If somebody submitted high quality adventures, would Dungeon be at all interested in publishing a 12 part adventure path tailor made specifically for Eberron?
Oh man, I hope not.
Why not? They can build specifically for Greyhawk but not Eb?
Well, with the disclaimer that I like Eberron, have DM'd and played in it, and buy most of the sourcebooks....
I wouldn't want to see an Eberron (or Forgotten Realms) AP*
Eberron and the Realms get love from WotC in sourcebooks and novels.
Greyhawk has essentially nothing if not for Paizo.
Combine the lack of Greyhawk support elsewhere with the seemingly large % of Greyhawk fans here on these boards, and it seems to be a no-brainer that Paizo will keep on supporting Greyhawk with APs.
Greyhawk is also "generic" in that it has the advantage of having the default cosmology, planar powers and Gods associated with the Core rules. And since APs by definition end up verging on Epic play, it is just simpler to go with the default cosmology.
Let Eberron and the Realms get support through good indivdual adventures, but leave the APs to Greyhawk.
*While I don't necessarily want to see Eberron or Realms 12 part APs, I am a big fan of 3 part APs, whether they are Eberron, FR or other. (I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of Sehan after seeing all the veiled hints about it earlier)
A great 12 adventure Eberron AP would be cool if it were published outside of Dungeon as modules, but beyond that, the three adventure arcs are probably the only ones that would end up being campaign specific. It's just easier to work from the baseline into a specific campaign setting rather than the other way around, since many subscribers use Greyhawk or a homebrew in increasing numbers than Eberron or Forgotten Realms.
It may be cool to write adventures at different plateaus of power for that setting (such as an adventure for third level characters, with an eigth level follow up, a twelfth level follow up to that, etc.) to have the opportunity to sprinkle other adventures between, but to have recurring themes tying the campaign together.
Ok. So what you guys are saying, generally, is that you wouldn't want a consecutive 12 part Eberron specific AP, but if 12 connected Eberron adventures were printed in 3 part sets over a span of, say, two years, that would be better?
I hope they do so I can complain about the slow production of Greyhawk conversion notes.
ZING! Nice one, HH.
As Greyhawk is more a "default" setting which is easier to change into FR or Eberron or most homebrews, I can see a point in preferring a GH 12-part adventure path opposed to Eberron one. Vanilla goes together with many flavor (and that comment will rise the wrath of GH fans here).
That said, generally I would like to see shorter APs than these 12-part from 1st to 20th level paths...a three-parter on level 1, 3 and 5 involving Bargle, anyone?
Ok. So what you guys are saying, generally, is that you wouldn't want a consecutive 12 part Eberron specific AP, but if 12 connected Eberron adventures were printed in 3 part sets over a span of, say, two years, that would be better?
Two years is to fast. I'd be willing to see an adventure like this once per quater.
As Greyhawk is more a "default" setting which is easier to change into FR or Eberron or most homebrews, I can see a point in preferring a GH 12-part adventure path opposed to Eberron one. Vanilla goes together with many flavor (and that comment will rise the wrath of GH fans here).
Precisely. I don't want Greyhawk APs because I love Greyhawk...actually I don't have any particular use for Greyhawk at all. However Greyhawk is usually pretty easy to convert into my homebrew. Eberron on the other hand is probably not - at least not if its really good Eberron.
A convertible Ebberon AP would require the removal of all Ebberon-based elements, which would by default make it a non-Ebberon AP.
Oooh. My head hurts now.
I'd rather WOTC publish something like that anyway . . .
Any input from a Paizo editor on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
I would actually like to see an Eberron AP. I really like Eberron a lot, but I have yet to actually run a campaign there. Maybe once my current group finishes the Age of Worms AP (we play sloooowly... what can I say?).
I think Eberron features a lot of really cool, original ideas not found in other settings, nor explored in previous editions and/or game products. But most of the published adventures (to date) have been pretty weak. A good, solid, well-developed AP would really help encourage more people to give the setting a try, I think.
But it would be very hard to convert it to anything non-Eberron, so I can see the wisdom (from a business point of view) of trying to stay neutral and make as many people as happy as possible. But I really don't get the amount of "eberron hate" so many on these boards seem to have. Have you *read* the campaign setting book? There's really a lot of good stuff in there! I'm using lots of eberron material in my AoW - even though it's technically GreyHawk. Take what you like, ignore what you don't, etc., etc.
I would actually like to see an Eberron AP. I really like Eberron a lot, but I have yet to actually run a campaign there. Maybe once my current group finishes the Age of Worms AP (we play sloooowly... what can I say?).
I think Eberron features a lot of really cool, original ideas not found in other settings, nor explored in previous editions and/or game products. But most of the published adventures (to date) have been pretty weak. A good, solid, well-developed AP would really help encourage more people to give the setting a try, I think.
But it would be very hard to convert it to anything non-Eberron, so I can see the wisdom (from a business point of view) of trying to stay neutral and make as many people as happy as possible. But I really don't get the amount of "eberron hate" so many on these boards seem to have. Have you *read* the campaign setting book? There's really a lot of good stuff in there! I'm using lots of eberron material in my AoW - even though it's technically GreyHawk. Take what you like, ignore what you don't, etc., etc.
