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** SPOILERS **
So the huecuva became undead because he violated the tenants of his faith by turning into a cannibal, right? And there were a couple others among those trapped in the tunnels that did the same thing? So why then are the other undead in the tunnels corporeal (zombies)? Shouldn't they be skeletons made of gnawed bones or shadows or something? It seems like none of them should have any flesh left at all.
Or did I miss something?
I thought about replacing the zombies with a bunch of skeletons, or possibly with a couple of ghouls. Any suggestions?
I'd say go for it, my own players just sort of accepted the "fleshy" nature of his minions, but they cut me more slack when I run pre-mades; if it was my homebrew, they'd have started asking those sort of questions.
The John Romero zombie that shambles along and tries to eat you is a very classic and viscerally creepy image, one that is surprisingly lacking from the default D&D zombie, without the application of the Ravenous or what have you template.
A bunch of skeletons with teeth filed to sharp points and gnaw marks all over them could be just as creepy. Do what wierds out your players best, with the cannibal theme.
Sorry, Bard, I don't buy it.
Being attacked by zombies just isn't scary. Being attacked by zombies who are trying to eat you, though, that's freaky. I'd completely missed the implications of ravenous zombies until someone on these boards pointed it out to me.
No one's going to be afraid of skeletons trying to eat you, because skellingtons got no bellies. I promise you, a zombie taking a bight out of your PCs is going to cause a stir. A skeleton taking a bite is just using a different natural weapon.
I think it's too much to lose to have a "logical undead canibal victim". If you must doctor them up, you can describe how some of them have exposed bones and bite marks on them (although whether that's from how they died or more recent marks from their "friends" is up to the players to interpret)
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I think it's too much to lose to have a "logical undead canibal victim". If you must doctor them up, you can describe how some of them have exposed bones and bite marks on them (although whether that's from how they died or more recent marks from their "friends" is up to the players to interpret)
Yeah. That's why I think I'm personally going to go with a couple of ghouls (with bite marks where they've attempted to eat one another), and a whole bunch of skeleton victims. My PCs are a little more powerful than they should be at this point, so they should be able to handle a couple of ghouls. And I'm keeping the Huecuva.
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So why then are the other undead in the tunnels corporeal (zombies)? Shouldn't they be skeletons made of gnawed bones or shadows or something? It seems like none of them should have any flesh left at all.
Not necessarily.... This is all my interpretation, so make of it what you will. The zombie (and huecuva) guys, well they're the ones that did the cannibalizing rather than the victims thereof, so that's why they have their flesh. The actual victims of cannibalism are dead-dead, not undead (since they weren't cannibals, they weren't cursed)--so you should see their gnawed and separated bones lying about.
But, they guys who turned into zombies (and huecuva) couldn't have died all at the same time, right?, you ask. Well, maybe they could've. Be it by going insane and killing each other off, or the curse starting out by incapacitating them and exaggerating their hunger so that it gnawed at them and slowly killed them, but left them powerless to feed on the dead or each other until they all finally succumbed to undeath. Or something like that. :)
I took at as it was written.
When all flesh was eaten, the cannibals turned on themselves, and Krund was the last to survive, until he tried to eat himself.
I figure that they retained their fleshy appearances for the 200 years as part of the curse. They eat (the crabs and anyone who comes in) but are never satisfied. They do not fully rot, so they cannot truly die. Even skeletons would turn to dust after centuries.
So the "zombie" appearance is part of the curse, IMHO.
The zombies and Veldimar turned on the others, and ate them. Those victims did not rise again, as other posters have said. When the zombies died (from turning on themselves or through suicide) they still had flesh on them. Once you're a zombie, your flesh doesn't rot off. You just stay a zombie forever.
(My group LOVED the huecuva, btw. They were like, "He's doing WHAT!?")
LOL! My group had a terrible time with the huecuva! Here's a cool formula for any DM that wants a 2-hour, 24-round combat with a single enemy:
1. Start with the huecuva, as written, and a party of 5 2nd level characters.2. Have the party Cleric use up all of his turn undead attempts on the ravenous pirate zombies.
4. Make sure there are no arcane spellcasters in the party.
5. Make sure the highest damage the party can deal out is 11 points.
6. Make sure they have no magical or silver weapons, nor any alchemical items or holy water.
7. Make sure the heucuva casts divine protection and has a 20 AC.
Needless to say, that combat took forever, and now 4 of 5 party members are inflected with huecuva blight. Things were looking bleak until the Cleric cast a few cure light and cure minor wounds spells on it. Then the PCs resorted to grappling the poor huecuva, and one of them dumped a perfectly good cure light wounds potion down its throat.
I think it was the most memorable scene so far. Good stuff!
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We had a similar situation...but not QUITE as bad.
We had one swashbuckler PC with the silver dagger he'd gotten from the previous room with the Crabs as the only one who could deal damage to the huecuva, and the cleric who was out of turning attempts was pinning the huecuva to the ground while the swashbuckler stabbed him slowly to 0. We also had no big damage guys and no power attackers, so everyone else was dealing with the zombies I had involved in the encounter too, that the cleric had succeeded on turning with his last turn attempt.
