Ok, so we know that the Rise of the Runelords will have giants in it. I collect the D&D minis to use in my game. As such it is easier if I have an idea of what minis I will need in advance. If you could give any hints of what types of giant minis I will need, and how many it would be appreciated.
Olaf the Stout
Ok, so we know that the Rise of the Runelords will have giants in it. I collect the D&D minis to use in my game. As such it is easier if I have an idea of what minis I will need in advance. If you could give any hints of what types of giant minis I will need, and how many it would be appreciated.
Olaf the Stout
I love the term "giant minis" :)
Make sure that your players all make dwarves since they'll be able to benefit from the +4 dodge bonus to AC in almost every fight! Yay!!!
For one adventure right?
Creative Director
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Make sure that your players all make dwarves since they'll be able to benefit from the +4 dodge bonus to AC in almost every fight! Yay!!!For one adventure right?
Not quite. Giants will feature strongly in a couple of the adventures, but there's plenty of other foes to fight in the meantime (I don't think the first giants actually start showing up till adventure three, actually...).
but the dwarves also get a +1 to hit the goblins in the first adventure don't they? So Dwarf PC's wouldn't be a total waste until the giants show up.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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but the dwarves also get a +1 to hit the goblins in the first adventure don't they? So Dwarf PC's wouldn't be a total waste until the giants show up.
Hehe, good point. This AP will make dwarf players VERY happy!
Expect to see a thread entitled 'Dwarves are Overpowered!' popping up soon after the AP takes off. Mark my words.
Expect to see a thread entitled 'Dwarves are Overpowered!' popping up soon after the AP takes off. Mark my words.
Total threadjack, but after running AoW, where I was too generous to my players in terms of character construction, and having now started the STAP where I was merciless, strict and stingy?
I'm starting to suspect that the root cause of almost all "X are overpowered" complaints can be traced to too much DM generosity during character creation, and/or giving out too much treasure.
And more on topic -- Giants are cool! YAY RotRL!
actually, i'm one of those who doesn't want a lot of giant types in the AP. save the fire, frost, hill, cloud, and storm giants for WOTC worlds. IMC giants are descended from titans, and there are no classifications. there are different types but they are all from the same racial stock. full giants, half giants, fomorians (mutant giants), cyclopskin, and ogres. putting all the different types in the AP would make it feel like the "Giants in the earth" series fo modules from waaaay back.
I like the idea of giants being descended from titans, too, but I've actually come to a rationalization of why they can exist in so many different forms.
Titans are extremely magical creatures, intimately linked with the world and its natural powers. The natures of their offspring are shaped by this close bond. Thus, the descendants of the titans who walked the frozen north and other cold areas of the world are frost giants, and those titans who dealt extensively with volcanoes gave rise to fire giants. Etc. Those without much affinity became stone or even hill giants. Ogres... I'm thinking they were a extremely barbarous group that fell to imbreeding or some such.
The only question then becomes trolls. How in the Nine Hells that Don't Exist in Pathfinder did those things come about? :P
I can't wait until the new submissions guidelines come up. I'll be sending in some new giants for the monster section.
No idea on those guidelines yet I suppose?
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Creative Director
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I can't wait until the new submissions guidelines come up. I'll be sending in some new giants for the monster section.
No idea on those guidelines yet I suppose?
Nope; not yet. I'm hoping we'll have something worked out by Origins (which is the first week of July) since that'll be a great time to be able to talk about writing for Paizo. But as of right now... no new news.
Nope; not yet. I'm hoping we'll have something worked out by Origins (which is the first week of July) since that'll be a great time to be able to talk about writing for Paizo. But as of right now... no new news.
Seeing as how you guys have an actual seminar on "Writing for Paizo" on the schedule, I'm thinking it might be good to have some submission guidelines by then. ;-)
Now...if only I were going to Origins this year...::mumbled curses::
--Neil
Any more news on what Giants to expect and how many? So far I know that there will be Ogres and Stone Giants but I don't know how many. Will 4 Stone Giant minis be enough or will I need more?
