Beef up Encounter at Blackwall Keep

[Belfur]

We just started EaBK tonight and the PCs decided on that "stupid action" to ride full speed to the keep and try to enter before the Lizard Folk can react. Great, I had to assemble like 20 Lizardmen to simulate the joint force against them (I told them, you will be seen like on 100m distance), but I decided that only three groups could join in the beginning. But what is this supposed to be: +2 to attack! Even with aid another (and thus making only one third of real attacks) it is a +6 to attack (one good thing the PCs did, they put their backs to the stable and protected their backs; so no flanking). The Lizards could only hit on very high rolls! (Barbarian AC 19, Druid AC 22, Warforged Artificer AC23, Paladin AC25). You could imagine, that apart from some meager hits, the Lizards were not a big match and had to retreat after dealing like 20 points of damage (with a critical hit on produce flame) and losing 11 of their number. The biggest "damage" to the group was their panic, which made them use up precious spells (like summon monster III).
The warforged later went out alone to collect wood from the stable to repair the tower gate, he was even mocking the lizards as they threw javelins at him. So I had to send out their leader and even cheated(!) to get a critical hit and make some 15 points of damage (I know cheating is not good, but I had to give them the impression, that they were not out of danger and I only switched the roll of his attack with the aid another roll of a normal lizardman). The leader was killed by the babarian.
I even made them go and find the captives in the same night, but even with the number of their spells reduced, I am afraid, that the adventure will be just boring to them. Only lizards and these punny dragonborn kobolds, who will not be able to hit either.
I would be grateful to get some suggestions, how to make the adventure tougher without getting ridiculous or killing the party.
I already decided to replace the kobolds with 4 3rd level rogues or fighter/rogues, so that they pose any threat at all and I will improve the leader's attributes by some points.
I do not want to kill my PCs, and I have no problem if they have some encounters they breeze through, but when they start mocking the monsters, I think, I have to do something.

[Demiurge 1138]

Replace the harpy in the lair with a more impressive beater-monster. I've run EaBK twice, the first time with a manticore, the second with an ambush drake from Monster Manual 3. Both times worked fine.

Send the lizard lieutenant out with a group of lizardfolk warriors - don't let him just wait with the prisoners to get killed. Have another guard-beast tend to the prisoners instead, or a low-level golem like the wood and fungus golems from Dragon Magazine. When the lizardfolk spring on the party, come in from multiple angles. Surround 'em. Have their retreat lead the PCs into the otyugh's lair or into the passage with the assassin vine.

Level up any lizardfolk with class levels a bit. The lizard lieutenant, Hiskha the druid, Shukak the lizard king. If you have access to Monster Manual 3, make Shukak and/or the lieutenant a blackscale lizardfolk. If not, you might consider making Shukak half-dragon. Or even do both.

[Mel White]

