What do you do when a player wants something different? In this case I have a player who asked "What would you give my cleric if he gave up his 2 domains?"
So, I did what any good DM would do... I stammered like an idiot. But after picking up my jaw from the floor I gave it some thought. He's playing a dwarf, and we discussed them being careful of how they reflect on their family and clan. Based on that we came up with an idea for giving him a spirit companion. One of his ancestors, and ancient hero of the clan.
My biggest problem has been balancing it out with domains though. At first I figured we could have him physicaly manifest a few times a day to aid him, give him some ancient knowledge to feed the story here and there too. I made the spirit a warrior and wanted to use that in what I gave him. Later on I was considering allowing the cleric to go etheral, but I'm still not sure on that one.
Any suggestions or ideas for what else I can give him? I want to make it balance out, but to be honest I'm not sure what else to throw in.
The Spell Compendium has both "Community Domain" and "Family Domain" (as well as the "Dwarf Domain"), and I'm sure I saw an "Ancestor Domain" somewhere, and these might give you some ideas... I know you said the cleric's not using domains, but these might give an idea of what general direction to take with abilities... maybe granted powers useable more often or something like that?
If you want to just go with what you've done, maybe give him the ancestor's fighter attack bonus (equal to character level) useable for x rounds per day...
I would recommend giving him some of the abilities several Domains can grant him. For example, the strength domain gives a strength bonus once per day. Now, by invoking the blessing of his ancestors, he might be able to use that bonus more often, like once for every two levels or something. This might work as well for a constitution bonus and an better BAB.
Stefan
Well I think to a degree it depends on what you mean by no Domains - if you mean it as I would interpret it -
No domain spells on spell list
No domain spell slots
No domain special abilities
Well that a lot to give up
The next question is do you want to do something special or something easy.
EASY
1. Fighters BAB progression
2. Bonus feat at 1st level plus a bonus feat every 3rd cleric level
3. Increase the caster level on all spells by two levels and let him keep the domain spell slots for use as normal
4. If he is more inspirational type cleric - give all of the bardic music abilties - but as divinely inspired - rather than musically generated
5. Let him have 8 skill points per level (x4 at first), or 6 per level but open up all skills as class skills as well
Those ae probably all in the realm of balanced...
If you want something special...
You already have a anscestral companion thing worked out - if you like that, it seems pretty balanced
Some other ideas
1. If he is really earthy give him earth elemental companions - along the same mechanical lines as the ShadowDancer Shadow companions (but double the level in the description) thats really potent - but giving up domains is big.
2. Give him a roguelike feel - uncanny dodge, evasion, improved evasion, as a rogue would get them as different maanifestations of divine luck - plus at some level he moves so he is always attacking as if flanking.
3. Every time a character normally gets an abiltiy point boost he gets 2 (plus 1 at 1st level)
Well thats a few ideas - I was going to add some about spelllike abilties - but as the PC is giving up spells that seemed a departure of what you are going for
Hope that helps
There's the Ancestral Speaker variant cleric in Dragon #311, for the record.
Given the character, I'd say to give them the ability to, say, call upon their ancestor's strength for combat bonuses, usable maybe once per day per two cleric levels.
Great suggestions. I'll order Dragon 311 and take a look. That may just be exactly what I'm looking for.
And he gave up all domain abilities, skills and spells... So yeah a big deal. With the spirit being a warrior, I was thinking of having him become solid a few times a day and progressing him in a way similar to fighter with BAB, throw in a buff spell here or there on top of that. But I'll definately look into these for some more interesting ideas.
Thanks all!
a cleric with no domain spells? try looking at the Favored Soul in "Complete Divine"; this is essentially a divine spellcasting version of the sorcerer: limited number of spells per level, increased spell slots per level, no undead turning, but with energy resistances at regular levels.....
you do not want the Favored Soul as your sole source of divine spell casting power but when paired with a traditional cleric, the Favored Soul can provide interesting options......although a Lawful Neutral dwarven cleric of Dumathoin may not be the best counterpart to a Neutral Favored Soul of Waukeen
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
And he gave up all domain abilities, skills and spells... So yeah a big deal. With the spirit being a warrior, I was thinking of having him become solid a few times a day and progressing him in a way similar to fighter with BAB, throw in a buff spell here or there on top of that...
