Why not just have the poison applied to the arrows ahead of time?Or fill the bottom of the quiver with it so it coats ALL the arrows?
For one thing no rules in core on how to do this. I'm wondering about these silence arrows as well. Where did they come from? I don't recall silenced arrow as a standard magic item.
Seems like archer and grappler are the most popular ideas here, with melee weapon in a distant third. My main concern with grappler is that he will pretty much always be ,ore maneuverable than me.
I don't think grapple will work. In a grapple a wizard has to make Concentration checks to do stuff - so what this guy will have concentration maxed through the friggen roof. He'll make whatever roll is required.
Beware the ring of freedom. If your wizard pal chooses this for an item, all hope of grappling, pinning, or entangling is lost.Just grapple the wizard.
Get some boots to enhance your speed, win initiative and charge him.
Strangle him to death!Good point, well you are dead then.
You could go rogue on him, take some cross-class ranks in hide, invest in shadow armor and sneak up on him and power attack him. While you are hiding his buffs will wear off. Still have to deal with those nasty summoned creatures though.
He'll happily buff and then use a spell to see you or call up a Solar and see if that can see you.
Maybe you could begin the first round of combat by declaring "What's your strength? Are you carrying your spellbook? Ha! You have medium encumbrance!!!" Then try loading him up with weighted vests until he collapses and is unable to move.
Man, thats brilliant.
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For one thing no rules in core on how to do this. I'm wondering about these silence arrows as well. Where did they come from? I don't recall silenced arrow as a standard magic item.Why not just have the poison applied to the arrows ahead of time?Or fill the bottom of the quiver with it so it coats ALL the arrows?
The "silence" arrows are arrows of spell storing with the silence spell cast into them, the cost of purchasing such arrows is outlined in the DMG. Poison is also covered there.
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Hmmm, Contingency is an exception to the 'no pre-buffing' rule then? (which I assumed was in effect?)
If it is, get one yourself with an Anti-Magic Field, that should at least somewhat even things out (as pointed out, the PHB has rules for 3d party spell-casting)
As for spells in a Time Stop, I'd probably go along the lines of Displacement and/or Stoneskin. Stoneskin is negated by Adamantine (bring adamant arrows! that'll render at least one spell he's probably going to use pointless.)
Displacement and Invisibility effects can be disabled by True Seeing; so try to fetch something that grants it as well.Personally I'd find summoning a bit lame; it's fighter vs. wizard, not summoned Balor vs. fighter. But, if he goes that way, pick up Candles of Invocation and do the same to keep him busy.
I don't think summoning is lame at all. Summon spells are amongst the best and most versatile in a Wizard's or Sorcerers arsenal. There was nothing in the original scenario that said that the Wizard had to limit his spell selection to certain schools. If I were playing the Wizard in this scenario I would have Gate for certain as one of my memorized spells or on a scroll at a minimum. There isn't anything unfair about it, it is just one of the things a Wizard can do with their spells. If the fight gets to that point, the fighter is sure to lose, which is why it is so important to build a strategy that tries to stop the Wizard from casting. The Wiz's first spell cast will be Time Stop guaranteed. After that it just depends on the players personality, but likely Gate and either Iron Body or Stoneskin will be the next two cast during the timestop.
It is an insanely hard scenario. Fighters just aren't made to fight a high level Wizard one on one. Still, that is the scenario the original poster is faced with, so we are all trying to find ways to help him win.
So what keeps the Wizard from going Time Stop, Gate, Teleport to safety and let the Solar fix things?
Possibly add up a few more Summon Monster VIII if the Solar seems unable to manage on its own.
Maybe it's just style but it's not how I envision a Wizard vs. Fighter duel. Perhaps the Fighter should take Leadership and field an army then, just because he can? The Cohort might help too.
Thats the other scenario I'm trying to envision (Summoning). I can only carry so many arrows:) And the other player is exactly the kind of player to let a summoned critter do the job for him. We discussed the contingency thing, and since it technically occurs as part of his morning spell prep, I had to allow it, or else we both would have had to "get dressed" in the arena. The "teleport to safety" idea isn't bad, but has to pass the DMs adjudication as a victory. I doubt it would pass muster.