I suggest you continue to run the adventure as it's described. If the PCs continue to breeze through the opponents, especially if they use surprising or innovative tactics, then so be it. Assuming you're prepared to continue to the next phase of the Adventure Path, there is no harm done. Eventually, the PCs will reach a point where they are challenged. In fact, they may get over-confident and bite off more than they can chew. If you make Blackwall Keep artificially harder, then you will have to keep making the successive chapters that much more harder. If the PCs are the appropriate level for the adventure and have the appropriate quantity and quality of magic items, then all you need to do is play the monsters smart! Have them attack from multiple avenues; perhaps there are tunnels that the lizards can use to sneak into the keep--they're lizards after all, give them burrowing--That way they can enter at multiple points and surround or ambush the party. Have the lizards conduct continual sniping attacks all the time, in order to prevent the PCs from resting--and preventing the wizards from refreshing spells. If the PCs try to ignore these attacks, have the Keep Garrison continually pester the PCs for advice. And then apply penalties to the PCs for being tired! "Barbarian, make a DC 15 Fortitude Save for not getting any sleep or you'll be at -2 for attack rolls etc.," In this manner, the opponents are not getting tougher, but the _conditions_ are!
Another somewhat different tack would be to make the 'conflict' less about the PCs battle and more about the overall defense of the keep. By this, I mean have the garrison pretty much give over running and leading the defense to the PCs. So the PCs need to make some Gather Information rolls to figure out the condition of the ammunition and food reserves, 'Appraise' or knowledge rolls to determine the condition of the walls. Perhaps a Knowledge 'Tactics' (or History or something) to determine the best means of defending the keep...Perhaps Diplomacy rolls or Intimidation to get the troops to the right defensive positions. Handle animal rolls to control the few horses remaining--which happen to go wild at the same time a burrowing lizardman guerrilla sneaks into the stables! The PCs may not have been putting many points into these skills if those skills haven't been meaningfull in play--this way, you're making them meaningful. Then, you can play out the lizardfolk assault on the keep as a simple die roll or two. Make the battle a contest between the 'leader' of the PCs (or whomever the players designate as the character in charge of the defense) and the lizard King. The contest could be between the character's...charisma or knowledge: tactics or whatever skill you think appropriate against the lizard king's Intimidate (if you want to say his lizards fight best when they are afraid of him) or his 'sense motive' (if you want to say that the lizard will win if he can decipherthe keep's defense). The roll is modified by the things the PCs have been doing to ready the defenses: +2 if the Gather Information on the ammunition stores was a success; +2 if the Appraise on the wall was a success (meaning some weak point was identified and repaired); +2 if the Diplomacy to lead the keep's soldiers was a success; and -2 for these rolls if they were a failure.
Of course, you can check out the options for 'Scaling the Adventure'--in general, more is 'better' if you want to take that approach. Perhaps lizards from the Lizardfolk Lair arrive to reinforce the attack on the keep. Forget the Harpy lair, bring the Harpies to the fight! Have them fly over the keep dropping rocks or whatever--or maybe kobolds! Cool! The kobolds won't last long but they're the distraction as the Otyugh sneaks in through the Keep middens.
Finally, if it's just too much like the PCs are killing cannon fodder, then take the lizard king, add the half-dragon template as the 'Scaling' sidebar suggests (or just give him a few fighter levels or whatever you think best) and have him challenge the Barbarian to a one-on-one fight to the death--without weapons--for control of the keep. What barbarian could resist that? And if the barbarian balks, then describe how the Keep garrison thinks he is a coward (and then start deserting).

[Mel White]

Rereading your original post, I see that you are further along in the adventure than I thought. So, Demiurge 1138's ideas on ramping up the opposition are good. I think you could still continue the lizard attack on the keep along the lines in my first post--just say lizard reinforcements have arrived. But let me throw another idea at you. As the PCs go to rescue the captives, tell them that they find the lizard folk lair abandoned. The captives have been left behind, alive if you like (perhaps as a peace offering by the Shaman) or dead if you think that will make for high drama. As the PCs make their way back to the keep, they see signs that a large group of lizardmen has approached Blackwall. Returning to the keep, the PCs see that the keep is now in the hands of the Lizards. Who's mocking who now? Picture it--lizardman sentries atop the keep pointing at and mocking the PCs. How did it happen? The Spawns of Kyuss emerged from their chambers and killed or frightened enough of the garrison that the lizards were able to overcome the defenses. The lizardmen then sent word to the lair for everyone to move. You can say that all the eggs in the egg chamber in the lair hatched, or that there were a lot fewer eggs and the lizards took them. Or just forget the eggs. The Spawns of Kyuss--probably 5 or more of them now, can be wandering the keep or the forest around the keep. Perhaps the PCs encounter one on the way back. Adding more Spawn will toughen up the adventure.
The important clue in this adventure is that the PCs are supposed to realize that there are 'green worms' in the Cairn Hills so that they can tell Allustan and he can send the PCs to see Eligos in the Free City. It doesn't matter how you provide that clue.

