For Moff Rimmer, the reason the stem cell issue will keep coming up is it is not settled. The issue helped the Democrats win Congress last fall. I think that more American voters still side with Michael J Fox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9WB_PXjTBo
Than with Rush Limbaugh:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200610240001
Gathering vetoes from Bush may be the most effective tool that Democrats can wield since they have a slim majority.
Personally, I find the anti-science of the current administration concerning for our continued prosperity (stem cells, evolution, environment).
I think the following from hhttp://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/06/the_stem_cell_veto .php is helpful when looking at the stem cell funding debate:
“Destroying human life in the hopes of saving human life is not ethical,” US President George W. Bush said yesterday “a nation founded on the principle that all human life is sacred.” That, of course, came during his address on the need to ban embryonic stem cell research.
Except that it didn't. Rather, it came during his address on the need to veto a bill permitting the use of federal funds to undertake embryonic stem cell research. The conclusion, however, seems unrelated to Bush's line of reasoning. If the cells are sacred human life, then surely it's not okay to kill them in a privately financed manner. The nonsensical nature of Bush's position on this issue is old news, but continues, in my view, to be under-remarked upon in mainstream coverage of the issue. Years ago, he hit upon a goofy split-the-difference compromise and ever since then he's been wandering the country insisting that he's taking a bold stand of principle."
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I tend to be a little skeptical when I hear about how politics today are so much worse than they have been in the past. Every generation has said that, but you really don't have to look too hard at history to see the fallacy in the argument. We don't have a civil war here yet, do we? Has anyone been caned on capitol hill lately? The divisions among our people have clearly been worse at times in the past than they are today.
That said, this whole 'war on terror' thing is two steps beyond ridiculous. Terrorism is a means to an end. It is a tool (a reprehensible tool) that various countries and cultures throughout history have used to get what they want. You cannot fight 'terrorism'. You cannot go out and kill every 'terrorist'. In fact, attempting to do so qualifies you as a terrorist in the eyes of the innocents that you will invariably hurt while trying to go after the 'terrorists', thus creating more new 'terrorists' than you killed in the first place. We're buying into the cycle of violence that Israel and Palestine are trapped in. It is a death spiral.
There's no king of terror out there to ever surrender or cap himself in his bunker, so how does this ever end? Generally speaking, terror is taken up and wielded as a weapon by forces that stand no chance of attaining their goals through any other means (at least in their eyes). Terrorism is war waged by the extreme underdog. As long as there are extreme underdogs somewhere in the world, we will have terrorism. Bush, like other quasi-authoritarian minds in our past will use this foil to do what he and Mr Cheney want to do until their administration ends and someone more moderate is elected to office.
You really want to rid the world of terrorism? Then focus on bringing the overall world standard of living up out of the toilet. Reducing the amount of desperation in the world's most impoverished places is the only way to take the wind out of the sails of 'terrorist' recruitment. Help people find a reason to live, and they won't be so quick to kill and die.
If you don't agree, then please, define terrorism some other way. But please make sure that bulldozing houses with women and children still inside them doesn't fit your definition. Otherwise your arguments for attacking states that sponsor terrorism might advocate attacking our closest allies - or even ourselves.
Homeland Security: Fighting terrorism since 1492.
That said, this whole 'war on terror' thing is two steps beyond ridiculous. Terrorism is a means to an end. It is a tool (a reprehensible tool) that various countries and cultures throughout history have used to get what they want.
Up Next:
The WAR ON HAMMERS!
Yeah, Luke has a good point.
"Terrorist" is what the big, rich army calls the little, poor army.
That's the day ice cream prices shot up through the roof, K. Don't make light. Switching to sorbet was hard (and frozen) pill to swallow.Pardon my ignorance, but what happened on 09/01/01? Was there some big event ten days before 9-11?
Yep... and Im a heartless 30 year old... I used to have a heart... but it was ripped still beating from my chest on 09/01/01.
I still have nightmares. My therapist says it's a normal response, though. I-I'm just worried about the children...growing up in a world where they can't bathe in Rocky Road ice cream to their heart's content. What kind of America is this?! When are we gonna stand up to these guys?!
I'm sorry...I have to go.