What other Giants will there be?
Olaf the Stout
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Creative Director
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Any more news on what Giants to expect and how many? So far I know that there will be Ogres and Stone Giants but I don't know how many. Will 4 Stone Giant minis be enough or will I need more?
What other Giants will there be?
Olaf the Stout
No new news yet. But you'll probably need more than 4 stone giant minis...
No new news yet. But you'll probably need more than 4 stone giant minis...Any more news on what Giants to expect and how many? So far I know that there will be Ogres and Stone Giants but I don't know how many. Will 4 Stone Giant minis be enough or will I need more?
What other Giants will there be?
Olaf the Stout
Hear that noise?
For those of you with sufficent listen checks, that is the sound of future PC's cringing.
No new news yet. But you'll probably need more than 4 stone giant minis...Any more news on what Giants to expect and how many? So far I know that there will be Ogres and Stone Giants but I don't know how many. Will 4 Stone Giant minis be enough or will I need more?
What other Giants will there be?
Olaf the Stout
More than 4 at once? Ouch! That'll hurt.
Olaf the Stout
July now. Run to submission guidelines hopefully started. Have 16 monsters written and counting!
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Hey, I was thinking about what I could do to add the personal touch to the AP, and I came upon the idea of themed monsters. So, if Karzoug is Runelord of Greed, and he has an army of giants, then why not a.... Greed Giant!
Huge Giant (Earth)
HD:[/b 18d8+108 (189 hp)
[b]Initiative: -2
Speed: 20ft in auric plate (4 squares); base speed 50ft
Armor Class: 30 (-2 size, -2 Dex, +12 natural, +12 auric plate), touch 6, flat-footed 30
Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+30
Attack: crosier +25 melee (3d8+19/x3) or slam +24 melee (1d6+13) or sling +11 ranged (2d6+13)
Full Attack: crosier +25/+20/+15 melee (3d8+19/x3) or 2 slams +24 melee (1d6+13) or sling +11/+6/+1 ranged (2d6+13)
Space/Reach: 15ft/ 15ft
Special Attacks: Mida’s Touch, Spell-like Abilities
Special Qualities: Low-light Vision, Rock Catching
Saves: Fort +17, Ref +4, Will +10
Abilities: Str 36, Dex 6, Con 22, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 16
Skills: Diplomacy +24, Bluff +24, Craft (Jewelry) +22, Craft (Armor) +22
Feats: Combat Expertise, Iron Will, Ability Focus (Mida’s Touch), Ability Focus (Spell-like Abilities), Power Attack,
Environment: Temperate mountains
Organization: Solitary, gang (2-4), family (2-4 plus 35% noncombatants plus 1 sorcerer or fighter of 4th-7th level plus 2-5 stone giants or 2-8 azer), or band (6-9 plus 1 sorcerer or fighter of 4th-7th level plus 2-5 stone giants or 2-8 azer)
Challenge Rating: 12???
Treasure: Double coins and goods
Alignment: often Neutral Evil
Advancement: By character class
LA:-
Gold giants are greedy and cunning. They wield crosiers, chunky golden staves decorated in rich gems, and wear auric plate mail, engraved full plate mail made from a super-strong golden alloy. They are about the same size as cloud giants and have skin like pale veined marble and gold or silver hair. Their eyes are usually pale but bright and sparkle like gemstones. When not wearing their auric plate armor, they enjoy dressing in rich garments of thin beaten gold and festoon themselves with exquisite jewelry.