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Well I'm going to go with the idea of leaving well enough alone. Sure play the Lizard Folk to their normal abilities but at this level for the PCs Lizard folk are woefully outclassed. Large numbers of weak creatures - even generally played smart, simply are not a match for higher level characters in 3.5. If your really tricky you can get around this to a certain degree but I'm not sure its worth the trouble.

Now I'm assuming that EaBK is the problem and that your PCs have been having it rough in the rest of the AP. So long as that's true then they'll have it rough in future instalments of the AP as well**. Presuming this to be the case then I say let your PCs have their fun. This is likely the one truly easy adventure in the whole AP. For one brief shining moment they get to revel in their power. Consider it a change of pace.

** Now its possible that you have a different problem and instead have PCs that are too powerful for the AP. If the players have a high point buy (anything beyond 28 points) then they are pretty much the equivalent of one (up to about a 32 point buy) or two levels (say anything beyond a 36 point buy) levels in power beyond what their character sheets say. If your allowing access to a lot of supplement books and your players are good at making somewhat min maxed characters then this also makes them at least a single level more powerful then what their character sheets say. If there are 6 or more of the players they also tend to be a little stronger then normal as a party even if their a little short on XP on a per character basis.

This is a problem because at this point the players can start sweeping through every adventure with ease and thats no fun and not in keeping with the look and feel of this AP. In this case I would consider giving the monsters some of what you give the PCs. In other words monster stats should be boosted so that the elite array is equal to whatever point buy the players have and the common array is instead changed to the elite array. If the players have access to lots of books then play around with the feats the monsters take. Nothing requires the monsters to use the feats listed hence repicking feats that would be more useful for the monsters is fair game. Finally go with some mechanism that gives out more HPs to the baddies - especially if you do the same with the PCs. Say give them 75% of max HPs or some such. These changes are comparatively easy, leave you with the same monsters and don't require any changes to the plot it just makes the monsters that much tougher. Note though that these changes are only required if your PCs have similar advantages. In fact each of them shadows a specific PC advantage.

[Belfur]

Actually they are very strong (I will not tell you what point buy their rolls equal too or you will laugh at me), but in general I could challenge them in Whispering Cairns (the wind dukes fell everyone except one, although no one died) and in TFoE (mainly against the Banites/Hextorites), And I could not imagine how they would fare with a normal point buy.
Of course the "along the way" encounters are much easier for them. Maybe I will let them have an easy victory, I just could not stand them totally ignoring, that there are dozens of armed lizardmen everywhere, and they did not even bother to sneak out to fetch what they needed, just because a hit was unlikely and the damage rather a nuisance (although they had borrowed horses they had to chase away during the first fight, I think the remaining lizards will have a nice supper today:-)
Though, I will beef up the chieftain and the dragonborn kobolds.

[Arcmagik]

I am thinking about giving the Lizard King a T-Rex, just for the Chrono Trigger feel of it, heh. Actually years ago I played in a campaign that had us going into a swamp and we teamed up with a lizard man shaman that was trying to take over the tribe, when we battled to the Lizard King, he unleashed his T-Rex on us... nasty fun.

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Belfur wrote:

Actually they are very strong (I will not tell you what point buy their rolls equal too or you will laugh at me), but in general I could challenge them in Whispering Cairns (the wind dukes fell everyone except one, although no one died) and in TFoE (mainly against the Banites/Hextorites), And I could not imagine how they would fare with a normal point buy.

Of course the "along the way" encounters are much easier for them.

If the players have really good advantages I do suggest beefing up the opposition by giving them some kind of a similar advantage. So if their point buy averages at 40 give at least the BBEGs a 40 point buy and give everyone else the elite array. Your players advantages will become ever more pronounced as they gain levels. If they mostly swept through some of these really tough lower level adventures there is some danger that nothing will challenge them in the later adventures. Their going to stack their best abilities onto these great stats and each is going to compliment the other.