I can certainly understand that viewpoint, but this poses one major obstacle for dedicated Eberron players. Just as Eberron would be difficult to convert to Greyhawk, Greyhawk is also very difficult to convert to Eberron. The entire tone of the Eberron campaign setting is fundamentally different from the rest of D&D, Greyhawk included. For instance, most Greyhawk adventures are based around dungeon crawls and long travel sequences. Take the current Savage Tide adventure path as an example. It has been largely composed of sea travel interspersed with dungeon crawls. There's nothing wrong with this. I love the AP, and it's great as a Greyhawk material. But it becomes impossible to effectively convert to Eberron because of the heavy emphasis on water travel. I can already tell you what the PCs will say. "Why don't we just take a skyship? It would be a hell of alot faster." So Eberron DMs are forced to either make some lame excuse about why the skyship can't be used in "Sea Wyvern's Wake" or completely rewrite just about every encounter to support the skyship dynamics, at which point it isn't Savage Tide anymore. There's also the intrigue issue. In the Eberron Campaign Setting, Baker says that Eb adventures should be composed mainly of intricate intrigue interspersed with short, furious combat sequences. Most Greyhawk adventures just aren't built this way. And we won't even get into planar cosmology issues. That would require an entirely separate thread.
I guess my major complaint is that most of the Eberron features can't be taken advantage of by converting adventures from Greyhawk. What good is there in having skyships, lightning rails, intricate international intrigue relationships, and all of the defining characteristics of the Eberron adventure setting if you can't use them effectively. Converting GH to Eb can allow you to provide a basic Eberron flavor, but it doesn't allow you to take full advantage of the setting's features without putting hours and hours of work into completely reorganizing every adventure. Jeremy MacDonald was right when he said that a good, well written Eberron adventure would be nigh impossible to convert to Greyhawk. Well it works both ways. It's damn near impossible to take any GH or FR module and convert it into a convincing, fully rewarding Eberron adventure. I can't wait to see the day that Eberron DMs can simply unwrap their mag and run the adventure without having to deal with any conversion headaches. This is something Greyhawk and FR players have been able to do for years.
It's damn near impossible to take any GH or FR module and convert it into a convincing, fully rewarding Eberron adventure. I can't wait to see the day that Eberron DMs can simply unwrap their mag and run the adventure without having to deal with any conversion headaches. This is something Greyhawk and FR players have been able to do for years.
The Greyhawk and FR fans get to have their cake and eat it to because they run standard sword and sorcery campaigns. I see your point but outside of a handful of adventures per year I can't believe you'll ever really get your wish. Eberron is just to innovative, it will never be cookie cutter enough to be easily slotted easily into anyone's campaign and therefore will never become the standard - not unless there is some kind of paradigm shift in the standard view of what constitutes the sword and sorcery genre. Since that seems essentially inconceivable your basically out of luck.
At the end of the day your just going to have to do heavy conversions to the adventures to make them take advantage of what Eberron has to offer. Your not alone - somewhere out there is a DM trying to make the Savage Tide AP work for their Spelljammer or Darksun campaign.
... Your not alone - somewhere out there is a DM trying to make the Savage Tide AP work for their Spelljammer or Darksun campaign.
I'm surprised it hasn't occured to me earlier. Time to go and dig out my Spelljammer box set and the last 6 issues of Dungeon :-)
If there is anything cooler than Demon Pirates.... its Demon SPACE Pirates!
That's okay, the middle part of the current Adventure Path was actually being played in Mystara anyway.
;)
GGG
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Just as Eberron would be difficult to convert to Greyhawk, Greyhawk is also very difficult to convert to Eberron.
But it's not quite the same nonetheless. To convert something from Greyhawk to Eberron, you basically have to replace/add stuff, in the other direction you have to replace/delete it. I think the second is the more difficult thing to do. While you are free to add as much eberronian sugar as your time allows you to do, you have absolutely no choice when it comes to deconstruction; you must delete/replace each and every single eberron-specific detail.
The main difference (with Greyhawk being the generic D&D world) is that all those things you find there you can easily have in Eberron as well. But in Greyhawk, the Realms or other traditional worlds there is no equivalent for, say, the lightning rail. Sure, you can replace it, but you will definitely lose something, especially if the lightning rail thing was about speed.There is another thing you should be aware of. The greater part of the ECS is about low-and mid-level-chars. While there are things which can challenge even high-level-PCs, I think Eberron is not the best setting for this kind of adventure. To get a real good Eberron-AP, you'd have to steep the AP deep in the Eberron history and geography, which would make it real difficult to convert it into other settings without to rewrite basically the whole AP.
With Greyhawk it's another thing. There are a lot of regions where not much information is available, so you can integrate those APs in Greyhawk without using too much campaign-specific information. And in this respect Paizo has made a really good job so far. There is a lot of Greyhawk/Mystara history which surely enriches your game, if you play there. But all this information is background information which can easily be replaced for the other settings without losing flair and athmosphere.
So I think it's the right thing to stay in Greyhawk, even if it means a bit of work for me. Hey, this work is the reason i DM anyway.
WQ