Alright. Can you cast a DELAYED Animate Dead spell...having the corpse as well as the opal in place? or would you just have to have them in place then, obviously, cast the spell right away and have the effects be instantaneous- as per normal?
Furthermore, can you cast Animate Dead on a corpse with Gentle Repose cast on it?
I presume you can since there should be no such hindrance to the enterprising necromancer.
(I ask the first question because I decided to disturb the corpse of my player character's brother, by placing a black opal in the mouth- and this would be rather than a useless shell of a black opal. So, would this basically be placing the corpse in line to be animated via a clerc/wizard necromancer or necromancer proxy such as a glyph spell or a ward of some sort? I'm looking for ideas to animate dead on the move essentially. Rather in character the PC appraised the opal, even admitted out of character what I was clearly trying to do and put the opal BACK in his mouth, he even told the npc cleric rather cryptically, asking if he put any stones in his brother's mouth, and the cleric said no, what kind of stone? and with his PC answering funky stone or the like rather than "black opal" the Cleric shook it off as a weird dwarven practice as he is a halfling from a land far away.)
I guess I might be either getting too creative or too stupid to animate dead properly in the fashion I'm attempting to. (I'm still thinking of the problem the pcs are encountering as a plague of undead, so far the pcs are separated but they'll be brought together on the issue soon.)
If you guys don't support the Animating Dead on the Go idea, then I'll probably let the corpse of the PC's brother rest in peace with a cryptic gift in his mouth. It was just one of the on the fly ideas I had after not having had any sleep, perhaps I put too much emphasis on what looked like a disturbed covering to the body and not enough on the possibility that it could have happened later for instance, like during the night after their last encounter. Oh well, if one evil plan doesn't work, there'll certainly be another I can use.
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I am just trying to figure out to what end you want to do this.
Here are a number of thoughts --
There is a "Delay Spell" feat -- but it really only delays a spell for a few rounds. (Complete Arcane)
There is a "Craft Contingency" feat -- this might be a little easier to modify for your needs. (Again, I believe Complete Arcane)
The "Contingency" spell I believe has to affect spells that can be cast on your person. You might be able to rule differently or come up with an alternate version of the spell.
The thing to remember is that you don't necessarily need to find a rule for this kind of situation. If a village has some kind of ritual that they perform when a person dies and the body comes back as a zombie two years later to the day, then so be it.
My point is that I don't think that there is a specific rule for your situation -- but don't let that stop you from doing it (as long as it fits your campaign).
Good luck.
If I were the necromancer ruler of a nation, I would include a dental plan for my soldiers which used black opals as false teeth, and use Contingency, where the subject has to die, then Create Undead on the subject.
That way, my fallen soldiers will get right back up as zombies if they die, and if they don't die, at least they'll look fancy in the mouth.
It's win-win-win.
I am just trying to figure out to what end you want to do this.
Here are a number of thoughts --
There is a "Delay Spell" feat -- but it really only delays a spell for a few rounds. (Complete Arcane)
There is a "Craft Contingency" feat -- this might be a little easier to modify for your needs. (Again, I believe Complete Arcane)
The "Contingency" spell I believe has to affect spells that can be cast on your person. You might be able to rule differently or come up with an alternate version of the spell.
The thing to remember is that you don't necessarily need to find a rule for this kind of situation. If a village has some kind of ritual that they perform when a person dies and the body comes back as a zombie two years later to the day, then so be it.
My point is that I don't think that there is a specific rule for your situation -- but don't let that stop you from doing it (as long as it fits your campaign).
Good luck.
Contingency isn't in Complete Arcane, but I'll search for it online real quick...yeah it's in some funky book (LEoF) I don't think I have, but I don't think it applies anyway, unless I were to modify it.
I think I'll just have someone sneak in, put an opal in, fearing alerting the sleeping adventurers via the horses in a nearby coral, so not casting the spell (thus why Detect Magic- which would detect a magical item- didn't bear any fruit for my player's barbarian/druid.)
Then, when they reach a certain point along the trail...the spell animate dead is cast? See, I would just have a necromancer sneak in, but there's a ghost in the party so he doesn't sleep, might have to take care of him individually with some special ghost spells if I go with the thief in the night routine...