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That huecuva (or however it's spelled) was the most anti-climactic fight ever. He shambled into the room we were in. He didn't even get to say or do anything, really. We won initiative, the Warlock hit him with a tanglefoot bag, the Dwarf Fighter power attacked for full, hit for max damage, and one-hitted the sucker.
Poor bastard, we never found out anything about him.
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Then the PCs resorted to grappling the poor huecuva, and one of them dumped a perfectly good cure light wounds potion down its throat.
That sounds like a brutal fight. The ending just raises a new point similar to my original question, however. By my reading of FF, the huecuva is a skeleton - thus he has no throat. I wouldn't have allowed this attack. I would have laughed at it, and probably given some kind of situational XP reward for the character that tried it, but I would have ruled that since the potion cannot be taken internally, it would not affect the creature.
Then the PCs resorted to grappling the poor huecuva, and one of them dumped a perfectly good cure light wounds potion down its throat.That sounds like a brutal fight. The ending just raises a new point similar to my original question, however. By my reading of FF, the huecuva is a skeleton - thus he has no throat. I wouldn't have allowed this attack. I would have laughed at it, and probably given some kind of situational XP reward for the character that tried it, but I would have ruled that since the potion cannot be taken internally, it would not affect the creature.
I would have let them do this to mr H, such a cool and unusual method of defeating him, deserves some reward.
The logic behind it, and him being a Skeleton may sting a little, but this is a world of magic afterall!
I'd rule it the same way Warforged and potions are ruled!
I would have let them do this to mr H, such a cool and unusual method of defeating him, deserves some reward.
That was my thinking exactly! I always reward ingenuity, as long as it helps to keep the campaign going forward. After 24 rounds, the PCs were truly stumped. I also described the huecuva to the players as an "emaciated, dessicated walking corpse" and not a typical skeleton, so I didn't bat an eye when they decided to dump a cure potion down it's gullet.
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Tom, you're absolutely right. If the creature was described as a corpse, the attack definitely should have been allowed. And I agree that this was a novel and probably pretty funny way to dispatch an enemy that was obviously frustrating the party. Even were my party to try such an attack against a creature described as skeletal, I still probably would have awarded some bonus XP just for the amusement factor of wrestling the undead to the ground and trying to pour something down its throat. That's the Steve Irwin spirit if I ever saw it!
Happy gaming.
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I'd rule it the same way Warforged and potions are ruled!
Just from the perspective of mechanics, how does the warforged rule alter the potion dynamic? I've only been involved in one Eberron adventure, and that as a player, so I'm ignorant of how living constructs spin certain rules. In the past, I've ruled that a potion MUST be taken internally in order to be effective. That's the basis for my assumption that such an attack against a skeletal opponent should not work. I know the recipient of the potion doesn't have to be conscious, but I think you'd have to have a body to retain the potion for it to work.
Now a wand, on the other hand, should only require a touch attack to inflict the same damage once the wand has been activated.
I'd rule it the same way Warforged and potions are ruled!Just from the perspective of mechanics, how does the warforged rule alter the potion dynamic? I've only been involved in one Eberron adventure, and that as a player, so I'm ignorant of how living constructs spin certain rules. In the past, I've ruled that a potion MUST be taken internally in order to be effective. That's the basis for my assumption that such an attack against a skeletal opponent should not work. I know the recipient of the potion doesn't have to be conscious, but I think you'd have to have a body to retain the potion for it to work.
Now a wand, on the other hand, should only require a touch attack to inflict the same damage once the wand has been activated.
I'm at work, so can't link to the SRD as its blocked by websense (still unsure why this website and messageboards aren't).
I'll be home in 3 hours or so, so Link then for you.
Although, I wouldn't allow potions to be used on mindless animated dead, but Intelligent undead Like a H, i'd say yes to!
Edit: I could be remembering the rule completely wrong. If thats the way, ignore my ramblings!
Have any of you seen the animated movie "The Last Unicorn"? There's a skeleton they need to bribe their way past, and he's a dead drunkard guard. They end up bribing him with cheap wine - the skeleton grabs it greedily, and "drinks" it right into his mouth and pouring out all over the floor, all the while making lip-smacking sounds of enjoyment.
Ever since that movie, I have no problem letting a skeleton drink a potion.
Have any of you seen the animated movie "The Last Unicorn"? There's a skeleton they need to bribe their way past, and he's a dead drunkard guard. They end up bribing him with cheap wine - the skeleton grabs it greedily, and "drinks" it right into his mouth and pouring out all over the floor, all the while making lip-smacking sounds of enjoyment.
Ever since that movie, I have no problem letting a skeleton drink a potion.
Didn't they give him an empty bottle? And he said something like, "I don't need to taste it..I remember!" then he "drank" the wine.
But did the skeleton get drunk?
Nope he made the fort save *grin*