Also in this case I don't necessarily feel that my advice to leave well enough alone is appropriate. Most players have been getting their ass kicked for three adventures now and have chewed their finger nails down to the quick. EaBK is a much needed and well deserved break for them. In your case your players have been laying the smack down on almost everything that was not a BBEG. They clearly are not about to have a nervous break down because of D&D stress. Their not constantly looking at their dice and telling it that it has to roll high or they are going to loose another character.

They don't need a break and therefore you might well want to beef this thing up. Just keep in mind that as you make it tougher your giving your players more XP and if they are already powerful imagine how tough they will be if they get ahead of the curve and gain an extra level.

[Belfur]

Thanks for your advice, Jeremy. I think now, I have to improve the BBEG and give the normal lizardfolk a flat +1 to everything relevant in combat (attack, damage, saves) that's easier than changing the stats. For XP I do not care, the CR just remains the same (which it does in some fashion) and thus the PCs will get just the same amount of XP. On the other hand we are down from 6 to 4 players at the moment, thus having lost the wizard and the cleric, just warforged artificer, paladin, barbarian and druid, so a lot will change and I cannot build on my experience up to now.
I now remember that I actually gave Theldrik and his lot a +2 to strength and wisdom and thus made them tough enough, the same might just work here...

[Thraxus]

I will preface this by saying i am running the game in Eberron.

Now, I had a similar problem with the lizardfolk, but I let the encounter stand. It gabve me a chance to show how the players stand above the comman man. I descrbed how the lizardfolk worked as a trained military unit, which got them worried. I then shifted to a more heroic description of the player's actions when they engaged the lizardfolk.

When the group reached the lair, they managed to slip past most of the fights. Unfortunately they did not avoid the lizard king. In short order, he dropped one player and severely wounded two others (they were in single digit hit points) by himself before he was brought down.

If your group has an easy time, amp up the encounter with the king. I can easily be made into a memorable fight with him taunting the PCs as he tears into on PC at a time. Keep in mind that the trident is a good way to deal with pesky spellcasters.

[ignimbrite78]

I'm just about to run the adventure in Eberron. I think that my group is going to breeze through it, even though they are down a PC ...

However I see this as a good thing as they got hammered in TFoE; three PCs died in that adventure at one time or another. So I think that they could afford to have a lighter adventure. I am going to try and introduce a much larger diplomatic/roleplaying component to this adventure as the previous two have been very much hack and slash. So instead of fighting their way through the lizardfolk lair perhaps they manage to persuade someone to bring them before authorities and the shaman catches them en route and intervenes and smoothes everything over. Anyway ...

IMO I do not think that the adventure needs to be tampered with. Just hand out the correct XP for overcoming the encounters and let the chips fall where they may ...

[Mary Yamato]

I just ran it as it stood, and yes, it was a pushover. The PCs took a bit of damage at Blackwall and *no* damage in the lizardfolk lair (Silence and Fly let them sweep through without alerting anyone and gain surprise). I plan to run an inbetween adventure before the next SCAP module, though, based on the alliance the PCs made with the lizardfolk druid; he can tell them where Ilthane's potion-making workshop might be, and they'll probably raid that. That could be a bit harder without straining credibility.

I think we wouldn't have so much trouble with the scattering of the initial lizardfolk if the module didn't so obviously believe that it was a hard fight--it's annoying to be told "This is too hard to do directly" when in fact it is very easy. Makes you feel like you're GMing badly. Did playtest groups really find this fight difficult? I can't imagine how, given the lizardfolk's weak attacks.

The previous two modules were plenty hard enough; I don't think it's awful if this one is easy. But I wish the writeup were more accurate.

Mary

[Delfedd]

I added an extra unit of characters to the lizardfolk onslaught. They where similar to Achilles' Myrmidons from the Troy Movie.

These characters frightened the heroes. They had more hit points than Any "mook" that they had encountered before. The encounter worked as I had hoped it would. The characters basically piling up corpses of dead lizardfolk around them, and then running into the Legionaries. It gave the battle a more epic feel. These guys have a chance of hitting the players. A few also scaled the walls of the keep to deal with the archers.

