Other than the core 3, what books do you consider to be so commonly used and accepted as to be an integral part of the game?
PHB2, Complete Adventurer, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior, the Spell Compendium and all the Monsters Manual.
Just the core 3. A good campaign can be run for years with just those three books. Everything else is optional.
While I really like a lot of the stuff scattered throughout the various supplements, they remain just that: supplements. The 3 core books are likewise just that: the 3 core books. The PHB, DMG, and MM are Core, everything else is supplemental.
Certain books have become very useful and welcome in our D&D sessions. The two most notable additions are the Spell Compendium and the Magic Item Compendium. These can be valuable resources, but they are a lot of additions that could offset the balance of the game. So, caveat emptor. (I think I spelled that right...been a while since Latin.)
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PHB2, Complete Adventurer, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior, the Spell Compendium and all the Monsters Manual.
Agreed, though I'd probably add in the DMGII. Same situation as in 2e really, when the typical core books at any given table were the Big 3, Tome of Magic, and the various core class handbooks (i.e., fighter, thief, cleric, wizard).
Which is not to say I wouldn't mind playing without any of the above books, but that I would expect them to be commonly accepted. I suppose the only caveat I would add is that I think a lot of tables use those books, but do not use the new classes.
Anything the DM wants.
Anything on the SRD.
As core+, I'd also count Complete Adventurer, Arcane, Divine, and Warrior, Races of Destiny, Stone, and the Wild, and Players Handbook II and Dungeonmasters Guide II.
Wow, I am amazed. I myself only consider the core 3 to be core, de facto or otherwise. When I DM, I am put off when a player takes for granted that anything outside of the core 3 are usable. Obviously, I'm in the minority.
Wow, I am amazed. I myself only consider the core 3 to be core, de facto or otherwise. When I DM, I am put off when a player takes for granted that anything outside of the core 3 are usable. Obviously, I'm in the minority.
In my case there's "pure" core, core/SRD, and core+. "Pure" core is the basics. Core/SRD expands things a bit and includes everything that's OGL; which means, in theory at least, it should be compatible with any D&D game. Core+ expands things even more without invalidating or replacing the core rules; you can use most of the core+ material in most campaigns without too much work (usually limited to background).
In any case, core/SRD is the de-facto core for most groups that I encounter, unless otherwise stated.
I'm in the camp that the core books is core. I have played with people who think anything published by WotC is de facto core rules (even if they can contratict one another), and as DM it is MY duty to know all those obscure supplemental rules, classes, feats, spells etc.
I started 3 edition with just the PHB. That first run of the PHB third edition was only $20.00 and came with a supllemental attachment with some DM stuff like monster description. You could run a game with the PHB and the Monster Manual alone. Although the reference for condition description, traps, poison and desease are missing.
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I only consider the 3 core books to be, um, core books, because they're the core books. However, the 'second-tier' of core books, in my mind, includes:
- MM 2&3
- Complete Warrior, Arcane, Divine, and Adventurer
- Frostburn/Stormwrack/Sandstorm
- Unearthed Arcana
- Fiend Folio
- Deities and Demigods
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Wow, I am amazed. I myself only consider the core 3 to be core, de facto or otherwise. When I DM, I am put off when a player takes for granted that anything outside of the core 3 are usable. Obviously, I'm in the minority.
Thank you.
I'm a little perturbed when a player shows up with the latest splatbook and expects that he'll just be allowed to use everything in it.
There is always a tension between allowing a player to play what they want, to stat up their imagination as it were, vs. just letting them get away with murder.
You can do so much with the just the big 3 - the supplements are nice, but I allow them in very slowly - and usually not every aspect of a supplement makes its way in.
I usually only go with the core rulebooks, Fiend Folio, Monster Manual 2, and... like whatever Adventure Path I'm running. Its funny--and I'm not trying to be arrogant here--but now when I asked people what campaign they're running I expect to hear "Age of Worms" or "Savage Tide" and when folks say "Oh, I'm doing my own thing," it kind of takes a moment to compute.
If I had to add one more book as a core book, it would be spell compendium - with great hesitation/trepidation.
By definition, only the core books are core. By extension, one might include the SRDs (psionics, divine, variants) and players will always be attached to their great many splatbooks.
Wow, I am amazed. I myself only consider the core 3 to be core, de facto or otherwise. When I DM, I am put off when a player takes for granted that anything outside of the core 3 are usable. Obviously, I'm in the minority.Thank you.
I'm a little perturbed when a player shows up with the latest splatbook and expects that he'll just be allowed to use everything in it.
There is always a tension between allowing a player to play what they want, to stat up their imagination as it were, vs. just letting them get away with murder.
You can do so much with the just the big 3 - the supplements are nice, but I allow them in very slowly - and usually not every aspect of a supplement makes its way in.
Right there with you Eyebite. Over mutliple games, one player I know has chucked a shit at myself and another dm, because we wouldn't let him play variant whatever. Lately he said he was levelling as an alchemist in a game where players start as Isgerian commoners, didn't even ask if it was okay. I looked it over, provided all the details of why it isn't balanced or suitable to the game. He exploded for 10d6 damage to himself and his respect, I had evasion.
My core selection: players 3.5, dm 3.5, monster manuals ahoy from many mixed sources, melee classes from beta (not monk or paladin), two books of feats, the quintessentials, many of the completes, but not complete arcane. Dragon magazine is great, but that more comes in periodically and piece-meal.
Pathfinder core is not my core, I've found much in the way of wrought. For more, see my review and the review by the equalizer.
i'm 4 years late to this messageboard but have to agree there. MM 2&3
- Complete Warrior, Arcane, Divine, and Adventurer
- Frostburn/Stormwrack/Sandstorm
- Unearthed Arcana
- Fiend Folio
- Deities and Demigods.
they are good supplementary material. PHB, DMG and monster manuals are part of the repertoire(don't allow the mystic theurge, ninja of the crescent moon and Fochlucan lyrist in my games).
I would like to extend a warning to other DMs to beware of the following books:
- complete mage
- libris mortis
- heroes of battle
-heroes of horror(dread necromancer class)
Of course frosty, stormy and sandy. Essential if you are running a setting outside of the temperate norm. Oh how the fort comes into play!
Libris mortis and heroes of horror are a good dm resource, it has awful consequences for games if power gamers are allowed to use it.