Well said, Luke.
That's the day ice cream prices shot up through the roof, K. Don't make light. Switching to sorbet was hard (and frozen) pill to swallow.Pardon my ignorance, but what happened on 09/01/01? Was there some big event ten days before 9-11?
Yep... and Im a heartless 30 year old... I used to have a heart... but it was ripped still beating from my chest on 09/01/01.I still have nightmares. My therapist says it's a normal response, though. I-I'm just worried about the children...growing up in a world where they can't bathe in Rocky Road ice cream to their heart's content. What kind of America is this?! When are we gonna stand up to these guys?!
I'm sorry...I have to go.
Think of the children! Won't somebody PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?
Think of the children! Won't somebody PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?
Because Lord knows they can't think for themselves. The younger they are the more they have attention spans like fruit flies.
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Think of the children! Won't somebody PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?That's the day ice cream prices shot up through the roof, K. Don't make light. Switching to sorbet was hard (and frozen) pill to swallow.Pardon my ignorance, but what happened on 09/01/01? Was there some big event ten days before 9-11?
Yep... and Im a heartless 30 year old... I used to have a heart... but it was ripped still beating from my chest on 09/01/01.I still have nightmares. My therapist says it's a normal response, though. I-I'm just worried about the children...growing up in a world where they can't bathe in Rocky Road ice cream to their heart's content. What kind of America is this?! When are we gonna stand up to these guys?!
I'm sorry...I have to go.
My understanding is that it was actually a plot concocted by the government to stir up public outrage against the ice cream producing super powers and allow for a full scale invasion and occupation, thereby giving us sole control over the production of ice cream.
Alas, things seem to have spiraled out of control, and now ice cream prices climb seemingly without limit, while children choke down sorbet and listen to their elders speak wistfully of "the way things used to be."
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I still have nightmares. My therapist says it's a normal response, though. I-I'm just worried about the children...growing up in a world where they can't bathe in Rocky Road ice cream to their heart's content. What kind of America is this?! When are we gonna stand up to these guys?!
I'm sorry...I have to go.
There's always frozen yogurt. Puddin' pops?
Wow! SO this is why Cold Stone was out of my usual French Vanilla the other night. I had to settle for Strawberry!
There's always frozen yogurt. Puddin' pops?
Talk like that'll earn you a permanent stay in Git'mo, hippie.
Can I have some pudding?
Don't make me Cheney you in the face.
Which one, Lon or Dick?
Lon Jr.
There's always frozen yogurt. Puddin' pops?
Speakin' of, what the hell happened to Jello Pudding Pops? Those things were AWESOME! Where are they? Did Bill Cosby steal 'em all and hide them in his super-secret bunker of Coca-Cola and Jello?
Oh, and as a side note, the Reese's Klondike bars are fully of frozen peanut-buttery-ice cream goodness. And Bailey's Irish Cream Haagen-Dazs is good too. :)
Can I have some pudding?Just ask Bill, he loves to share his pudding.
Egad. I seriously thought you were referring to Bill Clinton and I dreaded what images the link might escort me to.
Turns out I'll have internet at the place I'll be for the next few days. Yay.
I'm a fan of Lon jr. myself.
And I am glad, regardless of our various political affiliations, we can all agree that sorbet being forced upon us is just un-American.
One day I might have a daughter named Vixen Wild (I want her to have a leg up in the entertainment industry) and little Vixen will look at the letter I in our ABC book and ask me... (sniff)... she might ask me, "What's ice cream, Daddy?"
(SOB!)
Speakin' of, what the hell happened to Jello Pudding Pops? Those things were AWESOME! Where are they? Did Bill Cosby steal 'em all and hide them in his super-secret bunker of Coca-Cola and Jello?
It's not all that implausible. He bought the Our Gang and Little Rascals rights just so he could shut them down. Seen any lately? Seen any in the last decade? Someone must have called the poor man Stymie or Buckwheat as a child. Who knew he'd grow up to have over a hundred millions dollars with which to get even?
One day I might have a daughter named Vixen Wild (I want her to have a leg up in the entertainment industry)
North Hollywood is not the capital of the entertainment industry....
