I couldn't find any other threads on this..
Ok so my group decided to fidle with this killer trap in Bozal's room on the second night. Low and behold the party rogue caught a one way trip into the chest. After that the party wizard being the most brilliant of the group tried to beat will save dc and ended up inside as well. So now I'm stuck trying to figure out how to salvage this debacle as the other players in the group ane not the brightest and I don't have high hopes of them figuring out how to save thier comrades. So my question is this, how did you handle this trap with your group?
My initial thoughts are to have Ekaym (sp) smuggle in a scroll of dispel magic. Which still calls into question who is going to cast it. So I'm considering making him a 1 level wizard or similiar so he can actually use the scroll for the group and save thier butts. All of this of course would come after they wrack thier brains for awhile and give up on it.
I couldn't find any other threads on this..
Ok so my group decided to fidle with this killer trap in Bozal's room on the second night. Low and behold the party rogue caught a one way trip into the chest. After that the party wizard being the most brilliant of the group tried to beat will save dc and ended up inside as well. So now I'm stuck trying to figure out how to salvage this debacle as the other players in the group ane not the brightest and I don't have high hopes of them figuring out how to save thier comrades. So my question is this, how did you handle this trap with your group?
My initial thoughts are to have Ekaym (sp) smuggle in a scroll of dispel magic. Which still calls into question who is going to cast it. So I'm considering making him a 1 level wizard or similiar so he can actually use the scroll for the group and save thier butts. All of this of course would come after they wrack thier brains for awhile and give up on it.
I think you're on the right track. Assuming there's at least one of them left smart enough not to mess with it, they should look to Ekaym for getting someone else to come in & get them out of the chest.
I couldn't find any other threads on this..
My initial thoughts are to have Ekaym (sp) smuggle in a scroll of dispel magic. Which still calls into question who is going to cast it. So I'm considering making him a 1 level wizard or similiar so he can actually use the scroll for the group and save thier butts. All of this of course would come after they wrack thier brains for awhile and give up on it.
If you just want something to get the players out of the chest, it would probably be easier if you have bring a one-shot wondorous item that casts a dispel magic. You don't have to worry about who can cast it then.
On the other hand if you want a little bit of tension as they try and sneak a mage past the guards back to the chest, go that way.
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I couldn't find any other threads on this..
Ok so my group decided to fidle with this killer trap in Bozal's room on the second night. Low and behold the party rogue caught a one way trip into the chest. After that the party wizard being the most brilliant of the group tried to beat will save dc and ended up inside as well. So now I'm stuck trying to figure out how to salvage this debacle as the other players in the group ane not the brightest and I don't have high hopes of them figuring out how to save thier comrades. So my question is this, how did you handle this trap with your group?
I let my group have a couple of checks for this.
Knowledge (Arcana) to work out pretty much what it was and did, with a good check getting how to extract people out of it who were caught (Dispel Evil being the only real option for our group).
I got the rogue to do a knowledge (local) check as well to see if he could remember any horrid rumours about a chest like this in the guild.
Knowledge (Religion) as an extra check in terms of the Kyuss orientation and what a trapped occupant might be subjected to (providing the wizard made the Arcana check).
Fortunately, the wizard rolled hot and so I also told him (he has skill focus (knowledge (arcana)) that to interact in any adversarial fashion would most likely earn the ire of the chest and a swift entrapment.
My group have left the chest for another time (the wizard has studied the room carefully in terms of teleporting) and so I expect the group to make some form of grab for it soon. I plan to give the rogue a +2 circumstance bonus on disabling it (boy is he going to need it) due to the wizard's information check. I have significantly upped the treasure in the chest. We'll see what becomes of it.
As for your group's situation, I have allowed manager's to bring in assistants or outside help. Bringing in the services of a wizard or cleric to extract them would seem reasonable (if a very expensive option for poor Ekaym).
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
You could always nerf the chest if it proves too tough for them. Have it spit them back out 24 hours later (or when a fairly obvious command word, like "Kyuss," is spoken), minus one level drained, or something like that.
We haven't gotten this far yet, and I think my player is smart enough to be cautious, but it is certainly a nasty trap with a high potential for character destruction. (I guess we'll have to put Tito Leati on the evil and devious DM list with James and Erik, the werecabbages, Mike Mearls, et al.)
