Hello folks,
Well its taken 19 months and 9 total characters but the players have advanced to Dawn of a New Age.I had a quick question, what kinda of weapon over comes DR/EPIC as in what are the requires for a weapon to be considered epic?
Enhancement bonus > +5??
Enhancement bonus > +5??Hello folks,
Well its taken 19 months and 9 total characters but the players have advanced to Dawn of a New Age.I had a quick question, what kinda of weapon over comes DR/EPIC as in what are the requires for a weapon to be considered epic?
I believe if you check the SRD, its +11 and above that's considered epic.
See: Epic Magic Weapons and look at Table: Epic Weapons.
Greg
Hello folks,
Well its taken 19 months and 9 total characters but the players have advanced to Dawn of a New Age.I had a quick question, what kinda of weapon over comes DR/EPIC as in what are the requires for a weapon to be considered epic?
The Glossary of the Monster Manual v3.5, pg. 307 under the Damage Reduction entry states:
"A few very powerful monsters, such as the solar and the tarrasque, are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus."
Damage Reduction epic, basically means, unless you are in an Epic campaign, or one of your players has a Greater Artifact Weapon, there are no ways of getting around that damage reduction.
A +6 modifier for a weapon is rather costly if you have seen the Epic Level Handbook (like around 1 mil. gp from what I recall)
Also, I believe the Epic Level Handbook provides a datapoint in which a weapon is considered Epic if its total VALUE in gold pieces exceed a certain threshold.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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A weapon is epic if one of the two criteria is met:
1) It's enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls is +6 or greater.
OR
2) The total market modifier of enhancements placed on the weapon is +11 or greater.
Thus both of the following weapons are considered 'epic':
A +6 spear and a +3 axiomatic holy flaming burst speed longsword.
Also remember if the party still has the circlet from the Whispering Cairn they have access to a means of making weapons "Epic." In theory as the party progressed through the AP the circlet gains powers, one of the last powers it gains is the ability to bestow a held weapon the "Epic" modifier. I do not remember what the duration is, or if you can do multiple weapons in a day and hand them out to the party. The information is covered in one of the last modules.
Stan
Also remember if the party still has the circlet from the Whispering Cairn they have access to a means of making weapons "Epic." In theory as the party progressed through the AP the circlet gains powers, one of the last powers it gains is the ability to bestow a held weapon the "Epic" modifier. I do not remember what the duration is, or if you can do multiple weapons in a day and hand them out to the party. The information is covered in one of the last modules.
Stan
The wearer of the circlet must hold the weapon for 1 round, after which it's considered epic for the purpose of bypassing damage resistance for 1 full minute (10 rds).
95% sure that's it, we just played out the end a couple weekends ago.
J-
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Damage Reduction epic, basically means, unless you are in an Epic campaign, or one of your players has a Greater Artifact Weapon, there are no ways of getting around that damage reduction.
A +6 modifier for a weapon is rather costly if you have seen the Epic Level Handbook (like around 1 mil. gp from what I recall)
Useful trick - a +4 or +5 bane weapon attacking that which it is a bane of can overcome epic DR (it becomes +6 or +7)
Cheapest way to make an epic weapon is to have a +1 Bane(vs whatever you need an epic weapon for) weapon. At this level if you have a spell caster that can cast greater magic weapon, bingo you have an epic weapon.
The Glossary of the Monster Manual v3.5, pg. 307 under the Damage Reduction entry states:
"A few very powerful monsters, such as the solar and the tarrasque, are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus."
Ok, should'a checked the glossary.
A weapon is epic if one of the two criteria is met:
2) The total market modifier of enhancements placed on the weapon is +11 or greater.
Where is this from?
I was trying to find out about DR/epic (as I plan to have my party face a Tarrasque near the end of the current campaign) and when I found that table on the SRD, I figured it was +11 or better for sure. I guess the SRD table is just poorly worded.
Thanks,
Greg
Cheapest way to make an epic weapon is to have a +1 Bane(vs whatever you need an epic weapon for) weapon. At this level if you have a spell caster that can cast greater magic weapon, bingo you have an epic weapon.
Doesn't work. Like bonuses, including Enhancement bonuses don't stack. So the +5 enhancement bonus from Greater Magic Weapon and the +2 bane enhancement don't add up to +7. You still get the extra 2d6 damage, though.
The Glossary of the Monster Manual v3.5, pg. 307 under the Damage Reduction entry states:
"A few very powerful monsters, such as the solar and the tarrasque, are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus."
Ok, should'a checked the glossary.
A weapon is epic if one of the two criteria is met:
2) The total market modifier of enhancements placed on the weapon is +11 or greater.
Where is this from?
I was trying to find out about DR/epic (as I plan to have my party face a Tarrasque near the end of the current campaign) and when I found that table on the SRD, I figured it was +11 or better for sure. I guess the SRD table is just poorly worded.
