Hey, a while back there was an issue of dragon detailing magic items especially nifty for assassins. One of them was a pair of goggles or a mask of some sort that shortened the time it took to study a target for Death Attack. Not having my collection with me, and I'm 2 hours away from home, does anybody feel nice enough to put the jist of what it does, or even the name of it and the issue it's in? I would greatly appreciate it either way. Thank you.
You speak of the Goggles of Scrutiny in Issue 330, on page 68. I'm not sure if I can put up their game stats or not...
Yep, that's what I thought :)
That's when it cuts to some guy posting up game stats, downloading music for free, and then Judge Dredd kicks in the door and shoots everybody. haha.
Or an inevitable...
"I'll be back... to stop internet piracy."
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If you're willing to post your email and someone is willing to type in everything and email the information to you, that is well within the allowability of sharing as I understand it to be.
It's essentially the same as making a mix CD for a friend, which is allowed under copyright laws as I understand them.
I am not a lawyer. ;)
Can we post completely contrived and non-sensical stats then attempt to convince the original poster that the content is correct?
I think so, but your alignment would shift towards evil.
Haha what???? He can post any quote he wants to. Well maybe not on your boards if you don't let him, but quoting copyrighted material is in no way an infraction of any sort of law.
It would most definitely be a violation of copyright law. You cannot reproduce a book, distribute it to other people, and then claim that you weren't infinging on the publishing company's copyright because you kept the author's name on the cover. An extreme example, I know, but it is illustrative. The right to reproduce copyrighted material in any way is the sole right of the person/company who holds the copyright.
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I have offered an alternative way to disseminate the information requested, which I myself would have happily aided in if asked. Sadly, though, it is the way of the Internet to focus only on the negative. Alas. :\
That said, my offer still stands, Tak. Drop me an email and I'll send you back the information you were asking about. :)
My email address can be found on Paizo.com. :)
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Haha what???? He can post any quote he wants to. Well maybe not on your boards if you don't let him, but quoting copyrighted material is in no way an infraction of any sort of law.It would most definitely be a violation of copyright law. You cannot reproduce a book, distribute it to other people, and then claim that you weren't infinging on the publishing company's copyright because you kept the author's name on the cover. An extreme example, I know, but it is illustrative. The right to reproduce copyrighted material in any way is the sole right of the person/company who holds the copyright.
Publishing an excerpt from a passage within a book is not reproducing the book and distributing it to other people. You can also loan out copyrighted material to other people, i.e. libraries. The application of this law hangs on the definition of 'reproduce'. They mean you can't photocopy the entire book and distribute the copies. The 'in any way' part that is frequently seen in copyright notices means by any method i.e. hand-writing it, photocopying, scanning, etc.
Besides, if giving someone the information they need from a particular book is against the law, why is it ok to email it, but not to post it on a message board? How is it acceptable for students to quote copyrighted sources in academic papers? Isn't that illegal by your definition?
I guess Amazon.com is about to get sued for billions once publishers find out that they have short, sample excerpts available to read. Libraries will cease to exist once publishers discover people are reading copyrighted material for free.
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You know what, DocG, I never once claimed to be a lawyer. If I misunderstood the law then all you have to say is "that's not how it works" and leave it at that. I can do without the attacks, really.
Legal or not, Paizo has in the past and will continue to ask people to not post from products, regardless of publisher. As far as I can tell, Wizards.com and ENWorld.org have similar policies.
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You know what, DocG, I never once claimed to be a lawyer. If I misunderstood the law then all you have to say is "that's not how it works" and leave it at that. I can do without the attacks, really.
Legal or not, Paizo has in the past and will continue to ask people to not post from products, regardless of publisher. As far as I can tell, Wizards.com and ENWorld.org have similar policies.
...
My intent was not to attack anyone, and I don't think that I did attack you. In any event, paizo can prohibit anything on their message boards, considering they own them.
I think my response was a little inflammatory. Sorry for that. :(
In the interest of debate, however, I'd like to direct you to the Wikipedia entry on "Fair Use" copyright laws. To quote the article:
The fourth factor measures the effect that the allegedly infringing use has had on the copyright owner's ability to exploit his original work. The court not only investigates whether the defendant's specific use of the work has significantly harmed the copyright owner's market, but also whether such uses in general, if widespread, would harm the potential market of the original.
(...)
In evaluating the fourth factor, courts often consider two kinds of harm to the potential market of the original work. First, courts consider whether the use in question acts as a direct market substitute for the original work. In the words of the Supreme Court in Acuff-Rose Music, "when a commercial use amounts to mere duplication of the entirety of the original, it clearly supersedes the object of the original and serves as a market replacement for it, making it likely that cognizable market harm to the original will occur."
The emphasis is mine.
