate Magus' PRC!
-My personal plan is to stick with my 3.0 & 3.5 Ed books, and the PFRPG. (Once I can afford it!) It still needs some tweaking, but I like where they are going with it.
-Now, I have not played 4E, not even bought the books. And at this point I do not intend to. (Though that may change, One of my old college buddies wants to get us all back together to play using the still-awaited online tools from WotC.) Because EVERYthing that I read up until it's release (published by WotC, not reading reviews by others) I absolutely disliked. EVERY change they announced they were making made me gasp in surprise or fuss out loud. Without exception. (OK, maybe one exception. At-will powers for Mages sound kinda cool.[But we have feats for that] And I Haven't read the Dragonborn article yet, I'll check it out.)
-Now, I would like to play it once or twice, to see what it has actually become. I have played many MANY game systems over the years, and I haven't found one that I 'hated'. (A few I probably won't pick up again, but never hated.) I seriously doubt that I will 'Hate' the system as an RPG. I just don't think I will ever think of it as 'D&D'.
-IF we switch to 4E,... I would have to think about it. I would hate to give up playing with such a varied, interesting and fun group! But I also cannot see switching Sli to a 4E version that basically will never be able to duplicate what I am currently enjoying and have envisioned.
-Now, IF we switch, whether by Dm decree, or group vote, as above, I would hate to leave. (Or be 'voted off the Island!' Heh,) So I would probably stay, but would have an easier time if we started new characters, because switching Sli would feel, as JSL put it, 'I woke up and everything was different!'
In short (TOO LATE!) I ain't planning on going anywhere anytime soon! (Sorry, but your all going to have to put up with me for a while yet!) But if we switch, I would have a hard time continuing to play Sli. (Not acting-wise, whether 'goofy Dr who wannabe' or 'Harry Dresden-tough guy with a wand' I tend to enjoy playing all my casters about the same!) But I'm afraid it might not 'feel right' since I've been playing him for almost a year now.
Then again, I reserve the right to retract any and all above statements once I have actually read the 4E rules and played them! ;)
(Sigh,...) so much for short,... ;P
Re: Switching rule systems mid-campaign
I may be making a heretical statement here, but I still have no opinion one way or the other about 3.0, 3.5, 3.Paizo, or 4e. To me, "D&D" is one large, multi-tentacled entity that encompasses all previous forms of D&D, all those independent and TV/movie/book/comic-based d20 games, Paizo stuff and anything WotC comes up with. And t-shirts. It's all the same to me. I haven't invested a lot of time in memorizing rules and analyzing systems, nor do I intend to.
As far as our little campaign goes, it seems to me that we have a pretty loyal yet open-minded and creative group that has been open to house rules and variations to make the game more fun and rewarding to play and easier to PbP. It sounds like JSL's changes should theoretically continue to offer those benefits.
I have no idea what my character will look like in 4th level, let alone 4th edition. I am a little concerned about the reduced need for a healer. Initially, I was a frustrated to have such a narrow role, but I have since changed my expectations and chosen a trajectory for my character that capitalizes on her role as a healer. With "healing surges" and such, I am afraid that I would be left without a purpose at all. I've been told that in 4e cleric = leader, but how that would look under a new system is still pretty abstract to me, and I don't know how rewarding "aid another" and assist bonuses will be. We'll have to see.
I will play as long as it's fun. If it's not fun, I have plenty of other ways to spend my limited time and energy.
EDITs -- A few extra thoughts:
1) A hybrid-house-rules version might be a good way to transition -- take the best or most PbP-able aspects of 4e and apply to this chapter of the campaign.
2) Between "chapters," take a brief interlude to playtest a 4e game run by Santinj@. This would give interested parties a chance to try out 4e with expendable characters, get a feel for it, judge its usefulness, likes/dislikes, etc. in a low-risk setting. Certainly there would be a side-discussion all along for comments about 4e and what should/shouldn't be incorporated into the next chapter of the campaign.
3) The "interlude" time would also be a good time to re–evaluate, hash out, and reconfigure characters to fit into a 4e world.
4) By the time we start the next adventure, final rules and character plans would be in place and we can all start from the same page.
That is, if we actually make the changes. I figure it's ultimately JSL's decision where this goes. He's running the game, it's his "house," and we play by his rules, whatever they may be.
I will play as long as it's fun. If it's not fun, I have plenty of other ways to spend my limited time and energy.
Amen sister! ;)
Re: the rest of her previous post:
I agree. As I said, I'm not really 'Anti-4E', But I guess I am 'Pro-3.x'.
Also, as general rule, I will try almost anything once, twice if I like it. (That has gotten me into SOooooo much trouble!) So I am for sure interested in testing a 4E scenario in our 'Down time'.
As for the rest, I'm having a blast! IF the system changes, I'm sure I'll still have fun with you guys. (and gal!) But I'll burn that bridge when I get to it. I mean when I cross it! ;)
Tired, lame jokes even sounding lame to me! ;P
Nighters,
I would be all for it - I like 4E a lot and find it more streamlined and straightforward. If we did Ehlissa would be a Paladin with perhaps Warlord multiclass feat, or Fighter with Paladin multiclass... er yeah, a combo of two of those three! :D
It would mean though that those who have not already, would need to buy a PHB, so I don't want to force anything on anyone.