EDIT: So if I pick up a rod of absorption, can I just carry it around with me and have it absorb stuff, or do I have to actually wield it?
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So what keeps the Wizard from going Time Stop, Gate, Teleport to safety and let the Solar fix things?
Possibly add up a few more Summon Monster VIII if the Solar seems unable to manage on its own.
Maybe it's just style but it's not how I envision a Wizard vs. Fighter duel. Perhaps the Fighter should take Leadership and field an army then, just because he can? The Cohort might help too.
What "should" the Wizard do? Hurl lightning bolts and fireballs and that's it? How is summoning creatures any less wizardly than Time Stop? It has been pointed out that this is very nearly an impossible battle for the fighter. If the Wizard pulls punches by not casting his best spells, then if the fighter wins it isn't really a win at all because the Wizard wasn't trying his best. Both players have to give it their all or the outcome of the test is invalid.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Maybe it's just style but it's not how I envision a Wizard vs. Fighter duel. Perhaps the Fighter should take Leadership and field an army then, just because he can? The Cohort might help too.
That is pure genius, though probably outside the spirit of the competition. If the fighter took leadership with a cleric or wizard cohort to launch dispel magics, that could really mitigate some of the wizard's advantages.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Man, thats brilliant.Maybe you could begin the first round of combat by declaring "What's your strength? Are you carrying your spellbook? Ha! You have medium encumbrance!!!" Then try loading him up with weighted vests until he collapses and is unable to move.
That's how my party defeated Kyuss.
I don't find fielding an army of followers any more outside of the competition then fielding an army of summoned creatures. Yes, I was envisioning a one-on-one combat, since that is usually how battles are fought ;)
But hell, if he goes the summoning way, a Circle of Protection can protect you from summoned creatures as well as give some other bonusses, right?
Hmmm... good point. We specifically ruled out leadership, but not summoning. then again, if we had allowwed leadership, we'd just end up with legions of minor spellcasters dispelling each other, while the primary combatants circled each other and growled. Meh.
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The difference is that the Summoned Creature is only there for a specific duration, whereas a follower technically is there indefinately. In a campaign, that is not an unclear distinction. Unfortunately, in the one on one battle, a Gated creature will likely be there for the entire battle.
My only concern is if you start limiting what spells the Wizard can cast, then why bother with this test at all? Just say something like "if a Wizard is nerfed by being required to only cast spells from the school of divination, then the fighter will kick his butt!!" I don't see how it proves anything.
You have to be able to pin him down...
Which is exactly why I suggeted something that creates an anti-magic area. No spells, no mage...*splash*, *haze of red slowly drifting to the ground*, *chuckle*
If I were a mage, the first thing I would do after casting time stop would be to get fly into effect, and then, as time allowed, spells such as stoneskin, displacement, and gate. Fly is paramount because it immediately gives him a massive mobility advantage. I'm surprised no one has listed it in their options of spells to cast inside of a time stop.
Actually, screw displacement. Try greater invisibility.
Leadership does seem wrong to me. If you use Leadership to allow the fighter to have a spellcasting cohort, why bother? This needs to be a contest of class vs. class. Things like a Dearn's instant fortress also seem to violate the spirit to me, because any class could do that. It's a fine line, since other classes could also use a magical bow, I admit.
At the same time, I wouldn't limit the wizard to non-summoning spells, as that is clearly a wizard class ability. Sorry- you've just got to deal with gated monsters, or find a way to stop him.
I feel the line is blurred beyond my ability to adjudicate regarding the issue of the candle of invocation. Good thing I'm not in charge of administering this contest!
Also, don't forget about potions. Some healing and other effects will be handy to keep around (although there goes that blurry line again...). Perhaps both participants should have potions banned? But then, what about scrolls and wands? Hmph. Make sure you address these things before you start. It doesn't really matter overall, since this fight doesn't really prove anything. You just have to both agree on a spirit for the combat and a set of conditions you both find equitable.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I just remembered that the OP commented that he was thinking about playing a drow. This leads me to assume that RACE may become an important issue as well. Sure, most of us said human for the extra feat, but what if the wizard's player chooses a race that can naturally fly without magic? Or chooses a Large race that won't be grappled so easily?