In terms of publishing game-specific material on a forum, it seems to me this is a violation of "fair use," as it can clearly serve as a direct substitute for the original. Email is a different story, as it is restricted to a single or a few recipients - on a forum, the material is free for anyone to access. Thus, posting it would be viewed as "distributing" the material in violation of copyright laws.
Anyway, I'm just interested in the debate (same thing happening with the music industry) and I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. If I have, I apologize.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Publishing an excerpt from a passage within a book is not reproducing the book and distributing it to other people. You can also loan out copyrighted material to other people, i.e. libraries. The application of this law hangs on the definition of 'reproduce'. They mean you can't photocopy the entire book and distribute the copies. The 'in any way' part that is frequently seen in copyright notices means by any method i.e. hand-writing it, photocopying, scanning, etc.Besides, if giving someone the information they need from a particular book is against the law, why is it ok to email it, but not to post it on a message board? How is it acceptable for students to quote copyrighted sources in academic papers? Isn't that illegal by your definition?
I guess Amazon.com is about to get sued for billions once publishers find out that they have short, sample excerpts available to read. Libraries will cease to exist once publishers discover people are reading copyrighted material for free.
I am a lawyer.
You are wrong.
Emailing a portion of a book most certainly can be a violation of copyright law. There is no rule that says "if you quote less than the entire work it is not an infringement of the owner's copyright."
Whether or not the copying and distribution of a portion infringes upon the owner's copyright depends on a number of factors, including the extent of the material copied, the method of distribution, the purpose of the distribution, etc.
In the case of lending a book, you are correct, no copying occurs. As for academic papers, the facts contained within them may not be copyrighted. The use of quotes is guided by the principle I outlined above. If you tell read copyrighted material to somebody and they don't record your voice, that is not a violation of copyright because no copy is made. If you compose an email about the information in a copyrighted source and use your own words, that is also probably not infringement (unless it is a derivative work). It gets complicated...
The fact that the original poster owns a copy of the content does effect the analysis, but is not controlling. In the mp3.com case, the court held that it was a violation of copyright for mp3.com to give users access to a copy of a CD on their server even if such user verified that they in fact owned an actual physical copy of the CD. Thus, the fact that the person owns a copy of the book from which the information is being emailed may not prevent the action from being infringing.
Sigh. You would think with as much as copyright law is discussed on the internet, people would either learn what the law actually is or admit they don't know and not spout off half-understood principles as if they were absolute axioms.
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I am a lawyer.You are wrong.
God, again with the smugness.
What makes you think you're the only lawyer in this thread? Besides, unless you practice this sort of law, I think we both know you don't have any real special knowledge on the subject.
Emailing a portion of a book most certainly can be a violation of copyright law. There is no rule that says "if you quote less than the entire work it is not an infringement of the owner's copyright."
Which is why I specified that if the portion in question was a tiny fraction of the work (an excerpt of a passage) then it was not a violation of the law.
Whether or not the copying and distribution of a portion infringes upon the owner's copyright depends on a number of factors, including the extent of the material copied, the method of distribution, the purpose of the distribution, etc.
How is this different than what I said? Perhaps it's a bit more succinct, but conveys the same idea as my hastily written post. He was talking about quoting one paragraph out of thousands, and was to be written mainly for the use of one person who had already read the material in question. Psst... that's OK to do. No one will get sued, and there is no ethical transgression.
As for academic papers, the facts contained within them may not be copyrighted.
Are you sure you're a lawyer? Where did they teach you that? Just curious.
If I wrote an academic paper on the roleplaying games hobby, I could directly quote (properly cited of course) the PH or the DMG as much as I wanted. So long as the purpose was not to make direct financial gain from the use of the quoted work. I could include artwork too.
For instance:
I feel that D&D is an inherently satanic game that is corrupting our youth and damning our society to hell. *Insert random 1ed. Illustration* Clearly, that pink colored part above her breastline is a portion of an areola. This is obviously the work of the devil. Also, one of the playable races is chaotic evil. This is how the Player's Handbook tell you to play assume an evil identity. *insert random quote*
^^ Is a perfectly acceptable use of copyrighted material.
If you tell read copyrighted material to somebody and they don't record your voice, that is not a violation of copyright because no copy is made. If you compose an email about the information in a copyrighted source and use your own words, that is also probably not infringement (unless it is a derivative...
Oh pfft. As we both know, laws can mean virtually anything until the courts clear up the ambiguity. Don't you think you're really splitting hairs here? Are you honestly trying to say that if I read a copyrighted bed-time story to my son, and some stalker recorded what I was unintentionally broadcasting through the baby monitor, that I would be guilty of copyright infringement?
