I know a portion of the community has already started the Adventure Path and I didn't see an existing thread with this question: Is the Savage Tide campaign too difficult or nuanced to use as a first campaign for a new player? I'm starting a new group here at school and one of my friends is excited to start playing for the first time, the other two members have had experience with D&D. Is it more advisable to play them through a campaign a bit more "traditional" in flavor and perhaps a little less difficult than the adventure path or is it better just to start them off with the good stuff? I haven't yet gotten the first adventure, so I'm not exactly sure about difficulty. What are your suggestions?
I know a portion of the community has already started the Adventure Path and I didn't see an existing thread with this question: Is the Savage Tide campaign too difficult or nuanced to use as a first campaign for a new player?
Having read through the whole thing twice now, I'd say it's definitely suitable for a new player, being neither too diificult or subtle.
I'm starting a new group here at school and one of my friends is excited to start playing for the first time, the other two members have had experience with D&D. Is it more advisable to play them through a campaign a bit more "traditional" in flavor and perhaps a little less difficult than the adventure path or is it better just to start them off with the good stuff? I haven't yet gotten the first adventure, so I'm not exactly sure about difficulty. What are your suggestions?
This one's got dungeon crawls, traps/puzzles, and all the elements you'd find in a traditional D&D adventure. There are multiple solutions to most problems, and no time clock pushing the players (well, I guess if they took two months in game time that would be bad...)
So, I'd say go for it. If necessary, you can coach the new player along, but I'd advise that for any adventure.
After reading the first adventure (my preciousssss....), I would say give it to 'em as is. However, as he is a new player, I would certainly be prepared to drop more "Hints from God" that I would for veteran players.
Is the Savage Tide campaign too difficult or nuanced to use as a first campaign for a new player?
It depends. How old and how mature is your new player?
I was planing on running it for a group of 16&17 year old new players (my son and friends from school). They are just cutting up and acting like everything is a joke. I killed two characters (the cleric at -1 and the wizard at -4) on the second round at the blue nixie. The rest had to jump off and swim back to the pier.
I am going to run a hack-n-slash dungeon-crawl using the Undermountain map. Where I just throw equivalent level monsters at them.
If you have an experienced group and a mature new player, I would say it would be ok.
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I would say it depends on the type of group you have in terms of personality. The adventure itself is really well written and has everything you could want in a first level adventure. The down side, is that there are a few encounters that will TPK a group of first level characters unless they are smart about how they approach it or get very lucky with the dice. The first encounter on the Blue Nixie really stands out because of the sheer number of thugs. In all likelihood they will outnumber the PC's by 2-1 and their leader is a CR 2 himself. If they don't really think about tactics much beyond bumrushing the first enemy they see, they could easily be slaughtered at the beginning. The other one that stands out is the final encounter with the leader of the Lotus Dragons. She and her "pet" will make short work of the PC's if they don't fight smartly. With new players, they often just don't think of all the options they have in a battle, so you may have to drop them some hints if you want them to survive those encounters. Otherwise, I think this is the perfect adventure to kick off a campaign with new or experienced players. I really can't wait to see what the next 11 adventures will bring.
(A)s he is a new player, I would certainly be prepared to drop more "Hints from God" that I would for veteran players.
There is one puzzle in particular which seems to assume that the players are familiar with some standard D&D monsters. Nothing that hasn't been around since the 1st ed. AD&D Monster Manual, but I don't think that a group of entirely new players would be able to solve it without a Hint from God. (Fortunately, the scenario as written provides a vehicle for doing so.)
There is one puzzle in particular which seems to assume that the players are familiar with some standard D&D monsters. Nothing that hasn't been around since the 1st ed. AD&D Monster Manual, but I don't think that a group of entirely new players would be able to solve it without a Hint from God. (Fortunately, the scenario as written provides a vehicle for doing so.)
I actually won't be letting players use OOC knowledge to solve this one...they'll need ranks in appropriate Knowledge skills or must consult an expert...
I actually won't be letting players use OOC knowledge to solve this one...they'll need ranks in appropriate Knowledge skills or must consult an expert...
Interesting.
My concern with Knowledge checks as the only solution is that if they fail, well ... what then? (Really, this is a general problem with any single die roll that, if failed, blocks the scenario.)
Consulting an expert would be a good idea; my only concern with that is that they may not even know the right question to ask, but if they pay a bit of attention, they should figure it out.
There is only one problem with making the players rely on their knowledge checks to know about the creatures in the puzzle: one of the creatures is a cyclops. And to my knowledge, there has never been a 3rd Ed. or 3.5 cyclops. It seems incredible that they've never included such an iconic, mythic creature but I've never seen it. So I'm not sure how characters will know how many eyes a cyclops has.
The goal for me as a DM will be to get the players to figure out the probable/possible solution to the puzzle (that'll get them half the XP). If they cannot then (in character) determine the answer via Knowledge checks and they don't think of it first (this'll get them the rest of the XP), their patron will suggest the expert help. This could come from any number of sources (i.e. anyone with experience fighting/tracking odd creatures out in the wilds--and there's lots of that type in Sasserine).
As for the cyclops, that one (for me at least) clearly falls under the Giant type (and so to Knowledge: nature). I've got stats for a 3e cyclops somewhere...
EDIT: And sorry James, we're somewhat hijacking your thread. Further discussion can move to a new post...
Thanks for the advice. I'm playing with folks from age 21 to 23, but that really doesn't mean much in regards to play style. We do tend to joke around plenty as it is. From what you've said, it looks like I will try it out. Our first timer is very anxious to play actual pen and paper D&D and as soon as we get the scheduling crud done, we should be able to make her dream come true. Thanks!