hmmmmm apparently nobody....
I don't buy much from WOTC as is. I find that many third parties produce superior products. Truth be told I plan to support Pazio and will cut out the fat regarding WOTC, meaning if I was on fence with something i.e. the Magic Compendiuem or Drow of the Underdark I will do with out.
Will I never buy from WOTC? I wish I could say yes, but lets be honest with ourseleves. Everyone has their nitch. If WOTC put another mega Vecna adventure produced with trusted designer and game developers like James and Eric how could I say no?
It's been several weeks and while I'm still upset and would love WOTC to change there minds I don't see that happening.
I know the Pazio staff must be tired of hearing about it but according to WOTC they have had a year to prepare and we just got the news a few weeks ago so please be patient with us.
It must be be bad at WOTC, they have appointed an "offical" liason person on there boards to try to calm the backlash.
I guess the bottom line is I would like to see WOTC step up and apologize and give us a straight answers instead of the old "We have great plans but can't just tell you about it right now" line.
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On the wizards.com boards, they prohibit talk about organized boycotts. I'm not sure if they will here or not, but I would expect that it is not permitted.
Posting agreement may be sufficient to get you banned.
Now, I don't care what you do or anyone else does, but I'm not going to buy another WotC product until it is announced the magazines will continue (or restart) in print format. That's a personal choice. I have enough gaming material to suit my needs, and I won't buy something I want from a company that I think has made a deliberate choice to ignore my desires as a consumer. I don't expect that I will always get everything I want. I do expect that I'll be given the chance to fully express my desires and be actively listened to by that company.
I haven't always been happy with the Paizo products released, but they've heard my complaints and they've responded. I have a letter printed in Dungeon asking for the 3 adventures per issue (1 low, 1 medium, 1 high) and they switched to that format.
In my opinion, I can spend my money with a company that seems to truly appreciate my business and is willing to work hard to provide outstanding customer satisfaction. At this point, Paizo is my company for gaming needs.
I just had my FLGS order the 'Art of Dragon'. I have to get that since it sounds like WotC is 'graciously allowing' Paizo to sell remaining stock, but that sounds like they won't be allowed to do re-prints.
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I just wanted to say that on numerous occasions here, at Paizo, I've stated intent to avoid purchasing WOTC products, and have yet to be banned. I don't believe a boycott will be effective, and that's not my point; my whole point is that I'm tired of getting jerked around, and I'm not giving them any money. I'm all about Pathfinder now.
They just don't like personal attacks on people at Wizards here, like saying mean stuff like "so and so can bite me" and mean spirited stuff; I don't do that anyhow; it's not my style, except to fake healer, who deserves it anyway.
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They just don't like personal attacks on people at Wizards here, like saying mean stuff like "so and so can bite me" and mean spirited stuff; I don't do that anyhow; it's not my style, except to fake healer, who deserves it anyway.
That's Fake Healer. Capitals. Deities are always capitalized. Bite me, Heathy;P
FH
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There are very few things that you control. One of those few things is where you choose to spend your discretionary (sp?) funds. When I feel that I have been negatively affected by a decision made by a faceless corporation (a sociopathic entity if ever there was one), I retaliate on a personal level by making sure that no more of my tiny pool of monetary resources ends up in the offenders hands.
While I'm upset about the death of these mags, I haven't experienced it to the degree that alot of the posters on these boards have, and I doubt I will intentionally 'boycott' WOTC. If I see a mini that fits the game I'm running, I'll buy the mini, regardless of who produced it. That said, I cannot remember the last time I purchased a book from WOTC other than RHoD. The quality of their publications is inferior to Paizo's products IMO.
But if they've seriously ticked you off, you should avoid giving them business. It's about the principle. It will make you feel like less of a victim. If the faceless corp makes decisions with only the all-mighty dollar in mind, then show them they were wrong by depriving them of your almighty dollar! Subscribe to Pathfinder. You won't need all the source books WOTC is selling anyway.
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On the wizards.com boards, they prohibit talk about organized boycotts. I'm not sure if they will here or not, but I would expect that it is not permitted.
Posting agreement may be sufficient to get you banned.