Still, I think there should be some way to have a spell be cast on a point of a trail perhaps- if the corpse (with the necessary opal) reaches that point on the trail, then the ward or whatever would be activated. There has to be a way to do that. Maybe I'l just go with an invisible necromancer...
oh, and since the plague of undead could literally be via a plague (as bodies being transported along the Ghostwalk are literally rising and attacking the caravans that bear them) meaning that the god of plague in the campaign could be behind this, and thus a supernatural method of animating dead could be practical. Otherwise I'd just have sneaky cleric go in and animate the corpse(s).
irregardless, thanks for the advice!
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Contingency isn't in Complete Arcane,...
From Complete Arcane p. 77 --
Craft Contingent Spell
You can make contingent any spell that you know. Crafting a contingent spell takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price (spell level x caster level x 100 gp)...
You get the idea.
Page 139 of the Complete Arcane has more information on contigent spells if you are interested in going that route. It may simply give you some information on how to run that kind of scenario.
Contingency isn't in Complete Arcane,...From Complete Arcane p. 77 --
Craft Contingent Spell
You can make contingent any spell that you know. Crafting a contingent spell takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price (spell level x caster level x 100 gp)...You get the idea.
Page 139 of the Complete Arcane has more information on contigent spells if you are interested in going that route. It may simply give you some information on how to run that kind of scenario.
Thanks, I overlooked it. (as in it wasn't on the metamagic feat chart, where I assumed it would be)
I think I figured out how it'd work, but still, for the contingent spell to be cast on the body in question, it'd have to be while he was still alive?
Still, I'm looking at maybe casting a contingent spell on an item, such as a gold piece, so that if it comes in proximity to the already prepared body, then it would animate dead, and this would happen to any such prepared body that would take on the item. I do think a gold piece is a little too...innocuous? In that I want the pc(s) to not think twice about taking on the item into the cart, but I want them to think about it once. (since this method would also be used on commoners, though the item might be intentionally different.)
Would that be a viable option?
How about a ward spell, or something like that, just an area of effect that would animate dead or create undead if the appropriate corpse comes into contact with it? (again, if need be I'm thinking of evil clerics fooling people into putting black onyx gems into the mouths of their recently dead, or rather sneaking them into the mouths of the dead as part of some "ritual" and then going ahead of the caravan with a contingent spell item and drop that in their path so that if the group were to pick up the item, as the poor and foolish likely would, then their beloved would be animated...but perhaps 10 minutes later. (delay spell might work with contingent spell, right?- again the proxmity could be the real trick so that this effect might not be necessary.)
Why would anyone want to delay bringing more zombies into the world?
Booby trap -- take out the gem, deal with a zombie.
Just a thought :)
I'm sorry, Joe, but I'm having an extremely difficult time actually reading your posts and figuring out exactly what you are doing and what you want.
I'm sorry, Joe, but I'm having an extremely difficult time actually reading your posts and figuring out exactly what you are doing and what you want.
Sorry, I ramble on a bit.
Simply put, or as simply put as I can put it...
I want to Animate Undead, preferably via a ward or the like- a delayed effect or just by a method that would be nigh imperceptable to the party.
The idea is that there is the Ghostwalk, a trail that people bring their dead along to the city of Manifest to send the dead on through the Veil of Souls, that being said, I'm trying to figure out a way to literally disrupt this journey and Animate Dead/Create Undead along this trail.
So far, in game, I have a corpse with a black onyx gem in its mouth and a more or less unsuspecting party, and it is on it's way to Manifest. I could either, animate dead via some means or leave the corpse be and assume the attempt to animate dead was actually aborted.
The idea is that I want a method by which that corpse, and other corpses, might be animated without the traditional necromancer walking up and casting it- thus alerting the party, giving himself away etc.
The idea is that there is a Plague of Undead, and that the dead that are being transported along the Ghostwalk are rising, attacking their transporters and heading in the direction of Manifest or otherwise disappearing. (I could get around the direct casting problem by having a deity or demon prince intervene).
Again, I apologize, I'm new to DMing and I'm just trying to create a feasible way to challenge my party with mysterious circumstances.