A couple good idea's here. My biggest problem is that both the rogue and wizard have gotten themselves trapped inside of it. So knowledge checks are pretty much a no go as the group consist's now of a couple dumb fighters who like to show up and roll dice most the night. I hate to cheese the trap by giving an easy out in the end but I don't want to see a pc lost at this point in the adventure eathier. I'm considering upping the treasure list if they figure it out themselves if not I may end up just hitting them with negative energy levels and spitting them out later as suggested.
I'm at this exact same spot, and my players really put me in a twist. They put the chest in their bag of holding and actually smuggled it out of the coenoby (the player dived down the lavatory pipe when attacked by the alkalith demon). He then gave it to Eligos to study(!).
Complicating matters is the fact that one player's character got killed by said demon, and is now running a couple npc hirelings in the Games. He's creating a rogue character whose first job is going to be to open that chest once the PCs finish the Games.
This could work out very cool if I time it right. The thief (who is a 'contractor' with the Gray Hand, which one of the PCs is a member of) shows up for work after the Games is over, and the group goes to Eligos' place right as the last of his essence is fading away in the chest. That should really ratchet up the suspense.
Our group ended up blasting the chest up from a distance with lightning bolt (taking the chance that things inside would pass saves) and the like as we'd tried to dispel it, rolled a 19 (on the die) and failed thus figuring there was basically no way of doing it at this level by conventional means. The rogue wasn't going anywhere near it as, from previous experience in this adventure path, really bad things can, scratch that, DO happen when you mess around with magic traps.
This trap is simply wrong for this level of adventure and shouldn't be in it at all especially when you actually find out what's inside it (which begs the question if there isn't anything amazingly valuable in it, why would someone go to all this trouble?). If the players have no way of getting round it at all - even with maxed out skills/feats coupled with thinking outside the box (pun intended) etc - then it shouldn't be included. What is the point of having a rogue or wizard who's job it is to get past this kind of thing if the adventure basically condems them to death for even attempting it? Yes make it hard, just don't make it impossible
Just my (and the group i play with's) opinion
I'm doing this from memory, but I believe that doing sufficient damage to the chest actually broke the trap and freed anyone inside. Those dealing the damage had to save against the trap, I think, but I can't remember if that was true if they used ranged attacks.
Assuming I'm remembering that right, you might want to hint to them that simply breaking the thing might work, and either help them think of ranged weapons (adamantine throwing axes) or else just describe things so they keep it up ("Well, Bob failed his save and got sucked into the trap, but his axe blow seems to have done a lot of damage - one or two more hits ought to do it").
Our group ended up blasting the chest up from a distance with lightning bolt (taking the chance that things inside would pass saves) and the like as we'd tried to dispel it, rolled a 19 (on the die) and failed thus figuring there was basically no way of doing it at this level by conventional means. The rogue wasn't going anywhere near it as, from previous experience in this adventure path, really bad things can, scratch that, DO happen when you mess around with magic traps.
This trap is simply wrong for this level of adventure and shouldn't be in it at all especially when you actually find out what's inside it (which begs the question if there isn't anything amazingly valuable in it, why would someone go to all this trouble?). If the players have no way of getting round it at all - even with maxed out skills/feats coupled with thinking outside the box (pun intended) etc - then it shouldn't be included. What is the point of having a rogue or wizard who's job it is to get past this kind of thing if the adventure basically condems them to death for even attempting it? Yes make it hard, just don't make it impossible
Just my (and the group i play with's) opinion
Rereading the description, the trap is difficult but not impossible to bypass or disarm, for a 9th level party. Don't forget rogues can disable magic devices, and a rogue who has maxed this skill and has a good dex bonus and is taking advantage of feats like skill focus ought to have a shot (about 25% chance, plus or minus) at doing so with this one. The rogue should be able to find the trap (about 50% chance--if he's got a high intelligence and synergy, racial, or feat bonus to search he might even take 10 and succeed. And hopefully the wierd look of the chest prompts spellcasters to detect magic and pick up the chest's necromantic aura, which in turn should lead to suspicion of a nasty magical trap.