In the interest of being successful, I suggest you stay as far away from courtrooms as possible. Your smug attitude will prejudice judges and jurors against your arguments.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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God, again with the smugness.
Pot. Kettle. The difference is that what I said is correct. What you said is the usual attempt by someone smart enough to read the law but lacking the training in interpretation to make accurate statements about it.
As for academic papers, the facts contained within them may not be copyrighted.Are you sure you're a lawyer? Where did they teach you that? Just curious.
Feel free to double check. Facts cannot be copyrighted. The way that you express a fact can be copyrighted, but the fact itself cannot.
If I wrote an academic paper on the roleplaying games hobby, I could directly quote (properly cited of course) the PH or the DMG as much as I wanted. So long as the purpose was not to make direct financial gain from the use of the quoted work. I could include artwork too.
You still don't know what you're talking about. The analysis is more complex than "I can quote whatever I want in an academic paper." Again, feel free to double check.
Oh pfft. As we both know, laws can mean virtually anything until the courts clear up the ambiguity. Don't you think you're really splitting hairs here? Are you honestly trying to say that if I read a copyrighted bed-time story to my son, and some stalker recorded what I was unintentionally broadcasting through the baby monitor, that I would be guilty of copyright infringement?
What's this "we both know" stuff? I know that many laws, including copyright laws, have been interpreted to mean certain things. Copyright law is almost entirely case law, so to say "it can mean anything until a court decides" is redundant. The court has decided, that decision is case law. Other laws are clear on their face or only have a small set of possible interpretations. So, no, "we do not both know" that laws can mean virtually anything until courts clear them up.
In the interest of being successful, I suggest you stay as far away from courtrooms as possible. Your smug attitude will prejudice judges and jurors against your arguments.
Thanks for the advice! In the interest of sounding like you know what you're talking about, try not to post incorrect information about the state of copyright law in the future.
P.S. People pay $235 per hour for my opinion on the law. How much do they pay you?
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(gee, you think I can post this?)
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way." -Vonnegut
Your post just screams that you recently graduated from law school and have a bone to pick with people who have the audacity to claim they are knowledgeable on the subject of law. The 'we both know' really seems to have struck a nerve. How dare I imply that we might have a similar level of knowledge on the subject at hand! You went to law school dammit! You got a 1350 on your SAT's!
You still don't know what you're talking about. The analysis is more complex than "I can quote whatever I want in an academic paper."
No, it really isn't more complex than that. If anything, the academic paper issue was an unnecessary digression that only served to make the issue at hand more convoluted. The issue was if a guy could post a fragment of copyrighted material to an internet message board. The answer is yes, he can. You can make mountains out of mole hills, and be as rude and insulting as you want; however, that does not change the fact that you're not really adding anything to the discussion. 'LISTEN TO ME DAMMIT I MAKE $235 AN HOUR BECAUSE IM A REALLY SMART LAWYER' just makes you look like a fool desparately seeking respect (on a D&D message board no less).
In the interest of sounding like you know what you're talking about, try not to post incorrect information about the state of copyright law in the future.
What exactly did I say that was incorrect? Was I not (laughably) condescending enough in my presentation of my legal interpretation? Should I have contrived a half-assed attempt to cite case law? You don't want to argue the issue at hand, you want to bloviate about rhetorical hypotheticals. Sure, emailing an excerpt CAN be illegal, but in this case it most certainly is not.
P.S. If you really want to compare the size of our wangs, my corporate clients pay my firm significantly more than $235 an hour for my consulting.
Y'know, I really wish this board had some mechanism for Reporting an inflammatory post.
DocG, I'm voting on the side of "Your posts are inflammatory and rude" - because that's the tone I inferred from them, starting with your "Haha what????" as the start of your initial comments in this thread, and continuing through your attacks on the one other poster who dared to criticize you for it.
I come to these boards because, for the most part, people are friendly, or at least, not abusive of others. I'd like to ask you to take a deep breath, re-read your posts, and try to see why some of us might find them overly-aggressive.
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continuing through your attacks on the one other poster who dared to criticize you for it.
I write the way in which I would argue. I argue in a manner that I used to debate, something which I was fairly good at. If I make strongly worded comments it is because I expect the other person to be able to separate his feelings from his ability to conduct a rational conversation/argument.
My 'haha what???' is more inflammatory than the last few remarks of Seb's first post? I'd beg to differ. To paraphrase, 'Why oh why do these cretins continue to talk about something of which I am the only expert present?' That took the whole conversation to a new level.
I think my avatar has, at least in small part, something to do with how people read my posts. Yours too seb, I imagine you probably resemble the looks of your avatar and behave like this guy: http://thingsihate.org/article/123/the_worst_dungeon_master_ever_part_one
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I wondered when the attack on my hygiene would come.