Now I think I see what you're getting at. Very interesting. So, do you have something specific in mind that you want to trigger this animation? Such as reaching a certain point along the way to Manifest or a certain amount of time after death? Or are you just trying to create a bunch of undead without anyone noticing the method used?
I'm not sure how appropriate it is to your campaign, but for a really good depiction of a plague of undeath, I have to recommend Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos. The first two campaigns, human and undead, in that game actually has some of the best storyline/character development I've seen in a game, and also is loaded with ideas about insidious undead, just waiting to be ported over to D&D.
More direct to your question, however... I would say that you could probably use the Craft Wondrous Item feat to create an item, priced more or less like a scroll of Animate Dead, that would wait a certain amount of time, ranging from hours to weeks, before casting the spell. Perhaps a form of enchanted burial shroud? Required spells would obviously include Animate Dead, but perhaps also Gentle Repose?
Isn't there are form of rune magic in Faerun that would let you turn a spell into a glyph-type item? I believe it's oriented towards divine magic.
Also, if you're looking to get a "dark power", such as a deity or archfiend to animate the dead creature, you could probably use the sacrifice rules found in the Book of Vile Darkness. Since you're trying to remain inconspicuous, it seems, you'd need to perform the sacrifice somewhere other than right over the body to be animated, but I'd not have a problem with that as a DM. Although, why you wouldn't just reanimate the body you just sacrificed might raise some eyebrows...
Also not sure how appropriate it is to your situation, but speaking of dark powers and the undead, I think Pit Fiends can cast Animate Dead at will. Also, Orcus is your friend here!
Now I think I see what you're getting at. Very interesting. So, do you have something specific in mind that you want to trigger this animation? Such as reaching a certain point along the way to Manifest or a certain amount of time after death? Or are you just trying to create a bunch of undead without anyone noticing the method used?
I'm not sure how appropriate it is to your campaign, but for a really good depiction of a plague of undeath, I have to recommend Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos. The first two campaigns, human and undead, in that game actually has some of the best storyline/character development I've seen in a game, and also is loaded with ideas about insidious undead, just waiting to be ported over to D&D.
More direct to your question, however... I would say that you could probably use the Craft Wondrous Item feat to create an item, priced more or less like a scroll of Animate Dead, that would wait a certain amount of time, ranging from hours to weeks, before casting the spell. Perhaps a form of enchanted burial shroud? Required spells would obviously include Animate Dead, but perhaps also Gentle Repose?
Isn't there are form of rune magic in Faerun that would let you turn a spell into a glyph-type item? I believe it's oriented towards divine magic.
Also, if you're looking to get a "dark power", such as a deity or archfiend to animate the dead creature, you could probably use the sacrifice rules found in the Book of Vile Darkness. Since you're trying to remain inconspicuous, it seems, you'd need to perform the sacrifice somewhere other than right over the body to be animated, but I'd not have a problem with that as a DM. Although, why you wouldn't just reanimate the body you just sacrificed might raise some eyebrows...
Also not sure how appropriate it is to your situation, but speaking of dark powers and the undead, I think Pit Fiends can cast Animate Dead at will. Also, Orcus is your friend here!
I'll look into what items the corpse already has, so craft contingent and wondrous item might bear fruit. I do like the idea of a gentle repose shroud though, too bad it is too late to use that. (as they're almost half way to manifest and unless they lose the cleric, they won't need to purchase such an item from the next town they get to).
Alright, I'm having trouble finding the thread that mentions it, but there is a spell like mage hand that allows you to cast touch attack spells? (Peruhain mentioned one or the other and this spell was the result of the mention of mage hand to cast touch spells on whatever thread I read)
If so, that'd be do able to raise dead, though I think I am leaning towards looking up the sacrifice rules and ruling that Orcus (ingenious that you mention him as a friend) influences Khostren (the demigod of plague and trickery) to send out his clerics to essentially provide the vector by which the plague of undead is spread.
I'd go with a pit fiend, but that's a little too...suspicious?
I'll throw one in the mix later when the PCs are higher levels, maybe...(Hello Aspect of Orcus, how are you?)
