RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Okay, I've been flipping through some of my books and trying to optimize a spell list for a good-aligned necromancer. I want the character's spells to focus on things that prevent enemies from functioning at peak efficiency. Fear spells to keep them scattered, curses to weaken their defenses, paralyzing spells to permit coup de graces, and level draining spells to soften them up for the rest of the party.
Obviously, being good-aligned, I do not want any of these spells to have the 'Evil' descriptor. I've been trying to find 3 'must-have' spells for each spell level and I'm running into a few gaps. Here's what I've got:
1st: Ray of Enfeeblement, Cause Fear ?
2nd: Scare, Ghoul Touch, Blindness/Deafness
3rd: Vampiric Touch, Ray of Exhaustion ?
4th: Fear, Bestow Curse, Enervation
5th: Waves of Fatigue ? ?
6th: Circle of Death, Undeath to Death ?
7th: Finger of Death, Waves of Exhaustion ?
8th: Horrid Wilting ? ?
9th: Wail of the Banshee, Energy Drain ?
Help me fill in the blanks! So far, I've only looked at SRD spells (since I'm at work without my books). I have many more resources at home but, meh, I'm bored and want to plan NOW! Hehe.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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I've always really liked Complete Arcane's 2nd level spell "Phantasmal Assailants." It's both fear and mind-affecting. Always wanted to use it, but alas, never the chance.
You might want some other offensive spells as well....in case you need to do more than just soften up the BBEG.
Might I suggest "Toothed Tentacle" from Lost Empires of Faerun? Kind of cool.
Evard's Tentacles might be nice too for slowing something down.
Just some suggestions - not necromancy per se, but they might pair up nicely with what you have.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I've always really liked Complete Arcane's 2nd level spell "Phantasmal Assailants." It's both fear and mind-affecting. Always wanted to use it, but alas, never the chance.
You might want some other offensive spells as well....in case you need to do more than just soften up the BBEG.
Might I suggest "Toothed Tentacle" from Lost Empires of Faerun? Kind of cool.
Evard's Tentacles might be nice too for slowing something down.
Just some suggestions - not necromancy per se, but they might pair up nicely with what you have.
Enchantment, Illusion, and Transmutation are my prohibited schools (I'm doing the Focused Specialist variant from the Complete Mage) so I really want to go heavy on the Necromancies here. Good suggestions, though, but unfortunately a couple of them aren't available to me.
Any reason why you don't have Chill Touch on the first level spells?
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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What books you using?
- All of the Complete books
- Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
- Lost Empires of Faerun
- Magic of Faerun
- Player's Guide to Faerun
- Unearthed Arcana
- Races of Faerun
- Underdark
- All Core books
- Draconomicon
- Manual of the Planes
Books that I tragically lack (and are therefore not viable for this campaign):
- Libris Mortis
- Heroes of Horror
- Spell Compendium
Try going to WOTC's site and go to the "Tools" section. When you get to the compiled spell list, do a search for "necromancy" and everything should come up.
Any reason why you don't have Chill Touch on the first level spells?Because I don't think it's really all that good of a spell when compared to ray of enfeeblement. If you have a compelling arguement to the contrary, let me know.
It would seem to give reasonable undead control and it could replace a melee weapon in emergencies.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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It would seem to give reasonable undead control and it could replace a melee weapon in emergencies.Any reason why you don't have Chill Touch on the first level spells?Because I don't think it's really all that good of a spell when compared to ray of enfeeblement. If you have a compelling arguement to the contrary, let me know.
We have a cleric for undead control. As for replacing a melee weapon, it deals the same damage as a quarterstaff. The only benefit is that there's a CHANCE to deal 1 point of Strength damage but I have to sacrifice a spell slot to get it. It's a weak spell, imo.
The 0-level spell disrupt undead deals the same damage to undead at range. If I really need to irritate the undead, I'll just use that.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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The 0-level spell disrupt undead deals the same damage to undead at range. If I really need to irritate the undead, I'll just use that.
Right...but doesn't Chill Touch allow you one touch per level? So...if you are forced into a grapple situation...it would make continual grappling of you painful. Once you get to 5th level (correct me if I'm wrong here, don't have my books in front of me) wouldn't you get essentially 5 "touches" at 5d6 damage, from a single spell?
I know your character is going to be good, but if you ever need to interrogate someone - having them subdued while you continue to touch them (and sap their strength) might be helpful. Up to you though. If you hate the spell you hate the spell.