Man, race should have been enforced for this exercise. Human only, no one-shot or limited use magical items. Only permanent magical items (like weapons, amulets, bracers, etc.) allowed. Also, no magical items with abilities that are only useable X times per day.
As it stands, this competition is going to be skewed WAY out of rational proportion.
And my money is definitely on the wizard, no offense to the OP.
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As to limiting these builds to the core books, I would like to say that the Mage-slayer feats were definitely made to fill a gap in the fighter's odds. No dispute from me that the wizard has some heavy advantages. I wouldn't rule out use of Detect Thoughts for finding the sneakier sword-swingers. Now, let's go back to helping the underdog.
What's the high score on an elite array PC? 15? 17? With an item or two, your hits should come out at about +28. Charge and Power Attack with a Glaive (take maybe a -15 to hit, +30 damage). Now, if that weapon is +4 you're looking at... 47 damage on the first swing? I don't think the fighter looks weak at all right there.
Strength: 15+ 2 (manual of excercise)+ 4 (level increase) +6 (belt)=27
Attack bonus: 18 base + 4 (weapon) + 2 (charge) + STR mod (8) + 1 luck (luckstone, it's better than you thought)+ 2 (Imp. Weapon Focus) - Power Attack 15 = +20 to hit, that should be fine vs. AC 26 if the wizard has given half a thought to Bracers of Armor.
Damage =1d10+ 4 (weapon)+ 30 (power attack) + 4 (improved weapon spec.) + 12 (Str Mod x1.5)= Around 55 damage. Don't fret over my loose math, I haven't been able to game in a few months to keep sharp.
I deliberately left some tweaking unfinished, because I'm guessing item values from memory.
For some field advantages, the Quaal's Tokens were a great idea. A Bottle of Smoke might come in handy, as I think it gives a Fort save to avoid a coughing fit. There's also the option of thowing a net on a wizard who doesn't have freedom of movement effects; -4 for an exotic weapon isn't that big a deal at level 18. Make it a hooked net if that's available. And speaking of throwing items that 'entangle', Iron Bands of Bilaro are quite the upgrade from tanglefoot bags. Now you have grappling options without dumping a lot of good feats into it.
Addendum: I seem to recall that the reason Summon Monster 9 exists is because Gate has other bonuses and drawbacks. Bonus= ability to summon creatures up to twice your caster level in HD. Drawback= they're not automatically under your control. Watch out for the persuasive fighter (Diplomacy or Intimidation).
Potions- Need to get some. What would you suggest?
Races- PHB only, per OP. Was lamenting my inability to get SR that is worht a damn at this level :)
Net- Not a bad idea really. Wish it had better range, but if I keep one on me, it could come in handy.
I appreciate your math skills up there, but I think I will stick with the archer build. Within the constraints of the arena, if I can see him, I can reach him. My concern about the antimagic field is this- it will nerf my gear too, taking away serveral points of dex and such. Anyone come up with a good ruling on the rod of absorbtion?
For one thing no rules in core on how to do this. I'm wondering about these silence arrows as well. Where did they come from? I don't recall silenced arrow as a standard magic item.The "silence" arrows are arrows of spell storing with the silence spell cast into them, the cost of purchasing such arrows is outlined in the DMG. Poison is also covered there.
OK I see this now - the only weak point would be the DC 12 Will Save. 18th level wizard has +11 to Will saves. So he blows the roll on a natural 1 and only a natural 1 unless he has a wisdom penalty to his Will Save (possible in such a fight with point buy - somethings got to be dump the dump stat if one wants higher other stats).
How long it takes to apply a poison does not seem to be covered in the DMG but applying an oil is a standard action and I'd assume it would take the same amount of tume to apply a poison. That might be too long, though that Purple Worm Poison has possabilities. It does 1d6 inititial strength damage and a DC of 24. Even an 18th level wizard might blow a DC 24 Fort save. Two arrows with this stuff on it could incapacitate the wizard.
My mistake. Gated creatures are only free-willed if they exceed HD= 2x caster level. The flipside is this version of Gate costs XP.