Now, I don't care what you do or anyone else does, but I'm not going to buy another WotC product until it is announced the magazines will continue (or restart) in print format. That's a personal choice. I have enough gaming material to suit my needs, and I won't buy something I want from a company that I think has made a deliberate choice to ignore my desires as a consumer. I don't expect that I will always get everything I want. I do expect that I'll be given the chance to fully express my desires and be actively listened to by that company.
I haven't always been happy with the Paizo products released, but they've heard my complaints and they've responded. I have a letter printed in Dungeon asking for the 3 adventures per issue (1 low, 1 medium, 1 high) and they switched to that format.
In my opinion, I can spend my money with a company that seems to truly appreciate my business and is willing to work hard to provide outstanding customer satisfaction. At this point, Paizo is my company for gaming needs.
I just had my FLGS order the 'Art of Dragon'. I have to get that since it sounds like WotC is 'graciously allowing' Paizo to sell remaining stock, but that sounds like they won't be allowed to do re-prints.
Wow. I just saw some of the locked threads over there at Wizards.
I know the one I was on was kinda gnarley, but I didn't think anybody was out of line flamewise. It was just pissy people (self included) being a tad pissy.Then I saw the "sorry guys, no organized protests allowed" lockdown on another thread.
Great.
Yeah, I was there too when they started closing down "duplicate discussion" threads. I also noticed they started making people take all but the most vague critical comments regarding their decisions out of the signatures. I'm all for civilized, polite discourse, but if you can't stand the heat from an unpopular decision, stay out of the kitchen.
Personally, I think if the gaming community wants to send a message to WotC and make them more responsive to our wants, then individual gamers need to be smarter consumers.
90% of the problem, in my mind, is preordering books. Simply, its a form of gamer gambling. You've given WotC your money but have no idea of what they'll be giving you back in return. It's a practice that does nothing to force WotC to consider the quality of its product nor how it serves its customers.
The better course would be to wait until the book is out, then educate yourself about the book. Read the message boards to see what people are saying about it; search for reviews; and if possible, study the book in a store. Buy the quality, useful books; leave the rubbish on the shelf. Ideally, WotC will learn what type and quality of product the community is willing to purchase. Again, ideally, WotC will become more thoughtful and creative with its publications and more careful about QA.
Not buying anything justs leaves them failing about (like they're doing now with the D.I.) ignorant of their customers' wants; which does nothing to help anybody...
The truth is that boycotting won't make Wizards care.
What you CAN do, and what I've found is a successful means of attacking them, is speak to them in the language they understand, the language of business.
If you tell them "I bought your products and now I won't because you're cancelling Dungeon and Dragon," they don't give a crap about one customer, they're a colossal corporation.
But if you phrase your complaint as follows, where you target their lack of customer service, their refusal to present you with even so much as a product demo, and the phrasing of their responses in glittering generalities without presenting you with a mission statement, then they will listen, because instead of seeing you as someone with bitterness, they see you as someone who is evaluating their business, because the only thing that matters to ANYONE these days is customer service.
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Whether my personal boycott succeeds or fails doesn't really matter to me in the least.
I don't need their product. I won't buy product from a company that doesn't treat me well as a customer. At this point, they've lost me until it is announced that the magazines will see print.
If they don't care, they're losing a very good and loyal customer. If I'm alone, they may not care. But, if there are enough people that feel the way I do, and clearly communicate that to WotC through letters, change is a real possibility.
WotC may not care about losing one customer. But they should.
At the company I work for we work very hard to keep every customer. We expect to lose some, but we don't just let them go. We make every effort to satisfy them before accepting that loss. Some customers have demands we simply can't meet. We still try. If you are willing to let 1 go, why not 10, why not 100, why not 1000? At what point does it matter.
If they don't care about one customer, by extension, they don't care about any customer, at least not individually.
At the company I work for we work very hard to keep every customer. We expect to lose some, but we don't just let them go. We make every effort to satisfy them before accepting that loss. Some customers have demands we simply can't meet. We still try. If you are willing to let 1 go, why not 10, why not 100, why not 1000? At what point does it matter.
If they don't care about one customer, by extension, they don't care about any customer, at least not individually.