Anyway, you're still wrong, regardless of how many personal attacks you attach to your statements (and mind you, the Veonnegut quote really hurt - it's like he wrote it while thinking specifically of me. I cried for hours after reading it, so painful was its truth).
You don't know the law; you shouldn't post as if you do know the law. I'm sorry that not being an expert in this area and being called out on that fact offends you.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."
Ron Burgundy
Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy
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I write the way in which I would argue. I argue in a manner that I used to debate, something which I was fairly good at. If I make strongly worded comments it is because I expect the other person to be able to separate his feelings from his ability to conduct a rational conversation/argument.
Same excuse all the other trolls over on the Wizard's boards use to explain away the way they disrespect and belittle each other. Perhaps, if you so enjoy spouting "strongly worded" opinions, you should head over there and enjoy that "community".
Debate Clubs in college are a bad thing IMO, they seem to breed people who only think about how to damage another's credibility and reputation so as to increase thier own position. Lucky there is no shortage of the need for such people within the political arena.FH
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Come on, can't you at least say what I'm wrong about? He can post the quote on the boards, do you dispute that?
I guess when you have nothing better to say, you make personal attacks, and then cry foul when someone responds in kind. Congratulations, you dragged me down to your level and then changed course and played for some sort of sympathy vote.
Maybe I just need a hug, did you ever think of that????
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Same excuse all the other trolls over on the Wizard's boards use to explain away the way they disrespect and belittle each other. Perhaps, if you so enjoy spouting "strongly worded" opinions, you should head over there and enjoy that "community". Debate Clubs in college are a bad thing IMO, they seem to breed people who only think about how to damage another's credibility and reputation so as to increase thier own position. Lucky there is no shortage of the need for such people within the political arena.
FH
I was never in any sort of debate 'club' in college. Damaging the other debaters' credibility is actually a terrible way to debate and will net you quite a few losses. Real competitive debate works quite differently than you seem to think it does.
I'm really baffled how I'm the 'bad guy' here. Credibility attacks? That was Sebastian with 'I'm a Lawyer, you don't possess the appropriate training to talk about this'.
I didn't belittle anyone until I myself was belittled. Then, I only responded in kind to the attempted abuse Seb wants to dish out. I'm sorry if he's your board-buddy, but if he doesn't want to be called out for his pompous attitude, he should refrain from insinuating that people are stupid, uneducated, uninformed, sexually dysfunctional (a theme from another thread), or not worthy of having opinions contrary to his. The whole 'I make a lot of money so what I say is right!' thing doesn't help his case much either.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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You forgot: "and his Mom is so fat that when she sits around the house, she really sits around the house."
This all seems like a threadjack at this point. Maybe you should start a new thread: "Seb's Personal Failings and Other Reasons Not to be his Friend." You could post such insights as "he said I was wrong when I posted incorrect information" and "he says mean things to lots of other people too!" Maybe: "He has the audacity to think he knows more about his profession than I do!" And most importantly: "He thinks he's sexier than the rest of you, what with that shiny bald-headed avatar."
Wow... Why are you all arguing about this? A representative of Paizo, Mike McArtor, has kindly asked us not to post the stats. Regardless of whether posting stats online is against the law or not, I think we should follow his instructions out of respect.
My 'haha what???' is more inflammatory than the last few remarks of Seb's first post?
I think my avatar has, at least in small part, something to do with how people read my posts. Yours too seb, I imagine you probably resemble the looks of your avatar and behave like this guy: http://thingsihate.org/article/123/the_worst_dungeon_master_ever_part_one
Yes, I believe your "haha what" was inflammatory - as I said. And no, I reacted to your words and tone, not the picture beside them. And yes, I believe comments in many of your posts, for example the one at the end of the post I've quoted here, are inflammatory - and insulting, and childish, and inappropriate on these forums. Although on investigation, it appears the messageboard rules don't specifically forbid personal attacks (unless they're actual threats); that seems like an oversight to me. Or would your insult above count as harassment?
From the Messageboard FAQ on this site:
What are the messageboard rules?
Users who participate in our message boards agree to not: post any content that infringes and/or violates any patent, trademark, copyright, or other proprietary right of any third party; use profanity; make any bigoted, hateful or racially offensive statements; defame, abuse, stalk, harass or threaten others; advocate illegal activity or discuss illegal activities with the intent to commit them.
While Paizo Publishing does not pre-screen message content, Paizo Publishing does reserve the right to edit or remove submitted messages or material at any time. Paizo Publishing is not responsible for the content of messages submitted by users of the site. Users posting messages to the site automatically grant Paizo Publishing the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, nonexclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, sublicense, copy and distribute such messages throughout the world in any media.
How do I report an offensive or inappropriate post?
Send an email to webmaster@paizo.com.