Once it's clear that the chest is magically trapped, the party might be smart enough to cast magic boosting the rogue's will save and dexterity before he tries to disarm it. (Owl's wisdom, resistance, cat's grace). The bard, if you have one, should use his music to inspire competence as well. The bard spell good hope also grants a +2 morale bonus on all saves that stacks with resistance and owl's wisdom.
At least one spell (besides the very difficult dispel magic check) castable by a 9th level cleric can release a trapped character unfailingly. And if the party has no cleric, they can always have Ekaym take the chest to Eligos, who ought to have no trouble figuring out what kind of magic will counteract the problem. He certainly knows at least one 11th level mage in town, and if not can teleport off to Manzorian to have the problem solved by placing the chest in an antimagic field.
So--experienced players ought not to meet complete disaster with this chest--less experienced players may not think of all the precautions and options available to them, and it might be appropriate for the DM to coach them a bit or nerf the chest a bit by lowering the DCs or having it spit them back out again with negative levels as I suggested earlier.
The treasure inside also includes at least one mighty nice magic item that boosts one character's net worth by about 50% (based on wealth per level guidelines in the DMG for 9th level characters), plus a bunch of minor, but potentially useful items.
Since no open DC is listed for the lock, I assume it's just a latching mechanism--but if the DM wants to say it's locked, presumably Bozal Zahol has the key, and if he's been killed there is no problem with actually unlocking the chest, except for the trap.
Assuming you're not finished with the chest yet, Deree, I've just given you a bundle of spoilers--otherwise, hopefully you can find a couple of useful pointers that will help you deal with future nasty surprises (and yes, more will be coming if you continue the adventure path--party cooperation is the key--spellcasters need to think about how they can use their abilities to create synergies by buffing the other party members at key moments).
In my group it was the cleric of Heironeous that got trapped (he had a free round during the fight with Bozak and decided to rummage). They couldn't figure the trap out and didn't really want to mess with it, so they had the rogue and the paladin (also of Heironeous)sneak out through the sewers with the chest and run to the temple of Heironeous with it to get the magic dispelled. Then they had to race back to the Coenoby to be there in time for their next day's bout (they had already bribed the guards not to notice their absence.) I gave the three of them an exhaustion penalty in their next fight, but they survived.
Why is it one of the pc's always has to go running off into the next room while the party is mopping up? I've killed the same character twice doing things like that and I'm about to kill another as he ran into the akilith (sp) demon while exploring as the others were looking at the chest that thier two buddies got sucked into.
In my group it was the cleric of Heironeous that got trapped (he had a free round during the fight with Bozak and decided to rummage). They couldn't figure the trap out and didn't really want to mess with it, so they had the rogue and the paladin (also of Heironeous)sneak out through the sewers with the chest and run to the temple of Heironeous with it to get the magic dispelled. Then they had to race back to the Coenoby to be there in time for their next day's bout (they had already bribed the guards not to notice their absence.) I gave the three of them an exhaustion penalty in their next fight, but they survived.
And what the heck's a Muryland's Spoon, anyway? I can't find anything about that anywhere.
And what the heck's a Muryland's Spoon, anyway? I can't find anything about that anywhere.
If you're looking in the SRD, try Sustaining Spoon under Wondrous Items. It's in the Dungeon Master's guide, but the name is Wizard's property.
The main problem is what rogue in his right mind would even attempt to disarm it when a wizard of the same level has failed to dispell it on several really good rolls.
As i said unless you happen to have a rogue who's taken specific feats and has maxed out on disable device and has a bard to help and maybe another rogue to aid another and has masterwork tools and has any synergy bonus' there are - it is pretty much impossible to disarm - even then i don't rate the chances.
25% chance is a very generous estimate - unless you mean there might be a 25% chance that the rogue doesn't get sucked into the trap.
It's a nasty trap, to be sure, but like a number of traps earlier in the series, it should be obvious enough to a party that is paying attention. I mean, if the look of the thing alone is not enough to rouse suspicion, a simple detect magic will reveal the strong necromancy etc upon it; I also ruled it detected as evil. So if you go playing with an evil, necromantic chest with all kinds of nasty pictures on the sides, well, you should expect something pretty nasty to come about...