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Here are a few that I can find quickly -- all are necromantic spells and none of them have the "evil" descriptor. If I don't list a source it can be found in the PHB. Some of them are not in your list of books but thought I would mention them for other's benefit. This is not a complete list of necromantic spells -- just a list of ones that I would consider for your build. Hope this helps.
1st level --
Blade of Blood -- PHB2
Cause Fear
Chill Touch
Death's Call -- Complete Mage
Ray of Enfeeblement
Shivering Touch, Lesser -- Frostburn
2nd level --
Blindness/Deafness
Curse of Impending Blades -- Miniature's Handbook/Spell Compendium
Death Armor -- Magic of Faerun/Spell Compendium
Escalating Enfeeblement -- Complete Mage
False Life
Ghoul Touch
Life Bolt -- Magic of Faerun/Spell Compendium
Ray of Sickness -- Spell Compendium
Ray of Weakness -- Spell Compendium
Scare
Spectral Hand
Wracking Touch -- Complete Adventurer/Spell Compendium
3rd level --
Curse of Impending Blades, Mass -- Miniature's Handbook/Spell Compendium
Disrupt Undead, Greater -- Spell Compendium
Halt Undead
Healing Touch -- Magic of Faerun/Book of Exalted Deeds/Spell Compendium
Prickling Torment -- Complete Mage
Ray of Exhaustion
Shivering Touch -- Frostburn
Vampiric Touch
4th level --
Bestow curse
Burning Blood -- Complete Arcane/Spell Compendium
Ebon Ray of Doom -- Lost Empires of Faerun
Enervation
Fear
Finger of Agony -- Complete Mage
Horrid Sickness -- Complete Mage
Sinsabur's Baleful Bolt -- Unapproachable East
Touch of Years -- Complete Mage
Wither -- Sandstorm
5th level --
Beltyn's Burning Blood -- Unapproachable East
Blight
Circlet of Enervation -- Shining South
Death Throes -- Planar Handbook/Spell Compendium
Miasma of Entropy -- Planar Handbook/Spell Compendium
Orb of Dancing Death -- Magic of Eberron
Waves of Fatigue
6th level --
Aura of Terror -- Spell Compendium
Circle of Death
Contagion, Mass -- Races of Faerun/Spell Compendium
Fleshshiver -- Player's Guide to Faerun/Spell Compendium
Incorporeal Nova -- Libram Mortis/Spell Compendium
Kyristan's Malevolent Tentacles -- Shining South
Ray of Entropy -- Spell Compendium
Spectral Touch -- Libram Mortis/Spell Compendium
Undeath to Death
Waves of Cold -- Frostburn
7th level --
Arrow of Bone -- Complete Arcane/Spell Compendium
Control Undead
Finger of Death
Kiss of the Vampire -- Libram Mortis/Magic of Faerun/Spell Compendium
Retributive Enervation -- Complete Mage
Righteous Glare -- Book of Exalted Deeds
Waves of Exhaustion
8th level --
Clone
Devastate Undead -- Lords of Darkness
Heart of Stone -- Complete Arcane/Spell Compendium
Horrid Wilting
Leach Undeath -- Magic of Eberron
Touch of the Graveborn -- Complete Mage
9th level --
Astral Projection
Energy Drain
Enervating Breath -- Spell Compendium
Laeral's Crowning Touch -- Waterdeep
Stasis Clone -- Lords of Darkness
Wail of the Banshee
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Right...but doesn't Chill Touch allow you one touch per level? So...if you are forced into a grapple situation...it would make continual grappling of you painful. Once you get to 5th level (correct me if I'm wrong here, don't have my books in front of me) wouldn't you get essentially 5 "touches" at 5d6 damage, from a single spell?
Yes, you get one "touch" per caster level and, granted, touch ACs tend to be lower than actual ACs (which I would need to hit with a quarterstaff). Each touch still only deals 1d6 damage, however, and staying in melee long enough to make use of 4, 5, 6, or more touches means that the d4 hit die, no-armor-wearing mage is standing in melee for several rounds. Never a good thing.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Yes, you get one "touch" per caster level and, granted, touch ACs tend to be lower than actual ACs (which I would need to hit with a quarterstaff). Each touch still only deals 1d6 damage, however, and staying in melee long enough to make use of 4, 5, 6, or more touches means that the d4 hit die, no-armor-wearing mage is standing in melee for several rounds. Never a good thing.