Not sure how to get around the Gate spell. Most summonings take a full round action. That means the Wizard has to stand there and make funny noises for so long that there is enough time to fill him full of arrows and hope that he ultimatly blows his concentration check. But Gates just a standard action - and voila 1 Solar, with 9th level spells of its own (albiet not the best ones if a standard Solar shows up and I assume thats what you get). Still if the Wizard Gates in a Solar I think its almost over with right there.
What are your battle royal rules on casting spells with XP costs? 1,000 XP is not huge but its a factor but a wizard needs 18,000 XP to get to 19th level so it is a notable amount.
Potions- Need to get some. What would you suggest?
Will you really have time to be lollygagging and drinking poitons? I have a hard time thinking of any potion so good that allowing the wizard another round to cast spells would be a good idea. I say spend every dime on stuff that helps you kill the wizard or stuff that nerfs something the wizard could do to you.
Hmm...Greater Slaying Arrows - you need to buy extra because you don't know your enemies race but their only a little more then 4,000 GP a pop. A wizard has crappy Fort saves. +9 from base class assuming a very good con of 16. thats 60% chance to kill with each hit - until the wizard gets up buff spells that is. I'd pick up some of these and hope for the kill on round 1 if you can win inititive.
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For one thing no rules in core on how to do this. I'm wondering about these silence arrows as well. Where did they come from? I don't recall silenced arrow as a standard magic item.The "silence" arrows are arrows of spell storing with the silence spell cast into them, the cost of purchasing such arrows is outlined in the DMG. Poison is also covered there.
OK I see this now - the only weak point would be the DC 12 Will Save. 18th level wizard has +11 to Will saves. So he blows the roll on a natural 1 and only a natural 1 unless he has a wisdom penalty to his Will Save (possible in such a fight with point buy - somethings got to be dump the dump stat if one wants higher other stats).
How long it takes to apply a poison does not seem to be covered in the DMG but applying an oil is a standard action and I'd assume it would take the same amount of tume to apply a poison. That might be too long, though that Purple Worm Poison has possabilities. It does 1d6 inititial strength damage and a DC of 24. Even an 18th level wizard might blow a DC 24 Fort save. Two arrows with this stuff on it could incapacitate the wizard.
One possibility to overcome the will save problem is to target the arrow at an object near the Wizard that will be certain to fail it's saving throw, like a tree. It is unorthodox, but might by you time while the Wizard moves out of the silence area. I think the greater slaying arrows is smart, but he needs to get at least a couple for every race in the PHB to cover his bases.
Or something sticky that will attach to the wizard? Not sure here...
What are your battle royal rules on casting spells with XP costs? 1,000 XP is not huge but its a factor but a wizard needs 18,000 XP to get to 19th level so it is a notable amount.
Bingo! Meta-gaming rules-lawyering FTW!!!
If you all start at the base XP for 18th level (as you should), he can't use gate! A spell with an XP costs of even 1 would drop him a level, which the rules don't allow you to do. Therefore, gate should be out of the question. Talk to the officiating DM about this. Of course, that still leaves time stop, but hey, it's one cannon disabled. Take all the help you can get.
Yeah, I've been batting this idea about a bit. Also gotta make sure he is buying his scrolls, wands, etc, vice making them. The show down is tomorrow, so if any of ya'll are near Tampa, feel free to stop by Sacred Grounds around 2 (http://www.sacredgroundstampa.com/). I can use all the moral support I can get when I get crushed :)
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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What are your battle royal rules on casting spells with XP costs? 1,000 XP is not huge but its a factor but a wizard needs 18,000 XP to get to 19th level so it is a notable amount.Bingo! Meta-gaming rules-lawyering FTW!!!
If you all start at the base XP for 18th level (as you should), he can't use gate! A spell with an XP costs of even 1 would drop him a level, which the rules don't allow you to do. Therefore, gate should be out of the question.
I don't think I've seen this rule. The way I understood it, a character could burn XP to his heart's content, even dropping below the threshold of his currently level, and that the only real drawback was that it would take him longer to reach the NEXT level. Example:
18th level wizard needs 18,000xp to reach level 19. He casts gate, which costs him 1000xp. Now he needs 19,000xp to reach 19, but is STILL level 18.