In my game, the group worked out it was bad news, but wanted to bash their way in regardless (they can be a bit reckless like that, enjoying the danger element I guess, but they know it might end badly). Luckily, the first Will save was a success (rolled a 16, when he needed about a 16 on the dice), then from there they used dispel magic to suppress the effect for long enough to bash their way in. I can't imagine more than one would ever have got sucked in - one save (even a successful one) was enough to make them chance their approach. If someone did get sucked in, I imagine my group would have been looking towards say Eligos to help them out, assuming the party wizard and cleric were stumped.
The thing with nasty traps at higher levels is, generally a magic user is much more reliable than a rogue, both for detecting as well as defeating them.
The main problem is what rogue in his right mind would even attempt to disarm it when a wizard of the same level has failed to dispell it on several really good rolls.
As i said unless you happen to have a rogue who's taken specific feats and has maxed out on disable device and has a bard to help and maybe another rogue to aid another and has masterwork tools and has any synergy bonus' there are - it is pretty much impossible to disarm - even then i don't rate the chances.
25% chance is a very generous estimate - unless you mean there might be a 25% chance that the rogue doesn't get sucked into the trap.
I think designers typically set DCs for locks and traps to make them challenging for rogues who have maxed out their disable device and open lock skills. Otherwise it's not a challenge for the majority of parties. A DM might see fit to alter things for his particular party--if they don't have a rogue or the rogue is playing a different role than the person who gets them through traps and locks. Granted that many other builds are possible for a rogue, it is good to keep those skills maxed out and snatch any feats or synergies you can get for them--they are what parties want a rogue along for in the first place. Anyhow, there is no real reason the party has to open the chest, except greed and the challenge of the thing.
>> poss spoilers ahead <<
This chest has become a interesting sidetrek in my campaign. Our party lacks a "real" rogue, they only have a rogue/bard. So they decided to stuff the chest into their bag of holding for later examination.
Between TCB and TGoW they consulted a high-level rogue in Sharn (Freeport) with the help of Tirra who has some connections to local thief guilds. The deal was an upfront payment of 5000 GM plus first choice for the rogue on the contents of the chest. Unfortunatly the rogue fumbles on his disable device roll and was sucked in... :) and the party put the chest back in their bag.
While in TGoW their fighter was captured by Flycatcher and broaught to the shadow plane. The group agreed to kill the true ghule but was successfull in confincing that they need their strongest fighter to do so. They offered the chest as a deposit and Flycatcher agreed.
Lets see how this will end...
/casting summon dead thread iv
So last night, my wonderful band of adventurers have stumbled across this chest adorned with the skull of Kyuss. After a careful examination by the rogue (without touching it, as he was quick to point out), and declaring it free of traps, he decided to open it. A failed save and the room was suddenly minus one. A quick perception check (we have made the conversion to Alpha 3, but I degress) notices the familar face being tortured on the side of the chest. Some Knowledge (Arcana) checks, and it is decided that probably a dispell magic or more powerful spell could free the comrade from his prison. Dispell magic fails, and a quick assesment of party abilites determines this is WAY beyond them. So the warlock decides to blast it a couple times to try to damage the chest. 3 blasts, one failed save, and the rogue now has some company. A couple buffs, and the valiant paladin brings forth his legacy Holy Avenger and joins his friends in Nightmare Wormland. At this point, I have the three "guests" roll the first d4 and proceed to tell them that its Charisma, Wisdom and Intelligence damage.
So here comes the druid. Not actually attacking the chest, but summoning a Nature's Ally to do the dirty work. 4 spells later, and the room is suddenly full of naked men and disoriented animals. But at least they got the hand full of (as the rogue descirbed best $#!^) that the chest contained. A wonderful trap if the party has a balance of characters, but since we have Fighter, Paladin, Druid, Rogue, and Warlock, not a nice one at all. So the party decides to return to Coenoby where the next arena battle is set to take place in a few hours. The guards take notice as the three men in the party return from the sanctuary with just blankets and sheets as clothing. A Bribe, a quick word with Eakym, (who is somewhat releived upon finding out the fate of his sister) and that his gladiators took care of her (which they sort of forgot to do). He manages to take the winnings so far and provide the men with a few trinkets to hopefully make it through the next battle.