Ah, off the top of my head I thought it was an escalating damage spell that maxed out at 5d6. Again, as a contingency spell only if you were grappled.
But, I think Moff Rimmer has produced a list with far better options.
Director of Narrative
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Here are a few that I can find quickly -- all are necromantic spells and none of them have the "evil" descriptor. If I don't list a source it can be found in the PHB. Some of them are not in your list of books but thought I would mention them for other's benefit. This is not a complete list of necromantic spells -- just a list of ones that I would consider for your build. Hope this helps.
Ahh, the lovely Moff and his kickass spreadsheets! Is the spell list and critter list still available somewhere?
Personally, I've always considered false life to be the best necromancy spell in the core rules (with the possible exception of astral projection, but that's a 9th-level spell).
A must have for any necromancer, IMO.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Personally, I've always considered false life to be the best necromancy spell in the core rules (with the possible exception of astral projection, but that's a 9th-level spell).
A must have for any necromancer, IMO.
Yeah, false life is nice, especially when attached to a contingency. Sometimes it's all you need to stay alive just one more round.
You've got great suggestions so far, so I'll avoid adding more.
I do have a point of thought:
Paralyzing spells to set up a Coup de Grace might not really be a good act... YMMV.
I suspect you meant "not the evil S.O.B.'s we always see." But just in case, it might bear consideration.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Paralyzing spells to set up a Coup de Grace might not really be a good act... YMMV.
I suspect you meant "not the evil S.O.B.'s we always see." But just in case, it might bear consideration.
No, I mean "good." Chaotic Good, specifically. Good characters kill villains as a matter of course. It's part of the fantasy archetype. I'm not trying to play a paladin here, just a necromancer who won't stoop to inflicting diseases and other horrible things on his foes. All things considered, a coup de grace is a fairly swift and merciful death.
Try going to WOTC's site and go to the "Tools" section. When you get to the compiled spell list, do a search for "necromancy" and everything should come up.
That list, unfortunately (and strangely), doesn't list the spells produced by Dragon Magazine (which makes no sense, since it's official D&D content).
So don't forget to look for a fan-based collection of spells from Dragon Magazine on the web (through Google or something) for more official necromancy spells.
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As far as the evil descriptor goes, and your roleplaying, check out Dungeon's "Practical Magic" adventure -- I'm sure someone else can say which issue. The theme behind it shows, arguably, "evil" necromantic magic that's not evil. Anyway, talk to your DM and see if he or she will allow a few of those evil descripted spells, depending on the purpose of casting and roleplaying situation. It would be similar to allowing a paladin to lie or something, depending on the motivation behind it or the circumstance.
Oh, I hate myself for this and am telling myself I shouldn't but, damn it, I just can't help it -- it's "coups de grace" not "coup de graces." Sorry for being pedantic.
-W. E. Ray
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In the first post Fatespinner spells the plural form incorrectly. It's no big deal! I'm just a nut about that kind of stuff. Accidental typos on messageboards don't bother me but this wasn't a typo; I just figured I'd let him know the correct spelling. Spreading correct usage is good. Fatespinner's still cool -- heck, I think I've even shown he's cooler than I am.
-W. E. Ray
Just looking over this stuff- seems to me that, even if the spells don't carry the evil descriptor, some of these things are still really nasty and horrible. But, then again, I suppose it's not so much worse than disintegrating your foes or burning them to death with a fireball. Suddenly, I feel the internal consistency of the D&D alignment system cracking....
Sorry, got nothing to add to the discussion.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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In the first post Fatespinner spells the plural form incorrectly. It's no big deal! I'm just a nut about that kind of stuff. Accidental typos on messageboards don't bother me but this wasn't a typo; I just figured I'd let him know the correct spelling. Spreading correct usage is good. Fatespinner's still cool -- heck, I think I've even shown he's cooler than I am.
Hehe, no hard feelings. I have zero knowledge of the French language so I just applied my American pluralization to the word. My Spanish, however, is not so bad. :) And yes, spreading proper language use is always a good thing in my book!
You've got great suggestions so far, so I'll avoid adding more.
I do have a point of thought:
Paralyzing spells to set up a Coup de Grace might not really be a good act... YMMV.
I suspect you meant "not the evil S.O.B.'s we always see." But just in case, it might bear consideration.
