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Lich-Loved wrote:

I know I am bumping my own post, sorry for that, but I really expected that one of the previous posters would comment on what I posted yesterday.

Does anyone want to review my reasoning or pass on a rules update I have missed?

Wow...When I replied the other day I was just validating Lich-Loved's interpretation of the rules, which it seemed he wanted some input on. I didn't know I was going to resurrect...

THE HARM WAR !!!!!!!

In my belief, regardless of vague english, errata, or the 'spirit of the rules', it really doesn't matter which way you judge the spell. At one HP, unless you have some good tactics, you're pretty much toast in the next round (or in the current round!).

To begin with, I was in the 'can't drop you lower than one HP under any circumstances' camp. But after I read Lich-Loved interpretation, I changed my mind. I 'switched sides' :P at first by the verbatim description of the spell. Then I researched comparable Wiz/Sor spells and found Disintegrate.

Both Harm and Disintegrate are 6th level and allow spell resistance & saves. Disintegrate even surpasses Harm with a ranged attack, 40d6 damage cap, 5d6 on a failed save, and death/disintegration at 0 hp versus -10. So in my game and interpretation of the rules, I'm going to throw my cleric a bone and let him kick a little butt with a devastating Harm spell once in a while. Clerics can't be all 'buff this' and 'cure that' all the time :)

I find it interesting how just one missed, misunderstood, or improperly worded word or phrase can totally change the interpretation of the rules. When I first read the phrase '...undead cower in fear..' in the Turn Undead section of the PH I thought it was just descriptive fluff text. Only later did I discover that cowered was an actual game condition.


Lich-Loved wrote:

I know I am bumping my own post, sorry for that, but I really expected that one of the previous posters would comment on what I posted yesterday.

Does anyone want to review my reasoning or pass on a rules update I have missed?

A little late to the party here...but I totally agree with your reasoning Lich-Loved. The "If the creature successfully saves" stipulation in the last sentence is the clincher.

To answer Peruhain's original question, I would rule that Harm can drop a target below 1 HP on a failed saved. But on a successful save, Harm cannot drop the target below 1 HP regardless of whether the target started with 1 HP or 100 HP.


If you haven't reached him yet, here's a cool Dragotha figure from McFarland's Series 6 Fall of the Dragon Kingdom: Fossil Clan Dragon


Twinsun wrote:

Hello folks,

Well its taken 19 months and 9 total characters but the players have advanced to Dawn of a New Age.

I had a quick question, what kinda of weapon over comes DR/EPIC as in what are the requires for a weapon to be considered epic?

The Glossary of the Monster Manual v3.5, pg. 307 under the Damage Reduction entry states:

"A few very powerful monsters, such as the solar and the tarrasque, are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus."


Thanks. Actually it's quite visible when you get to that page. I was primarily looking for the discount on the main pages http://paizo.com/dragon & http://paizo.com/dungeon and in My Subscriptions. By the the time I had clicked on "add issues", I had finished searching and was just ready to checkout.

Now I know...and knowing is half of the battle!


Hello. First I wanted to say I love the website and the great messageboard community Paizo has. I just renewed both my Dragon and Dungeon subscriptions.

In previous years, I was able to receive one dollar off each magazines' subscription price by purchasing both magazines together, in addition to the one-dollar discount for ordering online. When renewing this year, I searched high and low for the promotional offer in the individual Dungeon and Dragon subscription pages, looked in My Subscriptions (which showed the discount in my Order History - I was making progress!), searched the Store for a page or link, and the Messageboards for a mention of the discontinuation of the promotion -- with no success.

Conceding defeat, I placed both magazines into my Shopping Cart at $38.95 each to find 'Aha! The Shopping Cart applies the discount!'

It will only help the sale of the magazines if this promotion was clearly stated on both mags’ subscription pages and the My Subscriptions page and included links to purchase/renew both subscriptions simultaneously. Moreover, next year - after I have totally forgotten how to get the discount or the fact that I even posted this message :) - The link or mention of the discount will be readily available and I will not have to spend ten minutes (unsuccessfully) trying to find it!

Keep up the good work!

PoD