(Not even gonna PRETEND to try and keep this one short!)
I am curious what your plan is.
Yeah, that makes TWO of us! ;) (I haven't actually PLANNED everything out, [I'm far too indescicive for that] It;s more like a solid idea.)
IIRC, the Ultimate Magus advances caster level simultaneously in both spell-casting classes.
Yes, all but 1st, 4th and 7th, they only advance the lowest lvl, (pick one if they're even)
What would your caster levels be at 20th?
If I took the PRC at 6th lvl (the earliest I can take it with an 8 rank skill requirement) Then 6th lvl would be the 1st level of Ultimate magus.
At 15th Character level, (5 levels + 10 PRC) I would memorize/learn and cast spells as an 11th level Wiz/11th Level Sor. After that I would continue to take levels in Wiz or Sor individually.Interestingly- the way that the levels add up, (only advance ONE class on 1st, 4th & 7th) It doesn't matter if I start out as 3Wiz/2Sor, or 4Wiz/1Sor, when you reach 10th level as an Ultimate Magus, you are STILL at 11/11! (If I started out as 4/1, I would get 3rd lvl spells at character lvl 7, [2 lvls behind a straight Wiz] if I start at 3/2, I would have to wait until Char lvl 8 to get 3rd lvl spells. But it all ENDS up at the same place!
What feats are you looking at?
With the PRC abilities, I plan on taking all of the low to mid Meta-magic feats I can grab!
(The Class lets you 'burn' a spell level from one class to add metamagic feats to a spell you are casting from another!)I don't plan on overloading with Crafting Feats, thanks to your system JSL, But I will probably still take 'Craft Wondrous Item' so I can make some things at higher than Base lvl.
Also contemplating taking a 'Shadow Magic Feat' (if allowable & can be modified to fit our campaign) to further reflect The 'Shadowy Side' of Sli's magic I seem to have written myself into!
Also thinking about using unused Craft Points to buy off the Flaws, or buy extra feats for enhanced spellcasting. (SInce he is 'focused' on Conjuration but not specialized, was thinking about taking the feats that boosts your summoned creatures [Max HP, applies a known spell to a creature when summoned automatically, etc] I don't have the names in front of me.)
Also, (and here is where I am giving myself headaches with this class!) According to a 'Ask the Sage' article several months ago (year or more?!?) you CAN apply the feat 'Practiced Caster' (Which Sli currently has for Sor) to the Ultimate Magus PRC!
SOooo,... at 15th lvl I'm LEARNING and casting spells as 11/11, my SOR spells would be CAST at caster level 15! PLUS the +1 for Conjuration (Tattoo Feat) So at 15th character level, Conjuration spells would be cast at 12/16.
-BEFORE you (or anyone else) gets worried, remember, At 15th level I will 'only' be accessing 6th level spells as a Wiz (Lower for Sor) While Straight wizards get 8th lvl spells at 15th level!
-On the up side, I will be able to cast as MANY spells per day as an 11th lvl wizard and 11th lvl sorcerer working as a team. (Now if there were only a feat to let you cast more than one spell/round,... OH! There is! 'Swift Spell!') ;)
Are there magic items you are hoping to have?
Yes. I am hoping to develop Sli with 'Signature Items' (A concept from RPGA-basically you pick 3 or 4 item TYPES [wands, swords, cloaks, etc] and your character is 'famous' for his use of those items, making it easier/cheaper for you to upgrade them) Even without that mechanic in place, I still plan using the concept (Sli's Cloak and Hat for example) and running with it,... Items I am considering/hoping to be able to make are;
-A weapon (Sword or staff) that dances and fights for him when enemies get too close, (either enchanted item, or 'Dancing Weapon' spell in item to immediately cast on weapon Possibly add 'Shrink Item' to sword & put in a ring or bracelet so he doesn't have to carry it!)-Defensive Item-(Thinking Bracelet aka Harry Dresden) with spells loaded for protection, some for casting normally & some with swift action (Spells like Prot/evil, Shield, Stoneskin, etc)
-Cloak-Possibly defensive enchantments, but probably spells like Featherfall, Levitation and flight. Maybe starting with Levitation and improving it to Flight later. If I keep the 'Movement' theme, I might add 'Phase Door' and/or 'Passwall'.
-Hat-"Charm' Item- Charm Person, CHarm Monster, etc. Possible permanently enchanted to also increase CHA?
-Bracelet and rings connected by fine chains (On right hand, opposite of defensive bracelet) Each ring (Connected by a FINE silver chain to the bracelet) is for another spell, but linked in theme. I was thinking starting with 'Forcewave' (I found it on the Crystal Keep website, I think it is in the spell compendium) And adding the 'Bigby's Hand' Line of spells.
