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So after the better part of two months of effort, negotiating work schedules, school activities, spouse and children issues, where to play, all the usual problems of starting a game, I finally got enough people together to do Shackled City. I was going to have 6 players, then suddenly, before the first session, 2 had to drop. Ok, 4 players, in this rather difficult module, and I really didn’t want to take away from it to make it easier. So I opted for a gestalt game. Everyone reworked there characters, some seamlessly, some having to go back to the drawing board to make there new levels in scout make sense combined with bard. And then, almost last second, one of the dropouts comes back, hat in hand and says he’s good to go if I’ll have him back. So ok, 5 gestalt characters. Seems like that would be a little to much. . . .but what if I were to give the same treatment to the more important NPCs. The Stormblades, Jenya, all the various BBEGs. Sounded like a good idea. And now, having just defeated a Fighter3/Marshall3 version of Kazmojen, the parties really getting into it. But I'm curious, what would all of you do to the NPC's in a gestalted SCAP. Ill post my ideas later, but for now, I wanna see how evil these boards can get!
RPG Superstar 2015
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But I'm curious, what would all of you do to the NPC's in a gestalted SCAP. Ill post my ideas later, but for now, I wanna see how evil these boards can get!
We are also a gestalted group of 3 PC's, Locke1520 is our GM and I can tell you how he handles it - he doesn't hand out XP every session, he's got us trained like Pavlov's dogs. When our PC's start to lag behind in power, he allows us to level. We have been keeping pretty close to the suggested power level for the AP, but we are a bit tweaked up with some house rules.
From a players stand point I can tell you this - 3 PC's with 6 pc levels does not, nor ever will, equal 6 PC's. There have been a few times that after the session he has told me that he scaled back encounters a bit - pulled a few aggressors out of the mix (which was good since 2 of the 3 party members went down due to being so heavily out numbered). I will strongly recommend that you urge a Cleric or two in your party, myself and one of the other PC's are both Clerics with different off classes.
I'll point Locke this way though so he can give you some GM ideas.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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In my campaigns I don't want TPK situations but I also don't want my players to feel like there's no danger or difficulty in the encounters. The balance between the two can be difficult to find in a normal game it is all the more difficult in a gestalt game. My recomendation is to play it by ear and as your planning encounters gestalt the ones you want to be really memorable and leave most of the others with only the barest of changes.
now my game is very different from what you'll be running since you have more PCs than I do, but having run with gestalt PCs I will say that they are not significantly potent than a normal character. Your party of five will not be the same as a party of 10.
In most encounters you can even the odds back up by simply upping the number of basic foes. In significant encounters with major NPC's I'd rework a few of them as gestalt NPC's but this takes some time which it seems you might not have much of.
So another option if you feel comforable with it, would be to just tweak the NPCs up a bit +1 (or more depending) to saves AC and/or attack rolls then add a few bonus HP or a feat or two. After a while you'll have a feel for your PC abilities and can mockup bonuses to the NPC's almost on the fly, saving you time to effectively gestalt the really epic encounters. The trick is to keep the challenge balance intact.
I also would not bother gestalting every NPC. Jenya Rufus and other allies won't need the punch gestalting adds. The Stormblades might be worthy of the effort if a real animosity builds up but otherwise I'd wait and see. Gestalting every single NPC and major monster baddie could get to be a bit much.
Just my 2 cents.
I agree. I've been running the SCAP for going on two years now with 6 gestalt characters. As they approach the conclusion of the adventure, they are a very capable group of PCs. But it hasn't been necessary to gestalt everything along the way to make the encounters challenging for them. Locke1520's suggestion of increasing the size of an encounter is very effective.
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The extra minions idea is tempting, lord knows you cant have to many hobgoblins. (Or krotoa or what have you. My issue is that this tewnds to slow down combat. Also, I just like the idea of the big bads being on ther same essentiasl playing field as the pcs are, just strong enough to mmake it a good fight, and in a few cases downright scary. Take Drakthar, an underpowered vampire bugbear. On his own, intimidating, and quite trreicky to pindown, but he doesnt feel like he has enough oomph. At this pointin the game, my guys havent seen any real spellcasters to go up against, and I still want to make them uncertain of exactly what there up against. So I'm thinking a handful of levels in Warlock are apropriate, taking care to only take invocations that would make him more of a threat, but not overwhelming.
By the by my partys line up as of now:
Gunther Splintershield, LN Fighter2/Rogue3/Dwarf Paragon1, with the Dreamhaunted trait
Kareth, LNHalf-Orc Cleric3 (St. Cuthbert)/Fighter2/Black Dragon Bloodline1, Wyromblooded Trait
Valanar Tyrianos, NG Elf Wizard2/Druid3/Elf Paragon1, Noble Trait
Xalia, Exalted LG Monk3/Favored Soul3(Heronious), Demonscared trait
Melisande Arlintal, CG Bard3/Scout3 with the Scion of Surabar Trait
Thoughts?
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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Here are a just a few suggestions.
Tongueater offers an interesting opportunity for spell casting. Later in the campaign it is discovered that the scions of Saraslan (Demogorgon) still inhabit the area and are cursed with lycanthropy. It is left up to you whether Tongueater is such a scion. If he is then Warlock or cleric could be fun class additions.
Triel is another good candidate for rogue levels or she might be a crusader (Book of Nine swords) in addition to her fighter and cleric levels.
Zenith, I toyed with giving this guy some levels in warblade (also Book of Nine Swords but decided it would be serious over kill for my game) but looking back on the encounter it could be cool to make him a bard whose prophecies inspire the Kuo-toa located in the temple chamber Zenith retreats to. If the PCs have already cleared that room it would be then worth it to add a couple of fresh kuo-toa to the encounter.
Of course now the PC's may be in way over their heads.
My SCAP started with three gestalt (with the potential for a fourth) as well. It now has six gestalt characters. I also use Action Points (Unearthed Arcana style), and for this AP, let them get average on the hit die if they roll below it.
So far, I've had no deaths, and everyone has had a great time and been thoroughly challenged.
I have not tweaked any villains, aside from making TongueEater feral, as per GlassJaw's tweaks (search the board, trust me), and that was in exchange for a bbn level.
I did gestalt the Stormblades (thru level 20), as they are the direct opposition for my group (the ill-named Union of Justice). If you (or anyone) have a need for those files, email at freeclint (at) yahoo (dot) com. (I might also gestalt Kaurophon)
So, as far as my experience goes, try a chapter or two straight from the book and see how they stack up, some adjusting might be necessary.
The only near TPK level dangerous combats for my gestalts were Kazmojen, TongueEater and Tarkilar.
Most importantly, remember to adjust XP for every creature per the rules in the Gestalt section. Everything is -1 CR and the creatures that rely on abilities with saving throws are -2 CR.
Hope that helps!
-c