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Alright, I'm having trouble finding the thread that mentions it, but there is a spell like mage hand that allows you to cast touch attack spells? (Peruhain mentioned one or the other and this spell was the result of the mention of mage hand to cast touch spells on whatever thread I read)
If so, that'd be do able to raise dead, though I think I am leaning towards looking up the sacrifice rules and ruling that Orcus (ingenious that you mention him as a friend) influences Khostren (the demigod of plague and trickery) to send out his clerics to essentially provide the vector by which the plague of undead is spread.
Not sure about the thread you are talking about, but two thoughts come to mind. Spectral hand (Player's Handbook) is a spell that will allow you to cast touch spells up to medium range. The other option might be the reach spell feat from Complete Divine that allows a caster to cast touch spells up to 30 feet (I believe). Spectral Hand is limited to 4th level spells or lower.
A lot of the talk regarding spectral hand has come in with the Dread Necromancer class from Heroes of Horror because a number of their special abilities can be used with Spectral Hand.
I still feel that the craft contingent spell is the way to go. Perhaps you can modify it so that the gemstone itself is prepared with the contingent spell on it well ahead of time and they have somehow been mixed in with other burial rite gemstones.
At any rate -- good luck with this.
Alright, I'm having trouble finding the thread that mentions it, but there is a spell like mage hand that allows you to cast touch attack spells? (Peruhain mentioned one or the other and this spell was the result of the mention of mage hand to cast touch spells on whatever thread I read)
If so, that'd be do able to raise dead, though I think I am leaning towards looking up the sacrifice rules and ruling that Orcus (ingenious that you mention him as a friend) influences Khostren (the demigod of plague and trickery) to send out his clerics to essentially provide the vector by which the plague of undead is spread.Not sure about the thread you are talking about, but two thoughts come to mind. Spectral hand (Player's Handbook) is a spell that will allow you to cast touch spells up to medium range. The other option might be the reach spell feat from Complete Divine that allows a caster to cast touch spells up to 30 feet (I believe). Spectral Hand is limited to 4th level spells or lower.
A lot of the talk regarding spectral hand has come in with the Dread Necromancer class from Heroes of Horror because a number of their special abilities can be used with Spectral Hand.
I still feel that the craft contingent spell is the way to go. Perhaps you can modify it so that the gemstone itself is prepared with the contingent spell on it well ahead of time and they have somehow been mixed in with other burial rite gemstones.
At any rate -- good luck with this.
Spectral Hand, thanks!
What's the Dread Necromancer from again? I might just have to incorporate one into my campaign as an evil npc, I haven't read up on 'em in a while so I'm unsure of the qualities they possess.I actually think, considering the hands on approach that has been taken with this corpse, that spectral hand might be the best way, that or yes a craft contingent spell on an item that would be placed in the cart with the corpse.
But the craft contingent spell would be detected by "Detect Magic" wouldn't it?
See, the druid already cast detect magic on the onyx gem and surrounding items, only to be let down as there was no magic to be found. (As I decided that there had been no magic performed, merely the placing of the spell component.)
However I do it, and if I have a couple of methods that is good, I'll be replicating it throughout the setting since it is occuring on a regular basis. but one could presume that agents of Khostren, clerics even, are placing the gems in the mouths of the common dead, then, perhaps they are placing craft contingent items along the path that are either triggered by A. distance from Manifest, though I think I prefer a more variable factor. B. proximity to the corpse. C. the condition that it is a certain time at night...so that some of the corpses literally disappear as opposed to attack the commoners.
Thanks!
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Dread Necromancer --> Heroes of Horror
An item with Craft Contingency on it should probably show up as magical -- however...
You could have Nystul's Magic Aura cast on the gems to hide the magic aura for a good number of days. You could even rule that you could combine that with Permanency so that it will never show up as magical unless they do an identify on the gem -- and they have no reason to suspect otherwise.
The problem is that if clerics are truly behind this whole thing, then assistance from the Abyss would probably make more sense with the spells necessary to pull something like this off.
The problem is that if clerics are truly behind this whole thing, then assistance from the Abyss would probably make more sense with the spells necessary to pull something like this off.
Well, as far as the clerics are concerned, they are also working with Wizardly Necromancers as the evil necromancer in charge of the whole plot is a True Necromancer (Lich at that)
So yes, arcane spells would figure in with a surprising degree, even if clerics are doing a lot of the dirty work. (Worshipers of Afflux, Orcus and Khostren would be working for this Necromancer, who is a cleric of Afflux, the loyalties of the clerics of orcus however would come into question at some point, as would the clerics of Khostren, but as far as Orcus is concerned, the more undead there are, the better for his plots.)