In combat, gold giants are immovable objects. While their ranged capabilities for dealing with melee specialists are slightly weaker than those of other giants, they make up for this with their ability to render useless a foe’s armor, allowing for the gratuitous use of the Power Attack feat even against fighters and their ilk. Gold giants are also effective in groups, developing advanced tactics on the fly (such as a few giants maxing out their Combat Expertise feats and drawing the attacks while the rest go on the offensive) and generally working as a cohesive team… until the time comes to distribute the spoils of war : )
Mida’s Touch(Su): 3 times a day, a gold giant can turn any metal into gold. Whilst an obvious source of the giants fantastic wealth, it is also useful for disabling an enemy’s equipment in combat, as gold is soft and pliable, which aren’t fantastic qualities for weapons or armor. The gold giant must make a melee touch attack (use it’s slam bonus) that provoke attacks of opportunity. If the attack hits, the item (or its wielder/wearer, for attended items) must succeed on a DC 18 Reflex save or be turned to gold. While this increases the items selling value by 50%, it reduces the items damage and/or armor bonus to 0. Effects on other items should be determined by the DM if appropriate. Also, once per day a gold giant may attempt to transmute living flesh into pyrite – fool’s gold. This also requires a melee touch attack that provokes attacks of opportunity. If the attack hits, the target must again make a DC 18 Fortitude save or be instantly and permanently transmuted to pyrite as the Flesh to Stone spell. However, this cannot be cured with Stone to Flesh - as pyrite apparently does not count as stone for the purpose of Stone to Flesh – but must be fixed by use of a power-component version of the spell, which transmutes any nonliving tissue back to flesh, and is 7th-level. However, the power component required is the bottled tears of a gold giant, usually produced from lamenting the tragic doom of their race or (more commonly in scenarios involving black-hearted adventurers) from extreme pain. A gold giant’s attitude must be improved to helpful for it to cry willingly, and players should remember that torturing gold giants is an extremely sadistic and evil act.
Spell-Like Abilities(Sp): 3/day: Suggestion (DC18), 1/day: Wall of Gold (DC21) (as Wall of Iron, but made of pyrite), Symbol of Persuasion
The gold giants are corrupted descendants of the cloud giant race, but have since changed so drastically in their powers and temperament that it is folly to view the two as any sort of cohesive whole.
Many years ago, in the time of ancient Thassilon, an evil and malicious cloud giant chieftain named Mida ruled over one of two large tribes of cloud giants in the mountainous regions near Thassilon. The cloud giants were decadent in the extreme, mimicking and trading with their powerful neighbours. However, at one point the opposing cloud giant chieftain performed a great deed in service of the Thassilonians, and was rewarded with a great golden palace set into a mountain, exquisitely decorated and comfortable as any of the Runelords’ dwellings. Jealous and proud, Mida began to covet this palace, and slowly but surely his time became consumed with plots to subtly undermine the rival chieftain’s power and take the wealth for himself. But he always ran into a dead end in these insane plots: the golden palace was a mighty fortress, and it’s people at least as powerful as Mida’s own. Unable to defeat the rival tribe, Mida obsessed day and night about the amazing palace, suffering from wild mood swings and a vile temper. So, when the Runelord Karzoug approached him with offers of incredible power and rulership of the golden palace, Mida accepted at once.
Outfitting his troops with mighty auric armor and massive golden crosiers provided by Karzoug, Mida led his tribe in a midnight assault on the golden palace. Equipped with the Runelord’s powerful artifacts and armed with surprise and a hatred fuelled by envy, Mida’s people quickly overpowered the garrison, and ran on into the shining halls, finding the rival tribe engaged in a drunken orgy. Sweeping through the golden halls, Mida’s troops swept through the fortress, slaying everything they found without mercy. Some members of the opposing tribe attempted to flee through secret tunnels cut deep into the mountain, but to their horror they found these to be blocked by Mida’s elite Hearthguard. Runelord Karzoug had spent a long time alone with Mida before the attack, detailing the fortress that he had built.