Maybe I'm thinking of a 3.0 rule? Maybe I'm crazy? Hell if I know. I thought I saw this somewhere...
If you exceed the XP requirement for the next level, you can choose to remain your current level and burn XP. But, if you go to the next level, you can't burn an amount of XP if it would drop you to the previous level. I don't know where it's written, but it's in the PHB, I'm fairly certain. Can someone support me from the SRD or the PHB?
Underhanded? Yes.
Dirty? Yes.
Meta-gaming? Oh, hell yes.
Outside the spirit of the rules in almost every way? Yep.
Effective? Yes. >:)
XP Cost (XP)
Some powerful spells entail an experience point cost to you. No spell can restore the XP lost in this manner. You cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level, so you cannot cast the spell unless you have enough XP to spare. However, you may, on gaining enough XP to attain a new level, use those XP for casting a spell rather than keeping them and advancing a level. The XP are treated just like a material component—expended when you cast the spell, whether or not the casting succeeds.
From teh SRD :)
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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XP Cost (XP)
Some powerful spells entail an experience point cost to you. No spell can restore the XP lost in this manner. You cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level, so you cannot cast the spell unless you have enough XP to spare. However, you may, on gaining enough XP to attain a new level, use those XP for casting a spell rather than keeping them and advancing a level. The XP are treated just like a material component—expended when you cast the spell, whether or not the casting succeeds.From teh SRD :)
Aha. Okay then, that might be something in your favor then. A little bit of a cheesy way to get an edge, but you're outgunned already, so it's not so bad. ;)
Ok, so here is the Play-by-play of the Fighter v Wizard Duel. To sum up the rules again:
18th level, PHB races, PHB, DMG, MM only. Played on a 48x36? mega mat, roll randomly for grid location. No spell effects or buffing rounds. Best 2:3, (later expanded)
First Game
1. About 80 ft apart, open field
a. Ftr wins initiative, Readies Manyshot for any movement by the Wizard
b. Wizard starts to cast, FTR attacks, but Wiz has Contingency:Teleport in place. Moves 60? behind Ftr and casts Quicken Dispell, which kills Cloak of Res, and PW:Blind, which is absorbed by Amulet of Absorption. Amulet is examined, and allowed for current game, but FTR has to go back to Ioun Stone/ Scarab of protection combo for future rounds.
c. FTR Full attacks, hits 4/5, 53 damage (I think I forgot to add non-die damage[11 per hit])
d. Wiz casts meteor Swarm, FTR saves, but takes 88 pts damage.
e. Ftr full attacks, 4 hits, 1 Crit, 87 pts damage, Wizard Dead
f. Round 1 to Ftr
2. About 60 ft apart, open field again.
a. FTR Wins initiative, uses Dust of Disappearance, and moves 30'
b. Wiz Casts meteor swarm in cloverleaf pattern, 1 misses, FTR saves v 3, takes LOTS of damage
c. FTR Full Attack, all hit, 122 damage
d. WIZ casts Prismatic Wall, Quicken Prot from arrows
e. FTR maneuvers around wall, Manyshot, 3 hit, Wizard Dead.
f. Round 2 to Ftr
3. Random junk on field, some provides ½ cover, some total. End up about 30ft apart.
a. FTR Wins init, attempts to grapple wizzy, Contingency Teleports away
b. Wiz casts Dispell on Ioun Stone, no luck, Quicken Dispell nerfs it for 4 rounds.
c. Ftr Manyshots wizzy and moves behind column, 86 pts damage to wizzy
d. Wizzy Q: Exped Retreat, PW: Blind- FTR Blinded for 5 rnds
e. FTR Manyshots last known position of Wizzy. Seeking special quality on bow overcomes blindness miss chance, 3 hits, dead wizzy
f. Round 3 to FTR
4. At this point, the contention was that if the wizzy won initiative, the game would go differently. Ok, FTR allows Wizzy first move. Field still full of random junk.
a. Wiz Q Dispell: Cloak of Resist, Dispell: Ioun Stone, both work
b. FTR uses dust of disappearance, moves to 10' from wizzy.
c. Wizzy can't detect FTR, casts Fly, up 30 ft
d. FTR Manyshots wizzy, who Contingency Teleports away.