Thanks,
Greg
Epic Level Handbook (go figure, eh?), pgs. 123-131
+5 Bastard Sword - Costs - 50,000gp
+5 Vorpal Bastard Sword - Costs - 200,000gp
+6 Bastard Sword - Costs - 720,000gp
+6 Vorpal Bastard Sword - Costs - 2,420,000gp
Thats why epic is so costly. They explain in detail why they are so much more expensive then regular weapons and equipment on Pg. 123.
More specifically a weapon is epic if it meets any of the following criteria:
- Has a enhancement (dam/hit) bonus of +6 or higher
- Has a total enhancement bonus of +11 of higher
- Grants a enhancement bonus to a ability score of +7 or higher
- Grants a enhancement bonus to a skill of +31 or higher
- Has a caster level of 21st level or higher
- Mimics a spell whose effective level is higher than 9th
- Has a Market Price of 200,000gp or higher (not including materials costs, experience point costs, or Intelligent weapon costs)
There are a few more criteria, but most of them deal with other items, not weapons, in particular.
Cheapest way to make an epic weapon is to have a +1 Bane(vs whatever you need an epic weapon for) weapon. At this level if you have a spell caster that can cast greater magic weapon, bingo you have an epic weapon.Doesn't work. Like bonuses, including Enhancement bonuses don't stack. So the +5 enhancement bonus from Greater Magic Weapon and the +2 bane enhancement don't add up to +7. You still get the extra 2d6 damage, though.
You need to read those write ups a little more carefully Vigil. While enhancement bonuses do not stack, you are right there, Bane does not grant an enhancement bonus. If it did, there would be no point in putting the Bane quality on weapons of greater than +1 enchancement, save for the extra 2d6 dam it confers, in other words there would be no point to the other ability of bane. Instead it says (DMG 3.5, pg. 224) "Against a designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus (so a +1 longsword is a +3 longsword against its foe)."
So yes, the cheapest way to get a weapon that can knock through Epic Damage Reduction is to either pay 50,000gp for a +4 Bane sword (or whatever weapon you like to use), and make sure that you use it against the designated foe (thus making it a +6 sword against that foe). Or even cheaper, if you enemies are undead, cast greater magic weapon, from a caster of at least 12th level, and cast undead bane weapon. Or buy an oil for each. Either way, you have a +6 or +7 anti undead killing machine.
I don't see how the passage "Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe" invalidates my position. The effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than normal. The normal enhancement of a +1 bane longsword is +1, so bane raises it to +3. The normal enhancement of a +1 bane longsword with Greater Magic Weapon cast on it is still +1, raised to +3 against the correct foe.
Ah now you split hairs with me.
I suspect that anyone who placed this question before the sage would get the answer that the Greater Magic Weapon spell overides the basic enhancement bonus (which is conveyed by a greater magic weapon spell that has been made permenent through creating the item in question). Thus the "normal" enhancement bonus would be whatever the spell gives it. Even if this is not the case, for 50,000gp one could buy a +4 bane weapon and thus gain the +6 enhancement against said foe.
I would strongly disagree with your ruling on the nature of the Greater Magic Weapon spell. It seems to hold to much in the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law.
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In addition to what has been said, 3.5 dumbed down the DR of creatures. So what was previously a DR 20/+5 is now pretty much a DR 20/magic, which means a simple +1 item can now hurt what used to require a 50,000 gp+ weapon in 3.5.
A +1 weapon is 4% of what a +5 weapon would have cost you. It seems to me that the same effect would apply with DR/Epic. What in 3.0 required a +10 Enhancement bonus is now simply /Epic. Your +4 Bane Outsider is about 8% of the price of a +6 Enhancement Epic weapon but it has that wonderful ability to treat your Enhancement bonus as being higher.
Berserker from the Unapproachable East is a little more specific than Bane but the effect is the same. If I have berserker on my +5 Greatsword the effect is there.
"When the wielder is raging, the weapon's enhancement bonus increases by +2." (Unapproachable East, 54)
There is no question that the weapon does not have a +7 enhancement bonus to attack and damage.
The SRD says an item with even one of the characteristics gives an epic magic item.
“Grants a bonus on attacks and damage greater than +5” It does not say before or after any bonus’ or that the enhancement must be +6 or greater, simply bonus on attacks and damage greater than +5. So if you have Bane Outsider on your +4 longsword, you have a bonus to attack and damage of +6 to said Solar period.
The SRD does not say it must be 200,000 gp in addition to anything so you could effectively have an epic weapon that is less expensive. This is just one of the possibilities that make a weapon or armor Epic.
In addition to what has been said, 3.5 dumbed down the DR of creatures. So what was previously a DR 20/+5 is now pretty much a DR 20/magic, which means a simple +1 item can now hurt what used to require a 50,000 gp+ weapon in 3.5.
Which is why I HATE the new DR rules. Who in their right mind would EVER get an enhancment bonus beyond +1 now? You do a lot more damage with a +1 flaming sword (or frost, or whatever) than with a +2 sword (and don't tell me about energy resistance: this is a DR issue). Before, you needed the +2 to penetrate better DR...
Sorry, I know Monte Cook has aleady said all of this, and far better than I can. But he was right, dangit!!!