Dawn rose with Mida ultimate ruler of the golden palace, his people triumphant and his enemies slain. Where as the previous night the giants had run through the shining hold snarling with rage, now they laughed wildly with delight, dancing around the dismembered corpses as they examined the riches of the palace. The king himself sat in the feasting hall, using Karzoug’s magic to transmute the furnishings into solid gold. When his tribesmen saw what he was doing, they begged to be taught the secrets of this alchemy, and in perhaps his final generous act, Mida told his people the necessary spells to transmute any material they wished to gold. For the next several weeks Mida’s tribe rioted through the massive palace, all that did not glitter already turning to shining gold beneath their delighted touch. Eventually however, the fortresses larders began to go bare, and the giants grew hungry. However, they dared not leave their precious gold, believing in their insanity that should they go forth from the fortress, their kin would bar them from returning, in order to gain a greater “share” of the palace’s wealth. And so they sat within their golden fortress, racked by hunger pains and paranoid hallucinations. Finally, Mida, driven half-mad by starvation and greed, tried to eat some of the precious gold. As soon as he had finished his meal, a transformation was enacted upon Mida and his people. Their skin was turned to fine veined marble, speckled with gold, and no longer had to eat or drink, giving them the appearance of fine statues. Also, they found that though their powers over gold had been substantially increased, they were now increasingly obsessed with wealth. Fights began to break out as each giant attempted to grab the largest portion of the palace for themselves, until Mida at last called a meeting in the central chamber. The king spoke many sad words that day. The giants, he said, would no longer be able to coexist in the beautiful palace. They would each have to go their own way, traveling apart and spreading across the land in their quest for wealth. Mida himself would stay at the golden keep, protecting it from intruders and smithing it’s ornaments into weapons and armor for new generations. He invited every giant to tattoo a small picture of the palace on their arm in gold. Whenever they touched this tattoo, or if Mida spoke a summons, the giants would return to the palace in the blink of an eye. However, Mida warned them not to use it lightly, as there was a chance that an enemy might track the traveling giant, and divine the location of the paranoid king and his splendid abode. Due to the force of Mida’s warning, gold giants now return to the palace only once in their lives: when they have come of age, to collect the auric plate and crosier that Mida has crafted for them.
Today, the gold giants are still a scattered people, still obsessed entirely with material wealth, although some of the younger giants have realized the doom of their racial curse, none can resist its pull. They live in small family groups, in palatial dwellings they have created in mimicry of the golden palace. Everything there is gold, even the slaves that serve them (usually azer or stone giants painted with gold leaf) as the giants while the time away, dancing, reveling, and plotting. When the family group gets so large that arguments break out over possessions, the younger giants will be sent out into the world to establish a stronghold of their own. Gold giants, intelligent masterminds and cunning diplomats, are often found commanding or funding the activities of other evil beings, and are also dangerous personally, as the more powerful of them enjoy assembling vast collections of magic items. They are also quite happy to serve another for a time as deadly mercenary teams – as long as the pay is good, they will go to hell and back.
So... any suggestions? About the "Mida's Touch" weapon/armor killing attack, I wanted to create a rust monster-type attack without the uncomfortable aftermath of screwing the PC over (mainly because, in my experience, the players don't really enjoy this, and see it as an "artificial setback"). The value increase is substantial because shopkeepers in my campaigns often haggle and lie, so selling costs are low. The main purpose of the price increase is so that the loss of armor/weapon is only a temporary setback; once the players leave the dungeon, they can buy a new piece of equivalent equipment. It also fends off queries like "But can't I sell my new solid gold broadsword for like, a million gp?" Feel free to change the price increase value to fit your campaigns merchants. I understand that while sometimes you need something permanent to give the players a sense of realism, but then you can't play through a stronghold of rust monsters like you would a stronghold of giants, can you?
No new news yet. But you'll probably need more than 4 stone giant minis...Any more news on what Giants to expect and how many? So far I know that there will be Ogres and Stone Giants but I don't know how many. Will 4 Stone Giant minis be enough or will I need more?
What other Giants will there be?
Olaf the Stout
Hear that noise?
For those of you with sufficent listen checks, that is the sound of future PC's cringing.
I think a *splat* noise would follow as well.
I think the danger depends on what level the characters will be when they encounter them, and what kind of assistance they might get. If they're between 9th and 12th level the encounter will be very difficult. At 12th level, they can encounter up to 15 of them. If they're under 9th level, it feels like a big boss encounter to tackle 4+ stone giants.
It's been a very long time since I've used giants, and I look forward to using them.