e. Wizzy casts meteor swarm, save v 3, take full damage from one. 106 HP lost
f. FTR Full attacks 5 hits, one of them a crit. Wizzy dies.
g. Round 4 to FTR
5. Again, the Wiz goes first (no init rolled, FTR just lets him go first)
a. Wiz Quicken Dispell Ioun Stone, Dispell Cloak of resist.
b. FTR Manyshot, Wizzy contingency teleport
c. Wiz casts Disintegration. FTR saves!!!
d. FTR Manyshots, all 4 hit
e. Wiz attempts another Disintegrate, FTR saves!!!
f. FTR full attacks, wizzy dies
g. Round 5, fighter.
FTR wins all 5 rounds. Pretty amazing huh? Avg save DCs for wizzy's spells were 30, and wizzy kept initial selection of spells throughout all 5 games. Both had about 139 HP, Wizzy AC 30, FTR AC 22, all dex and deflection.
Now before we draw the wrong conclusion, I think its important to point out several factors. One is prep time. The FTR was the end result of 2 weeks of tweaking, the wiz was thrown together last night. Also, the FTR used all of his gold, while the Wizzy had about 50K GP left. The FTR also rolled well, while the wizzy had trouble throughout, but that's why we use dice I guess. The FTR build was a fairly common pure archer, with all save bonus feats and spring attack. The Wizzy was a focused in 3 areas (Necro, Trans, and Ench). Both are playable characters, though the fighters low AC would hurt him in a melee focused game. FTR used Greater Slaying arrows in the second round of each combat (2 per attempt) but wizzy saved v all of them. Also, we were not using massive damage rules, though that was really more a factor for the wizzy v crits from a bane, shocking burst upgraded oathbow.
So what can we take away? The FTR, while perhaps lacking in "Gee whiz" factor, is still a potent combatant at high levels. Had the wizzy prepared different spells, this could have gone totally in his favor. Likewise, had the FTR not gotten several crits, the wizzy would have had more time to buff, summon, or maneuver for position. In the end, it came down to winning initiative and good rolls. Thanks to all the gang at the Paizo board for helping me wargame this, and for my good friend Wayne/Oni for being my pincushion... err... Master Wizard. Fighter FTW!!!
Congradulations!!! While luck and preperation were on your side let us not underestimate tactical skill.
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Hmmm interesting results.
Some thoughts on the wizard. Why didnt he use any of the following:
Leomund's Secure Shelter (from wand to negate casting time, to allow cover or a place to buff)?
Leomund's Hut?
Resilient Sphere (on self, to get time to buff, then engage)
Wall of force/stone?
Cube of Force?
Wind Wall?
Instant Fortress?
One of the elemental rings of command might have been useful too.
What about a Bag of Holding and a Portable Hole? Put the bag in the hole for a quick trip to the Astral Plane. The fighter gets one set of arrows off and then the wizard is free to buff, then plane shift back and teleport into the arena or, if he wanted to be nasty about it, enter a color pool to some good aligned plane, cast Astral Projection, form a temporary body, plane shift back to fight fighter and if the wizard perishes, he simply return to the plane of origin to do it again until the fighter runs out of arrows.
I read only some of the previous 150+ posts on this topic and thus might have missed some of the rules of engagement, but I would think that the wizard would first and foremost want to protect himself rather than hurt the fighter or dispel the fighter's magics. Once he was good and buffed, he can go after the fighter. He should be able to attack the fighter in ways the fighter cannot prevent, like shapechanging into a medusa and using his gaze attack from the ethereal plane, perhaps after buffs allowed by one of the items above or the bag-in-hole approach to grant time on the astral plane.
Edited to remove Stoneskin and Iron Body suggestions since the DR is easily overcome by the fighter's adamant arrows
I am amazed by the results as well. I've got the feeling that you were dealing with an unpreprared wizard, which equals a dead wizard.
I don't get why the wizard spend some rounds trying to dispel your gear while he should have been blasting you with meteor storm and a quickened fireball.
no timestop??
arghhh, this wizzy needed to die!