Eh, I think sometimes its too easy to think of combat as happening in set chunks of time marked off in rounds. The rules break combat into these components, but if you literally look at what, say, Ghoul Touch does, its paralyzes someone for, maybe, half a minute. In the chaos of "real" combat, what you really did was stall someone for half a minute that was about to swing a sword to cut you down, so you have long enough to take a breath and kill him quickly before is buddies gang up on you.
An old Dragon (roundabout issue 300) had an interesting article on necromancy. There are three paths: the black, the grey, and the white. The black necromancer is evil, and uses the powers of unlife for his own benefit. A grey necromancer sees necromancy as merely another form of magic, which like any other can be used for good or for evil, but is not inherently evil itself.
The good-aligned white necromancer, which is your fellow is, will control and create undead, but only for a limited amount of time and for justified reasons. He controls spirits to allow them to finish their unfinished business, in exchange for a fair duration of servitude. He creates zombies and skeletons, but uses them only for the greater good, and gives the remains a proper burial when they're destroyed.
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The good-aligned white necromancer, which is your fellow is, will control and create undead, but only for a limited amount of time and for justified reasons. He controls spirits to allow them to finish their unfinished business, in exchange for a fair duration of servitude.
Not sure if you want book recommendations, but I read one called "Sabriel" recently about a good necromancer named Abhorsen. Basically, his job is to guide/drive the restless dead through the stages of death, as represented by various gates (some undead are only a little dead and others are REALLY dead. The BBG has returned all the way from the 9th gate IIRC). Oh, and he uses bells to do it. Pretty cool book. By Garth Nix, usually found in the young adult section.
I have a few to add to the list
Kelgore's Grave Mist, 2nd level, PHBII
Doom Scarabs, 4th level, PHBII
Escalating Enfeeblement, 2nd level, Complete Mage
Retributive Enervation, 7th level, Complete Mage
Touch of the Graveborn, 8th level, Complete Mage
Spiritwall, 5th level, Complete Arcane
Arrow of Bone, 6th level, Complete Arcane
Incorporeal Nova
Necromancy [Death]
Level: Cleric 5, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: medium (100ft+10ft/level)
Area: Incorporeal or gaseous creatures
within a 40ft radius
Duration: Instaneous
Saving throw: Will negates
Spell resistance: Yea
A nova of dissolution dissipates the
immaterial bodies of incorporeal
creatures, destroying them instantly.
The spell destroys 1d4 HD worth of
creatures per caster level (max 20d4).
Usually, creatures such as Shadows,
Wraiths, Spectres, ghosts and similair
creatures are destroyed, though
Vampires and living creatures in
gaseous form are aslo affected, as well
as other incorporeal creatures.
Creatures with the fewest HD are affected
first; among creatures with equal
HD, those that are closest to the point
of origin of the burst are affected first
No creature with 9 or more HD is affected
,and HD that are not sufficient to affect
a creature are wasted. From Libris Mortis
I'll post some of the better Necromancy spells from both the Spell Compendium and Libris Mortis as I get a chance.
I am not sure about spells, but there sure are some great feats to make your undead a lot tuffer :)
wow you dont have Libre Mortis; that is like leaving your house without your keys; you can't get back in; and can't drive your car :(
That book is like the Necromancers left arm, foot, and jibblies; well, to create better thugs anyhow; some nice spells too.
I know this is an old post but I think you will like this. A new class from Kobold Quarterly called the White Necromancer
http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/front-page10999.php
Heres my two copper to add to the suggestions.
First get yourself a copy of Tome & Blood. theuy have raw negative energy ray and wave spells in there for any necromancer.
It's also a nice resource to have if you wanna tweak your DM. Remember the rules states that unl;ess the 3.0 has been updated to a 3.5 revision then the 3.0 version stands.
I personally use the various druid spells that give a +4 stat aty a -2 cost all day long.
If you and you DM don't mind putting in the time might I suggest going ultra old school and getting the blue soft cover 2nd edition The Complete book of Necromancers. That one has some amazing white necromancy spells such as wound transfer or the classic hold undead.
If your charecter has the gold then research some spells of your own.
I had a blast in my last eberron campaign comeing up with unique 1st, 5th and higher level spells.
Last bit of advice, if you have Lost Empires of Fareun it has the 3 tree feats that can give you back a lost school due to specilisation, if you want it.
God Gameing to you.