I may have fudged some of the Armor Check penalties, but I made these guys quickly.

Lizardfolk Legionary group of six
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Reptilian)
Hit Dice: 4d8+4 (22 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 24 (+5 natural, +2 heavy shield, +5 Breastplate, +1 dex), touch 10, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+6
Attack: Claw +6 melee (1d4+3) or Longsword +6 melee (1d8+3) or Long-Spear +6 (1d8+3)
Full Attack: 2 claws +6 melee (1d4+3) and bite +4 melee (1d4+1); or Longsword +6 melee (1d8+3) and bite +4 melee (1d4+1); or Long-spear +6 (1d8+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Qualities: Hold breath
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +1
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8
Skills: Balance +12, Jump +15, Swim +15, Climb +11
Feats: Multiattack, Power attack
Environment: Temperate marshes
Challenge Rating: 3
Alignment: Lawful neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +1

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Mary Yamato wrote:

I think we wouldn't have so much trouble with the scattering of the initial lizardfolk if the module didn't so obviously believe that it was a hard fight--it's annoying to be told "This is too hard to do directly" when in fact it is very easy. Makes you feel like you're GMing badly. Did playtest groups really find this fight difficult? I can't imagine how, given the lizardfolk's weak attacks.

The previous two modules were plenty hard enough; I don't think it's awful if this one is easy. But I wish the writeup were more accurate.

Mary

I really doubt there is anything significant in the way of a playtest. I mean it takes a dedicated group a year to run through this thing and Paizo is not going to eait a year for stress testing the product.

In terms of the write up being wrong - well it is of course but thats because the EL system breaks down when the numbers go up. Now why no one stopped to consider this is beyond my ken but as its written it does appear, when looking at the ELs, to be to hard for a 4th level party. So the writers must have just considered the ELs without considering the fact that the monsters themselves will probably not be able to hit the PCs.

There is also the always problematic aspect that this could be a really tough encounter. Strict 25 point buy and only the core books and these can be pretty tough encounters. Sure the fighter and the Cleric are probably still immune to the Lizard Folk but the mage will be lucky if he has an AC higher then 14 and the rogue probably only has maybe 16. Once the Lizard Folk surround the party in the open the mage is probably going to die and the rogue will flank but then be flanked and will start taking hits like crazy. A mage cant have good dex and good con and good intelligence with a 25 point buy. He is either fairly easy to hit or has almost no hps and the rogue probably has no more then a 12 con as Dex is going to use a huge chunk of a rogues stat points.

[Thraxus]

Another for the combat factor is make up. My group consisted of a human Marshall in full plate, an adamantine bodied warforged fighter, a kobold ninja/sorcerer, a human battle dancer, and a half-elf archavist/savant. Most of the party had AC in the high 20s.

The group also compliments each other so well that many fights are not a challenge 9at least the earlier ones). The lizardfolk were a breeze. On the other hand, the lizard king had the attack bonus to hit their ACs and his guard tied up the party so that the group could not gang up on him. He ate their lunch before he went down.

[Brian Bachman]

It is kind of laughable that the module seems to anticipate that the PCs can't just charge in and save the day in the opening battle at the Keep. I agree with others that it isn't necessarily a bad thing to give the PCs a breather and some easy victories during this module, considering what a meatgrinder AoW is overall.

However, I also wouldn't let the PCs get away with being too cocky - like the eggregious strolling out to gather wood alone and mocking the lizards thing. What I always do when grunt soldiers are overmatched against PCs in regular combat is have them fight dirty. Give them poisoned weapons, or have them use nets to capture the lone PC. Or give them items like alchemist's fire or tanglefoot bags that all they need is to hit a touch armor class. Let them make traps for the PCs like deadfalls and pits. My favorite tactic is to have them gangtackle especially tough PCs and grapple. Or give them the improved trip feat or improved sunder to knock the PC down or take away his weapon. All of these tactics are low-tech and logically could be available to the lizards and make them more challenging for cocky PCs.