My problem is, my party now has 3 members with very little magic equipment. The rogue had just spent his savings up until now to equip himself with much needed items (First few adventures kind of not favored him for treasure), and the Paladin lost a Weapon of Legacy. But at least its not as bad as the Bag of Holding that the Warlock had. Since the items are traped in the dreams of Kyuss, I intend to give them an opportunity to get their items back (By adding a vision to the SoLS? of the three of them being tortured, and letting the party participate in their "rescue")
Just curious if anyone else had a simmilar event and how did you handle it?
I think I got really lucky on this one, because my PCS were so afraid of the box - just from the description - that no one dared touch it.
But I think if you get several PCs trapped inside, you could devise
a way for those trapped to escape. If you have Heroes of Horror, you could make use of some of the "dream realm" ideas (granted, you have to make up
an adventure for this from scratch, but it gives them a way out).
My party found a rather novel way around the trap. The party artificer was doubling as a trap monkey in this instance. He detected the trap without a problem (the nasty carving in the chest also gave it away) but he rolled horribly in trying to disarm it. One failed will save later and he was sucked into the chest. So that the party would not think that he was disintegrated, I ruled the party saw him physically being shrunk and sucked inside the chest.
The party psion had maxed out arcane knowledge skills, so she was able to figure out what happened. She also was able to figure out that breaking the chest would also disable the trap. So the party gave her the sole adamantine weapon (a morning star, I think), she created a strong Astral Construct with the power attack feat, handed it the weapon, and let it have at the chest. It did not matter that it was non-proficient in the weapon as it always struck and it would power attack for all it was able. Of course it would fail the will save and end up being sucked inside the chest, but the psion would just summon another, have it pick up the morning star, and pick up right where the previous one left off. The text specified that all possessions of the suck-ee were left behind so she was able to do this. With an adamantine weapon wielded 2 handed with power attack, the chest lasted about 3 rounds. The party artificer returned from his ordeal naked, with some ability damage, and babbling about worms crawling all over him, but ok considering his ordeal.
I imagine a party with some summoning magic could pull off something similar if they had an adamantine weapon if they did not have a psion with the astral construct power.
This little tale just goes to show that DM's should never underestimate the creativity of PC's.
/casting summon dead thread iv
So last night, my wonderful band of adventurers have stumbled across this chest adorned with the skull of Kyuss. After a careful examination by the rogue (without touching it, as he was quick to point out), and declaring it free of traps, he decided to open it. A failed save and the room was suddenly minus one. A quick perception check (we have made the conversion to Alpha 3, but I degress) notices the familar face being tortured on the side of the chest. Some Knowledge (Arcana) checks, and it is decided that probably a dispell magic or more powerful spell could free the comrade from his prison. Dispell magic fails, and a quick assesment of party abilites determines this is WAY beyond them. So the warlock decides to blast it a couple times to try to damage the chest. 3 blasts, one failed save, and the rogue now has some company. A couple buffs, and the valiant paladin brings forth his legacy Holy Avenger and joins his friends in Nightmare Wormland. At this point, I have the three "guests" roll the first d4 and proceed to tell them that its Charisma, Wisdom and Intelligence damage.
So here comes the druid. Not actually attacking the chest, but summoning a Nature's Ally to do the dirty work. 4 spells later, and the room is suddenly full of naked men and disoriented animals. But at least they got the hand full of (as the rogue descirbed best $#!^) that the chest contained. A wonderful trap if the party has a balance of characters, but since we have Fighter, Paladin, Druid, Rogue, and Warlock, not a nice one at all. So the party decides to return to Coenoby where the next arena battle is set to take place in a few hours. The guards take notice as the three men in the party return from the sanctuary with just blankets and sheets as clothing. A Bribe, a quick word with Eakym, (who is somewhat releived upon finding out the fate of his sister) and that his gladiators took care of her (which they sort of forgot to do). He manages to take the winnings so far and...
The text actually says that the character leaves his clothing and equipment behind on the material plane when he disappears.
However, if you missed that, you probably need to get them their stuff back before the final battle. You could have it mysteriously reappear on their body just before they wake up in the morning.
If you really want to make them sweat, have the stuff appear in the Apostle's belly, and have it vomit them on to the arena floor among the skeletons and zombies.
Waiting until the spire to give it back is way to long, IMO.