Seriously. That was one dumb wizard player. No time stop? WTF? Why the hell was he trying to dispel your gear? That's about one of the most inefficient tactics he could have chosen. Hell, magic missiling you to death would have probably been smarter! The first thing any compotent wizard does is make himself invulnerable- once he's got a decent amount of buffs up, he can direct damage and debuff the fighter to death.
So, it came down to planning vs. not planning, with the end result of planning winning. Bah.
EDIT- Oh, and congratulations on the win, but I really think you need a rematch against a compotent wizard to achieve what this "test" set out to do.
I agree. The wizzy was played inefficiently, but the end result is still that the FTR 18 stayed competitive v the WIZ 18, which is exactly the opposite of what "should" have happened. With my saves as high as they were (22 Fort, 24 Ref, 17 Wis) the wizzy felt he had to de buff me to do any real damage. Partially correct, but him wasting his time doing that allowed me to hit him, and I only needed 2 rounds to do it. Staying out of range helped too. He had given up on trying to out-AC me, so it was failry easy to do big damage every round. The lack of time stop/ etc combos surprised me, but I think he had probably never played a wizard at this level for any length of time, while I have played plenty of fighter-types to high levels. Still, even had he the opportunity to buff for a couple rounds, there weren't many spells that could save him from taking damage, and dishing damage is what the FTR does.
Still, even had he the opportunity to buff for a couple rounds, there weren't many spells that could save him from taking damage, and dishing damage is what the FTR does.
The only thing he had to do was cast a quickened improved invisibility most of the time. At 180 feet that would give him enough protection from your missiles. And then........let the hurting begin.
I have never played a 18th level wizard before but that does not prevent me to come up with a workable strategy.....
Many congratulations, Ender. That he wasn't prepared wasn't your problem. You did what you had to do and you did us all proud.
NOW... let's reverse it. 18th level wizard vs 18th level fighter. How could the wizard win this and win this easily, time after time?
Same rules as before, including the addition of no cohort/armies for the fighter and no gate spell because of the absence of xps to burn (which suggests a 19th level wizard vs a 19th level fighter might likely be a blowout for the wizard).
I know time stop with delayed blast this and thats set in place and a teleport spell is a great strategy in place. Any others? Extra points will be awarded for cruelty.
Ender, play the part of the wizard this time and beat him five times in a row. That will solidify you as RPG samurai. Whenever, in future, he says class X is better in battle than class Y you could always argue, "That depends... which side am I taking?
OK,
reverse gravity, this will give you distance and if the fighter is without a ring of feather falling a nice bloody stain after 18 rounds.
As the fighter is falling, you can go improved invisible + fly and kill him using magic missile ;>
Crushing hand is good, unless the fighter had an amulet of freedom of movement
OK,
reverse gravity, this will give you distance and if the fighter is without a ring of feather falling a nice bloody stain after 18 rounds.
As the fighter is falling, you can go improved invisible + fly and kill him using magic missile ;>Crushing hand is good, unless the fighter had an amulet of freedom of movement
Niiice. What's the lowest level a wizard could be to have access to that fighterdrop cocktail? Seems you've got even greater powers to spare. Mwoo ha ha ha.
Niiice. What's the lowest level a wizard could be to have access to that fighterdrop cocktail? Seems you've got even greater powers to spare. Mwoo ha ha ha.OK,
reverse gravity, this will give you distance and if the fighter is without a ring of feather falling a nice bloody stain after 18 rounds.
As the fighter is falling, you can go improved invisible + fly and kill him using magic missile ;>Crushing hand is good, unless the fighter had an amulet of freedom of movement
Level 13, without a ceiling this one becomes nasty quite fast.
Level 13, without a ceiling this one becomes nasty quite fast.
Extra points awarded!
Cruel, Jade?
>:) You just earned yourself your own scary theme music to be played whenever you enter a room. Egads, that was nasty!
What would any of you do to defend your fighter from such an arcane bloodbath?
That's a strange comment a heard a while back here, but don't remember the thread. "But, the fighter's magical gear won't work in an antimagic field!" So? Neither will the spells of the wizard who's caught in it, turning the mage into a glorified commoner. When faced with that "opposition," it doesn't really matter if the fighter's only using masterwork.
Fighters win in most antimagic fields.