So, one could cast craft contingent, and say Nystal's Magical Aura on an onyx gem, and thus use it as a temporary magical item, a one time use animate dead gem. So I'm basically saying that, and this is possibly a team of a cleric and an arcane necromancer, there's someone pumping out black onyx gems with craft contigent (animate dead) and nystal's magical aura cast on them, and these are being spread out along the ghostwalk, thus giving various results based on how long the journey is to get the gem there and so on...but this wouldn't be an incredibly high level necromancer, probably just a mid level one...and the contingent could very easily be the nystal's magical aura spell ending, right? or a set amount of days depending on where the gems might be going.
yes I'm thinking of a nefarious organization that is dispersing 25 gp black onyx gems across countries, that would be animating the dead as skeletons or zombies.
Sounds like a plan to me.
Thanks Moff!
Nice, this cleric of Nyx is taking this thread very seriously into consideration. Very nice.
Diabolical indeed.
The beginning of the demise of Orcus is nigh. I shall make it MY slave!
Nice, this cleric of Nyx is taking this thread very seriously into consideration. Very nice.
Diabolical indeed.The beginning of the demise of Orcus is nigh. I shall make it MY slave!
If this campaign were to go on long enough, I might let my players try to kill Orcus...
No, no, no... I think you're both misguided. The true path is to follow the Savage Tide's lead and kill Demogorgon... once and for all. Stupid bird-footed, snakey-tentacled, two-baboon-headed excuse for one of Gygax's bad trips....
"Urrr! Me prince of demons! Me scary!"
....
"Me scary?"
....
"Please, me scary?"
... "Kill it."
Then Orcus takes over as the true Prince of Demons (since he actually LOOKS like a classical demon), undead and fiends unite and live happily ever after (more or less) to plague adventurers for eternity. Ah, I do love a happy ending.... :)
No, no, no... I think you're both misguided. The true path is to follow the Savage Tide's lead and kill Demogorgon... once and for all. Stupid bird-footed, snakey-tentacled, two-baboon-headed excuse for one of Gygax's bad trips....
"Urrr! Me prince of demons! Me scary!"
....
"Me scary?"
....
"Please, me scary?"
... "Kill it."
Then Orcus takes over as the true Prince of Demons (since he actually LOOKS like a classical demon), undead and fiends unite and live happily ever after (more or less) to plague adventurers for eternity. Ah, I do love a happy ending.... :)
hilarious, and likely a truely wise course of action...
Besides I just said I'd let them TRY to kill Orcus, I'd really just like to see them TRY, considering they probably won't be in epic levels by the time they'd incur his wrath. (Killing his clerics, hunting undead, pissing on his temples, you know the drill...) Then, to try to kill them, they'd just have to get through oh...300 undead? a couple demons here and there, and then Orcus himself.
But considering they can come back as ghosts, it wouldn't be THAT inconvenient, but earning up the cash to become fully manifested all the time (it just takes a 10,000 gp ring...) would be on their agendas, short of sticking around the manifest ward...
Well, I put the plan into effect...
Nystul's magic aura dispelled 3 days after Drotto found the onyx gem in his brother's mouth, and put it back. Luckily for drotto the slam attack missed, but it was coming from a prone zombie and wouldn't have hurt the dwarf too much...drotto yielded initiative to the 9th level cleric who cast cure serious wounds on the zombie, obliderating the negative energy in the zombie brother.
what are some good magic schools to exclude from a necromancer? sure I could just have them buy scrolls of nystul's magic aura (at about 6th level caster or higher, since it the travel time to get the gem to thurkasia might be significant.), but I don't want to completely rule out illusion and divination from my necromancers.
Thanks again, everybody, but predominantly Moff Rimmer since, thanks to him, I now have the means by which the nefarious organization, composed of necromancers, evil clerics and wizards, and sneakier types, might place the 25 gp onyx gems into the mouths of the recently dead and produce zombies and skeletons without having to stick around for it to happen. (sneak in, or pretend to perform some ritual or cast Gentle Repose and slide in the gem).