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Ok first time since 3.0 that I have really run a polymorphing character. Want to make sure I’m getting this right.
Let’s assume I have a druid and he’s gotten to level 4 and has wild shape (works as beast shape I).
He has Str: 18, Dex: 12, Con: 14, HP: 31, AC: 19, and move in armor is 20’
His human shape gear is a dragon hide breastplate, heavy wooden shield, and a club (usually with shillelagh for total of +8 to hit and 2d6+5 damage)
But now he can finally wild shape for combat.
So he changes into a Deinonychus
If I understand correctly he now has:
Str: 20, Dex: 12, Con: 14, HP: 31, AC: 13 (from +2 natural armor bonus), and move is 60’
Also gains lowlight vision and scent. Do not get the skill ranks, pounce, run, or improved initiative. (Do I get the +8 racial bonus to perception, acrobatics, and stealth?)
Natural attack of the following: 2 talon attacks +8 (d8+5), bite +8 (d6+5), and foreclaws +3 (d4+2) {I’m assuming the foreclaws are will be secondary like for the dino}
However, someone told me I only get 2 natural attack even if the animal has 4. I can’t find where he is getting that.
Or for mobility he could change into an eagle
If I understand correctly he now has:
Str: 18, Dex: 14, Con: 14, HP: 31, AC: 13 (from +1 natural armor bonus), and move is 10’ with fly of 30’
Also gains lowlight vision. Do not get the skill ranks or weapon finesse. (Do I get the +8 racial bonus to perception?)
Natural attacks are: 2 talons +7 (d4+4) and a bite +7 (d4+4)
Do I have all that down correctly so far? If yes, I’m afraid the loss of AC is going to be quite painful unless I am very careful. More damage for sure though.
Yes, you're correct. You do get all of the natural attacks, not just 2--whoever said that is very wrong. You do not, unfortunately, get the racial skill bonuses.
You lose AC because you appear to have dumped Dex. If you buy a suit of barding, your allies can put it on you after you shift, that could help. Plus, always use Barkskin. No reason not to have that on. Eventually, though, you'll have the money for Wild Armor and a Wild Shield. Then, your AC probably be best in party.
Overall, though, Beastshape 1 is unimpressive for combat--it's much better or mobility. Beast Shape 2, though, with Pounce, becomes crazy deadly and well worth using.
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Well, I didn't dump dex. But maybe I should have raised it more. I somehow missed how much my AC would be hurt so didn't see the need.
Yes, I will definitely start having a barkskin prepped all the time. Though I haven't always had that much warning and don't want to spend the whole combat buffing.
Plus the Wild enhancement is a +3 enchantment and it needs a +1 first. So both the armor and the shield would be 16k to purchase. Not sure I'll ever really be able to afford it on a PFS character.
Ok, since I got the basic of the first one down correctly. I will be back with some questions on the other polymorph spells.
The answers to the most questions about polymorph can be found in the magic section of the Core Rules. Not under the spell descriptions, but where the schools are described (transmutation/polymorph).
The 2nd paragraph reads:
In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.
Then it explains further things you get (or don't get), which is modified by the various polymorph effects, since some grant more than others. So you need always that page in addition to your spell/ability to have the full information in front of you.
(I was not happy about the changes from 3.5, since the whole thing works differently now, not even mentioning how much it was nerfed compared to earlier editions ;) )
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Here is the text of the polymorph section on the PRD (It is a ways down, under Transmutation school):
In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.
If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell.
Creature's Original Size Str Dex Con Adjusted Size
Fine +6 –6 — Small
Diminutive +6 –4 — Small
Tiny +4 –2 — Small
Large –4 +2 –2 Medium
Huge –8 +4 –4 Medium
Gargantuan –12 +4 –6 Medium
Colossal –16 +4 –8 Medium
There's other, cheaper stuff you can enhance your AC with — Ring of Protection, and Amulet of Natural Armour.
Also, ask your party Arcane caster if they can cast Mage Armour on you.
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Here are some observations that I've made that I would like to see if people concur:
1. Nowhere in the description of beastshape (or polymorph) does it tell you what happens to your base movement. You get additional movements (and some other stuff). Your base movement rate is unaffected by the polymorph (e.g. a gnome that beastshapes into a cheetah still moves at the rate of a gnome. inversely the unemcumbered gnome could become a fish that walks 20' on land.) This seems counter-intuitive to me, but as far as I can tell, RAW seems to lean in this direction.
2. There are no modifiers for changing from Medium to small or vice-versa (unless using the alter self spell.)
3. The modifiers of polymorphs that transition across multiple sizes are additive.
Creature's Original Size ..Str ..Dex ..Con Adjusted Size
......................Fine ........+6 ..–6 .... — ... Small
............Diminutive ........+6 ..–4 .... — ... Small
......................Tiny ........+4 ..–2 .... — ... Small
....................Large ........–4 ...+2 ... –2 ... Medium
....................Huge ........–8 ..+4 .... –4 ... Medium
..........Gargantuan .......–12 ..+4 ... –6 ... Medium
...............Colossal .......–16 ..+4 ... –8 ... Medium
(eg. according to the table, going from from Large to tiny would be a strength penalty of -8, possible leaving a large, Str 8 creature in a helpless state.) I could see a scenario where I convinced a tiny fairy of how cool it would be to be huge, then polymorphed it, only to have it be paralyzed due to its dexterity dropping to zero.
4. Alter self stat mods are Size bonuses. Are the mods from the table also Size bonuses? I know this is only an issue if the two affects aren't both polymorph effects, but in this narrow set of cases, will they or will they not stack?
5.
Yes, you're correct. You do get all of the natural attacks, not just 2.
Where you get access to all of the attacks, are you also saying that you get to use all of the attacks as a full-attack action, even if you BAB's iterative is less than the number of attacks provided by the newly adopted form?
I am very interested in if this how things work, especially in PFS. If at all possible, please quote sources.
Here are some observations that I've made that I would like to see if people concur:
1. Nowhere in the description of beastshape (or polymorph) does it tell you what happens to your base movement.
Er, yes, it does. Polymorph subschool rules: "Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume."
A gnome-turned-into-a-cheetah moves at cheetah speed.
2. There are no modifiers for changing from Medium to small or vice-versa (unless using the alter self spell.)
Depends on the spell. The beast shape spell explicitly provides modifiers.
3. The modifiers of polymorphs that transition across multiple sizes are additive.
Nope.
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Thanks Handaxe Beak for the link. Its one-stop shopping for all of the addendum and such.
Also to Orfamay Quest. the subschool made more sense on the second read. I can now buy into 1. & 2. but am still not understanding why not 3. Can you explain why not? Or better yet, can you walk me through an example, say, of an ancient white dragon (Huge Str 33, etc) turning itself into a rabbit (tiny Str 3, bite –2 (1d3–4))?
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A Huge white dragon turning into a rabbit would first be adjusted to medium (-8 Str, +4 Dex, -4 Con) then gain the modifiers for beast shape II (or higher) into a rabbit (-2 Str, +4 Dex, +1 NA) for a grand total of -10 Str, +8 Dex, -4 Con, and +1 NA.
Aaah! Okay. So its not going to drop helplessly to the ground, unless it also took 23 points of strength damage. Consequently, not too likely to see this kind of negative side-effect ever kickin' in.
On the plus side, the rabbit would have a 1d3+11 bite. But would it still gets its 1.5x bite multiplier?Tim:There he is!
King Arthur: Where?
Tim: There!
King Arthur: What? Behind the rabbit?
Tim: It is the rabbit!