Just sayin'
As someone who suffers from a major illness potentially curable via stem-cell research, I cringe when George Bush Jr. claims we'll be "destroying human embryos".
He is, in point of fact, lying.
The tissue used in stem cell research is taken, for the most part, from fertility clinics. These samples are composed of blastocysts, not embryos. We're talking about a group of a hundred cells, smaller than the period at the end of this sentence.
These are cryogenically frozen, nonviable cells. They will never turn into a human. They are discarded after a set time period of cryogenic stasis. They could be used to cure a number of major dieases and alleviate massive suffering in the world. And we're throwing them away.
We're throwing them away because the distinction is too science-y for George Bush Jr. His willful ignorance and pandering to his reactionary, knuckle-dragging base has led him to lie his way out of actually helping the world. Instead, he gets to veto the funding and conjure images of mad scientists coming for pregnant mothers in the night and ripping their still-living children from their wombs. Way to fearmonger.
and conjure images of mad scientists coming for pregnant mothers in the night and ripping their still-living children from their wombs. Way to fearmonger.
Cool campaign intro!!! D20 Modern with a horror twist anyone?
PC: Cool motorcycle! What's it run on?
NPC: Fetuses.
One day I might have a daughter named Vixen Wild (I want her to have a leg up in the entertainment industry)North Hollywood is not the capital of the entertainment industry....
Just sayin'
I want to start her out with reasonable expectations from which she can work her way up.
PC: Cool motorcycle! What's it run on?
NPC: Fetuses.
(James looks into the twinkling stars wistfully, a tear rolling down his cheek.)
Someday, world. Someday.
Director of Sales
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PC: Cool motorcycle! What's it run on?
NPC: Fetuses.
This reminds me of an episode of Sealab 2021...
This reminds me of an episode of Sealab 2021...
The fake armpit hair... inspired.
Sigh... LoL I hope a Nerull worshiping Extremist-Muslim terrorist captures all of your PC's and beheads them with a +5 unholy Vorpal scimitar.
:)
Up Next:
The WAR ON HAMMERS!
Yeah, Luke has a good point.
"Terrorist" is what the big, rich army calls the little, poor army.
And considering that "terrorist" is such a phrase which can be used by anyone to label anything, we might as well call Judge Death to deal with the problem ("Only living people commit crimes. Solution: kill everyone.")
Are you colonists in American continent planning to apologize soonish to Queen of England of your awful acts of terrorism around end of 18th century? And admit her as your lawful ruler?
If one benefits from seeing it that way, Gandhi was a terrorist. As was Nelson Mandela. And Rosa Parks. And numerous others.
...and jogging back to the original topic, I thought Reagan's Alzheimer was pushing also Republican interest towards stem cell research? Or was he already forgotten?
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These are cryogenically frozen, nonviable cells. They will never turn into a human. They are discarded after a set time period of cryogenic stasis. They could be used to cure a number of major dieases and alleviate massive suffering in the world. And we're throwing them away.
As I stated earlier, from what I've read, there hasn't been a single viable treatment or cure developed through research utilizing embryonic stem cells - which is what the President opposes. There have been successes with research conducted utilizing adult stem cells - which some Republicans, including the President I believe, have supported.
...for George Bush Jr. His willful ignorance and pandering to his reactionary, knuckle-dragging base has led him to lie his way out of actually helping the world...
I've got to disagree here. He's not pandering to the group -- he's part of the reactionary, knuckle-dragging base.
And it's not lying if he believes what he says. It's just wrong... and stupid.
IMHO :)
PS -- sorry to take this (increasingly amusing) thread back to a pointlessly-inflammatory discussion :)
Political arguments can't be won :/
As I stated earlier, from what I've read, there hasn't been a single viable treatment or cure developed through research utilizing embryonic stem cells - which is what the President opposes.
Well since we haven't found any cures yet, I guess we should stop trying.
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As I stated earlier, from what I've read, there hasn't been a single viable treatment or cure developed through research utilizing embryonic stem cells - which is what the President opposes.Well since we haven't found any cures yet, I guess we should stop trying.
There have been successes with research conducted utilizing adult stem cells - which some Republicans, including the President I believe, have supported.
Or, we could focus on what already seems to work and promises actual results.