-Staff?-Well Yeah! He's a Mage;) But as Sli hates carrying things, (HE is SO getting a Bag of Holding first chance!) he may enchant the staff with the usual blasting spells, then 'Shrink Item' it and put it in a ring, or as a charm on a bracelet with the sword and a crossbow, so the weapon he needs is always 'at hand'! (Oh the puns!) OF course, that means I'd have to rethink one of the other bracelets! ;P
-Also plan on making/using the usual expendable items as we go with your craft system. Wands of MAgic Orbs and magic missile, prepare potions that we need to help us defeat a certain BBEG (Fire resistance for facing a salamander for example) anything else My vivid imagination can dream up!
That's the JOY of your 'Craft Point' System JSL! I can't thank you enough for that!
What do you expect to do with the class?
I'm not sure I follow, I hope that with clever spell selection (Note that I NEVER claimed to be clever!) and the ability to apply Metamagic Feats to spells on the fly, I hope to be the ultimate adaptable mage! Spell for every occasion! ;) It will be nice to play a caster that doesn't have to worry about running out of spells every 3rd fight and resort to a bow or crossbow. But still has to be smart enough to plan ahead and say "Hm, What spells will help us defeat BBEG #3 today?!?"
I hope to have time (Yeah, right) to plan on some cool spell/feat combos, but haven't managed it yet.But never having played a character to 15th level, I have no 'expectations', more like really High (level) hopes! ;D
A lot will also depend on where I decide to take the character and his background. Right now I'm running on a vague plan, (Which fits Sli just fine!) but once we get a few more lvls/modules under our belts, his personality and events which may or may not unfold around him will determine a lot. Like whether or not he starts using 'Bigby's Hand' spells, or the necromatic touch spells!
I'm asking for a couple of reasons. 1) I'm genuinely curious. 2) I do a better job of foreshadowing if I know what direction characters are headed. 3) IF we adopt some 4E conventions, we will do so mindful of people's future plans.
I think that's great! And I appreciate that! As we discussed before, not a lot of opportunity for bringing in things from Sli's background anytime soon. And I have no problem with that! But I just started out playing this char for fun, as a way to get back into playing 'regularly' and pretend to be like my favorite Science-FIction hero! Now it has the chance to be even more than that. AND it's still fun! I win! :D
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So, I've thought a little bit about the whole 4e conversion thing, and I've got a few items jiggling around in my brain (along with baseball, apparently).
1. I agree with Fabes in that I do not want anyone to feel railroaded into buying a 4E PHB. I think that with one-off experiments like I'm envisioning, no one will have to buy anything. The Pre-rolled characters are online. But with a continuous campaign, it becomes harder if some in the group don't have the PHB as a reference. So, strike one against migrating to 4E.
2. I agree with Dreamer; I don't really care what version of the game we play. However, I think our game is very much a 3.5ish game, and I don't think it would be fun (or good for our campaign) to have to pull a 4E Forgotten Realms (you wake up one day and you are now like this--ta da!) in order to convert to 4E. No retconing either, please! Strike two.
3. I think character conversions are possible and may even be somewhat easy to accomplish in 4E, but I don't know how satisfying it would be to see Vesh as a 4E character--he seems like such a different animal right now, and I'm reluctant to mess with him. I'd be more interested in creating a new character from scratch if we make the switch to 4E, but despite what I wrote in the airport yesterday, I'm not really ready to kill off Vesh quite yet. Perhaps someday, but not right now. So, I retract my previous statement to that effect. Foul ball.
3a. Vesh is also a 3.75 character. I don't mean 3.75 in the sense that people use it to refer to the Pathfinder RPG. WoTC made 3.75 with the later Completes books when they were experimenting with 4E concepts in 3.5 land (like the Seven Swords book, or whatever they called it). You can see it in his class progression, he gets a little somethin'-somthin' every time he gains a level--a definite 4E concept. As a result, I'm not as excited about upgrading him to a strictly 4E version, would prefer to start a 4E character from scratch, etc., etc. Ball one.
4. It's also not like we're playing a strictly 3.5 game right now. With the inclusion of UA stuff, Completes stuff, SC and MIC stuff, and all the 4Eish stuff that JSL is sprinkling in (new skills, item creation points, etc.), I think we're really creating our own 3.5/3.75/4E mixed tape that sounds good for what we're doing. I'd be willing to try sprinkling in even more 4E-flavored licks within our mostly 3E environment, here. We could consolidate more skills, try different feats like the pseudo-multiclass feats we already came up with, have casters able to fling cantrips and orisons at-will (a la PFRPG), etc. And, I whole-hearted support the 4Eifying of the monsters that JSL has done. But, for all the reasons above, I am calling this strike three.
Putting all that together, for as much as I am getting really excited about 4E, I think I value our hybrid more and vote to keep going with it. I also still need/want to officially kick the tires in a 4E game. I DM my 4E excursion in real life in a week-and-a-half, so the clock is running! After that, I'll post a thread with more info. on how to get in on the mini one-offs I've got simmering. And after all that if I'm like, "screw 3.5," I might change votes (I really don't think that'll happen, no matter how much I like 4E). But, even if that happens, I'm more inclined to play through Burnt Offerings as-is and then call it a day and switch to something else. Yes, that means stopping after Burnt Offerings, which I never thought I'd suggest. Just my seven cents.