I thought of something else that might flavor it a little better: Ancestral Aspects.
You say "the ancestor is a warrior." Well, the character has more than one ancestor and a truly ancestral character should know better than to venerate only a single ancestor. I say give him the following: When he prays for his spells every day, he speaks to his ancestors for guidance. Depending on what he expects the day to bring, he chooses ONE ancestor to be his spirit guide for the day. He can choose from the following each day:
Wise Ancestor
This ancestor is patient and learned in all things. While under the Aspect of Wisdom, the cleric gains a +2 divine bonus on all Knowledge checks and may use Bardic Knowledge as a bard of his cleric level.
Warrior Ancestor
This ancestor is a powerful spirit of war. While under the Aspect of War, the cleric gains proficiency with all simple and martial weapons as well as a +1 on all attack and weapon damage rolls for each 4 cleric levels he possesses. While under this Aspect, his caster level is reduced by 2 (minimum 1).
Holy Ancestor
This ancestor was an ancient paragon of faith. While under the Aspect of Holyness, the cleric gains a +4 divine bonus on turning checks, and increases turning damage by 1d6. He also heals an additional 1 hit point per 4 cleric levels he possesses on any healing spell he casts.
Capricious Ancestor
This ancestor was a famous adventurer renowned for his courage and spirit. While under the Aspect of Adventure, the cleric gains a +2 divine bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, Hide, Move Silently, and Sense Motive checks. He also gains Evasion and Uncanny Dodge as a rogue of his cleric level.
Steadfast Ancestor
This ancestor was a powerful guardian of his people and was determined to protect them with his life. While under the Aspect of Defense, the cleric gains damage reduction 1/-, a +2 divine bonus on all saving throws, and adds 2 hit points per hit die to his total as though his Constitution were 4 points higher.
Enlightened Ancestor
This ancestor was a powerful magic user. While under the Aspect of Enlightenment, the cleric gains a +4 divine bonus on Concentration and Spellcraft checks and casts all cleric spells at +2 caster levels.
I think this will provide some more flexibility than simply deciding on a single ancestor that bestows limited abilities. Hope you like it!
Fate, that's some amazing stuff. And a great idea. I was actually going to have the spirit a secret from his god, Dumathion dwarven god of secrets and mysteries. His temple is part of a giant hidden library, a huge repository of knowldege stashed away for safety. I figured the spirit guide as on of Dumation's 'secrets' for his clerics. But I like my dwarves in this world to have some shades of ancestor worship. So this looks especially good.
Elton- He looked into that. But he has this fixation on spirit companions for this character.
Elton- He looked into that. But he has this fixation on spirit companions for this character.
has the player considered the spirit shaman from Complete Divine?
Capricious Ancestor
This ancestor was a famous adventurer renowned for his courage and spirit. While under the Aspect of Adventure, the cleric gains a +2 divine bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, Hide, Move Silently, and Sense Motive checks. He also gains Evasion and Uncanny Dodge as a rogue of his cleric level.
These ancestor spirits are a cool idea. If I might suggest a minor change, "auspicious ancestor" might be a better title for this particular one: auspicious = lucky; capricious = unpredictable and inconsistent
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
These ancestor spirits are a cool idea. If I might suggest a minor change, "auspicious ancestor" might be a better title for this particular one: auspicious = lucky; capricious = unpredictable and inconsistent
You're quite right. When I wrote the name I was thinking of a very carefree and chaotic spirit but I realized that what I was really going for was just a 'roguish' type. Perhaps 'Cunning Ancestor' would be more appropriate as well.