[Belfur]

That is how it worked out in the end:
Shukak, I advanced for one level of fighter, he did some decent damage, but nothing really threatening (I think I also rolled quite badly).
Korobas, his Lieutanant, I also gave one more level of Babarian and a Javelin of Lightning (which he used right away) and let him respond to the noise Shukak made. So the PCs did not have much time to heal up. He did some damage, also not bad, but no real killer. Hishak, was not fighting (the Paladin rolled good on Sense Motive, so he saw, that the Lizard Shaman did not want to fight), I was afraid, that they would just waste him without giving him a chance for Diplomacy, so I gave them a small hint.
The real killers were the draconian kobolds. I gave them a +2 "arbitrary" bonus to all skills, attack, damage, saves and AC. So they really rocked, especially as the Paladin had to remove his full plate to swim through the tunnel and the kobolds were forewarned by the warforged scouting ahead (and not really able to scout). So they attacked before the paladin had his heavy gear put back on. I made a mistake and let them sneak attack from the dark (60ft) but did not remeber that sneak attack is only possible at 30ft, but the real damage they did, when they closed in and tumbled and flanked. I never rolled so many criticals in one fight. Everyone thoroughly injured, and fearing for their lives, a decent challenge.
I ruled, that the dragon egg breaks open as soon as it was removed, what the players did. While three of the PCs tried to rescue the eggs two at a time (cloak anybody? no? oh my god?), but the warforged had a genius idea: he used the wand of invisible servant from the Whispering Cairns, and used all charges for 16 helpers, so only 6 spawnlings came, and you would not believe it: one poisened the druid! But he made the second save, so on sunday they will probably be up for the next surprise at Blackwall Keep, finally meeting the unkillable Zombies. I am looking forward to this. Especially, because I have a surprise for my warforged, who might think, that he is not afflicted by the worms and will act accordingly...

[office_ninja]

Mel's point is well taken, especially the point about getting cocky. As I recall, Encounter at Blackwall Keep is right before the WORLD OF PAIN that is Hall of Harsh Reflections.

[Sean, Minister of KtSP]

My players are generally very crafty, with powerful characters. They were chewing through a lot of the earlier encounters, though it would occasionally be from bad DMing as much as anything else -- I don't always remember to properly use all spells and items to their full potential, but I'm getting better.

I have recently started giving all NPCs max hit points, and it's made all the difference. Maybe I'm being cheap (though I was pretty generous to the players at character creation), but I haven't felt this warrants a CR bump, either. If I actually boost the NPC/monster's hit dice or levels, I bump the CR, but just giving them max hit points hasn't really warranted enough.

All it really does is extend combat and give me extra rounds to adjust my tactics, and for some characters, it really doesn't add that many hit points anyway.

As a note, I only give 75% max hit points to creatures with any kind of Fast Healing, and I don't adjust hit points at all for critters with Regeneration.

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Brian Bachman wrote:

However, I also wouldn't let the PCs get away with being too cocky - like the eggregious strolling out to gather wood alone and mocking the lizards thing...

I tend to find that cocky players is usually a self correcting problem. Almost nothing is more dangerous to an adventuring party then when they are getting cocky. Sure they can get away with this sort of behaviour in EaBK. But Hall of Harsh Reflections is rights around the corner. If they walk into that with an attitude that they are unstoppable and tactics are for wimps - they are going to die. My experience has been that killing players characters is a phenomenal antidote for cockiness.

Since I aspire to being an evil DM I'd let them have their fun with the Lizard Folk – anything that increases my chances of getting to the glorious day when I manage a TPK is a good thing in my books. I'll get the last laugh when the fools start feeling their oats at a later time – when the opposition is not Lizard Folk.

So cocky players are not to be punished - embrace their cockiness, encourage it even. The corpses of their beloved characters will be your reward.