While I agree with you on many points, there are some flaws to your argument:
1) The reason why WotC's CS is so rotten is that they aren't equipped to deal with anything beyond rules clarifications and general product info. If you've ever had any experience with their CS, there is a blatant lack of guidelines or policy for dealing with major customer concerns. Where, yes, in a normal business the CSR would employ triple-A, ask "What can we do to keep your business," and attempt to negotiate a resolution with the customer — WotC can only offer vague, stock phrases or give you the "armadillo" treatment.
2) If you've ever read the company bios for WotC, you'll notice that there are remarkably few in key positions with respectable business creditials. That lack of background highlights exactly why their record and reputation is as spotty as it is, and is the root cause of (1) above.
3) The reason why they are so cynical and dismissive of the gaming community is, as I stated in my post above, partially our fault. There are just too many within the community who make bad purchasing decisions — such as buying sourcebooks sight-unseen — which only encourages WotC's complacency. There are also those who feel that if they in any way try to hold WotC accountable for their tactics and product quality then D&D will be discontinued. These, and more, demonstrate to WotC that poor decisions have no repercussions. Until those attitudes change within the gaming community, WotC has no reason to make changes...
I also believe that stifling polite discourse regardless of how much WOTC doesn't want to hear it can have nothing but a detrimental effect on them.
I agree, it can only be bad for WotC.
While I'll concede Dragon/Dungeon readers really don't amount to that big a slice of their total market, this kind of heavy-handed treatment of customers is going to validate many people's claims and accusations -- and it may spread the ill will.
Regards,
Jack
Oh, yeah -- a side note:
An online magazine (with no meaningful space restrictions) will allow the Delve format to be used at will. I think this would do more harm than good.
Our friends at Paizo have talked about the feasibility of the Delve format within the pages of a magazine, and made it pretty clear that it won't work -- primarily because of space considerations.
I have the further opinion that the Delve format is strictly a combat aid, and will detract from (and discourage) roleplaying acitivities. The current format allows, and encourages, the DM -- not the magazine -- to decide how to run encounters.
Two more cents :)
Jack
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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An online magazine (with no meaningful space restrictions) will allow the Delve format to be used at will. I think this would do more harm than good.
Our friends at Paizo have talked about the feasibility of the Delve format within the pages of a magazine, and made it pretty clear that it won't work -- primarily because of space considerations.
I've seen this 'Delve' format referenced a lot. WTF is it?
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I've seen this 'Delve' format referenced a lot. WTF is it?An online magazine (with no meaningful space restrictions) will allow the Delve format to be used at will. I think this would do more harm than good.
Our friends at Paizo have talked about the feasibility of the Delve format within the pages of a magazine, and made it pretty clear that it won't work -- primarily because of space considerations.
A giant space wasting mini promoting encounter script found here: link
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A giant space wasting mini promoting encounter script found here: linkI've seen this 'Delve' format referenced a lot. WTF is it?An online magazine (with no meaningful space restrictions) will allow the Delve format to be used at will. I think this would do more harm than good.
Our friends at Paizo have talked about the feasibility of the Delve format within the pages of a magazine, and made it pretty clear that it won't work -- primarily because of space considerations.
What was the f&+!ing point of THAT piece of drek?
I have the further opinion that the Delve format is strictly a combat aid,
Agreed.
and will detract from (and discourage) roleplaying acitivities.
I've always had a bit of a problem with this argument. It will only "detract" from roleplaying if you let it. It's your game. If the "Delve" format says "X will attack...", that's no more restricting than if in an STAP encounter its says under the Tactics section "X will attack...". If you don't want X to attack, don't let it. Now, I've heard that the Delve format will prevent large numbers of different creatures from being detailed in an encounter. That may be true. But it tends to be a rare enough occurrence in my game that either a) it won't have as big an impact or b) I'd just "break" the format, and drag in other creatures as I see fit.
And while I have yet to use it, I can see how it will likely make combat much easier, based on the examples I've seen. And IIRC (while thumbing through the new Ravenloft module in the store) there are still encounters in a "Delve" product that don't use the "Delve" format because there isn't combat involved.
It's a tool, and it's "goodness" or "evilness" is all dependent on how you use it. Personally, if an on-line delivery system means they can do adventures with the delve format, and not compromise the overall length of the adventure, I'm all for it. I know it's a pretty unpopular opinion these days, but I'm curious to see what's in store.
Greg