Sigh... LoL I hope a TCBY worshiping Extremist-Ice Cream terrorist captures all of your PC's and serves them sorbet with a +5 unholy Vorpal scoop.*Well that's not very nice.
* original quote edited for levity.
Brilliant!
As to the original quote, this is not an uncommon POV it seems, from either the left or the right. As I've said before, most people would rather be right than correct. If we don't understand their rightness, death should befall us so that we may know. I see the same thing from a few environmentalists (and let me be clear, I am an environmentalist) but these particular folks feel so right when they espouse a dark prophecy concerning what's coming down the pike for us all that when massive and frequent freak storm patterns, massive deforestation, and other calamities of various nature befall us and are reported on the news... they're almost delighting because they believe their point is being proven and weren't they just so right all along and weren't the naysayers just soooooo wrong.
When it comes to the end of the world through environmental disasters, I want to be wrong. Really. Please prove me wrong so I can sleep at night. I used to be a very infallible person. A righteous jerk-off, if you will. The pressure of keeping that act going and enduring the extinction-event disappointment in my fellow man was a crushing misery. Admitting that, for all I know, I don't really know jack was incredibly liberating. My life changed when I stopped thinking I could control everything. Well, except for Sebastian. I've got a remote control for the chip in his brain and I can make him tear the rest of you down like a ravenous five alarm blaze. Lo and fear my power! >:)
::click, click::
:\ See, now an infallible person would have remembered batteries for the thing.
Well, except for Sebastian. I've got a remote control for the chip in his brain and I can make him tear the rest of you down like a ravenous five alarm blaze. Lo and fear my power! >:)
::click, click::
:\ See, now an infallible person would have remembered batteries for the thing.
Hee hee!
Maybe Sebastian has become sentient and took the batteries out...
I'm too impoverished to fear lawyers.
They could seize your D&D Books and pawn them.
...When it comes to the end of the world through environmental disasters, I want to be wrong. Really. Please prove me wrong so I can sleep at night. I used to be a very infallible person. A righteous jerk-off, if you will. The pressure of keeping that act going and enduring the extinction-event disappointment in my fellow man was a crushing misery. Admitting that, for all I know, I don't really know jack was incredibly liberating. My life changed when I stopped thinking I could control everything...
That's my point of view on a lot of things. When we first invaded Iraq, I honestly hoped that I would be proven wrong in my opposition. As reluctant as I am to swallow my pride and admit I'm wrong, something of this magnitude going well would have forced me to. One of the cases where I'm upset at being (at least, in my mind) correct.
I also consider myself an environmentalist and I am convinced of the global warming arguement, though I have calmed down enough to be willing to look at other points of view. Groups like ELF are just as scary as any group of extremists. It's amazing they haven't killed anyone yet; on purpose or by accident. I've known some scary, militant vegans as well. "Nonviolent resistance doesn't get the job done, so on the way to the rally I grab my soy milk and my gun" feels like a hypocritical "philosophy" for folks that go out of their way to make certain that their diet harms nothing with a functioning degree of sentience. Call me crazy.
Personally, I wish we could leave politics and religion off these boards...yes, even Paizo's Off-Topic boards.
God bless the president of the United States of America.
I think this is a great place for debating religion and politics. The people here are diverse and intellegent.
I also consider myself an environmentalist and I am convinced of the global warming arguement, though I have calmed down enough to be willing to look at other points of view. Groups like ELF are just as scary as any group of extremists. It's amazing they haven't killed anyone yet; on purpose or by accident. I've known some scary, militant vegans as well. "Nonviolent resistance doesn't get the job done, so on the way to the rally I grab my soy milk and my gun" feels like a hypocritical "philosophy" for folks that go out of their way to make certain that their diet harms nothing with a functioning degree of sentience. Call me crazy.
The problem is that you're creating a false dichotomy and ignoring one important variable: power. The crazies on the left are pretty marginalized and don't have the power to affect any change. The crazies on the right are in the White House.
El Skootro
Those assets are "held in trust" for my progeny.
They could seize your progeny and send them in a sweatshop to repay your debts.
Euh... wait, no, that's China...
Well, then... good for you!
;-)