Okay, so we’ve seen all the elf lovers and haters out there giving they’re views. But one thing is sure; Elves, be they drow or other, are far more supported by products than Dwarves.
My question is why? What’s wrong with Dwarves? Surely there is a lot of potential to expand the Dwarven universe if it’s been left alone all this time. Is it time we saw a decent Dwarf product that pays homage to this great race?
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Absolutely! More Dwarves! Let the Bearded Ones rise to prominence at last.
Just off the top of my head, they could do a nice FR product covering all the major dwarven kingdoms: Mithril Hall, Citadels Adbar and Felbar, etc. The history of the dwarven race could be covered, and the social/economic/political effects of the Thunder Blessing.
They could do something similar for all the worlds.
And they could write some Dwarf-oriented adventures.
Dwarves are deffinately an awesome race- in all the bashing of elves and the remake of hobbits to modern halflings, I've never heard dwarves bashed. Gnomes even get their due amount of resentment from some, but dwarves? They seem to be universally loved.
I think some of it comes from their personality. An elf is likey to stand on a hill before charging, pointing off dramatically towards his foe with his sword, and proclaim that the strength of the elves will prevail, blah, blah, blah.
Meanwhile, the dwarf says, "shut the hell up and kill the damned thing," runs down, chops them to little bits, and laughs, then goes and gets piss drunk. The next day, he does it all again. :)
They're also so damned resistant to everything that it's almost comical. They're the type of guy tha will sit there and take punishment all day and say, "Is that the best you've got?"
They're short, but as physically strong as anyone but orcs (and other things like them). They don't have all the fancy fluff of elves. They're just there, take em' or leave em', but expect your rear handed to you either way.
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A little off topic, but the previous post about being the only dwarf in a group of other races reminded me of something amusing. I am currently playing in a 'The worlds largest dungeon' game. It was basically decided that it was mostly going to be a screw around game where we could try out the unusual classes we wanted to and the like, since the high rate of PC attrition in the dungeon would assure that we would get our chance.
We have only been playing for a short time so we still all have our original characters somehow. The party consists of two monks(a dwarf and a human) and a favored soul(an elf). We were joking around and had pretty much decided that the human and the elf were refugees/orphans who were raised by the dwarf's family in dwarven society and he was their 'big brother'. We even went so far as to declare that we were all followers of moradin, and yes we have an elven favored soul of moradin in the party.
Anyhow, the party fought off some fiendish creature or another(I think it was rats, literally fiendish ones), and we came across a cowering orc who just groveled at our feet. The dwarf sighed a bit and led the orc back to where we had encountered some others and let him join with the rest of his men. The dwarf even tried to go so far as to speak to the orc on the way back.
As soon as the orc was out of earshot the other two characters had to start giving him a hard time of course, culminating with the elf pointing out how 'elfish' he was acting. The line was delivered perfectly with the player keeping a straight face the whole time. Its going to be one of those games thats remembered for a long time to come.
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Actually, there's nothing more fun than being the only dwarf in a party chock fulla elves and half elves and a hobbit ninja; like 6 fauncy elfoids and 1 grunjy battle-axe wielding dwarf.
That's why I can't actually HATE elves, they offer too much dimetrical opposition potential to hate on them.
In our Age of Worms campaing, I am the only dwarf in a party of humans. We are using the optional Gestalt rules, and my dwarf is a Fighter-Cleric (of Moradin). Needless to say, he is the very definition of "tank".
I love dwarves!! They're my favorit race to play.
As a DM, I'm currently running the Age of Worms (the PCs will be entering the lizardfolk lair next session), but have already informed my players that my next campaign will be an all dwarven campaign called Torazduum (wich is the name of a deep dwarven citadel in my hombrewed campaign setting [Atara]).
However, I also just preordered Monte Cook's Ptolus Campaign Setting. So I may try runnning an all dwarven campaign with that instead.
As far as books covering dwarves go, I would recomend Races of Stone (WotC), Quintessential Dwarf (Mongoose), and Hammer and Helm (Green Ronin). All three are full of dwarven goodness.
It does seem rather unfair that elves get so much good lore about being the greatest, the creators, the masters, etc. Dwarves are recognized for their skills, but compared to elves, it's barely a nod of the head. I think I'm going to start working up dwarves in my homebrew to have the same amount of hype and grandeur as the elves... they deffinately deserve it! Ideas and thoughts would be welcome.
Well, it's that whole "dwarves keep to themselves and don't advertise" thing. Of course we don't hear about them as much, they're down in mines all the live-long day!
-The Gneech
Dwarves can tote something no other race can, they have kingdoms that have survived and existed longer than any of the other races. The elves are forced to relocate every few 1000 years, the humans are new to the lands, the halflings and gnomes live with or near one of the greater races to survive. But, the dwarves survive strong and ignored in the underground kingdoms, and if they do fall the dwarves have the guts to come back and clean up.
Okay, so we’ve seen all the elf lovers and haters out there giving they’re views. But one thing is sure; Elves, be they drow or other, are far more supported by products than Dwarves.
My question is why? What’s wrong with Dwarves? Surely there is a lot of potential to expand the Dwarven universe if it’s been left alone all this time. Is it time we saw a decent Dwarf product that pays homage to this great race?
I think it's a looks issue. My first character was an ugly dwarven fighter who never got a chance to hook up. I can think of hungry monsters that didn't wanna eat him.
This is why I'm opening Stoutman's Niptuck facilities all around Oerth and the Realms. We plait hair and offer a wide variety of beard extensions and dye jobs. We can staple the cheeks so any dwarf can bear a permanent cheery grin to win friends. We also employ a specialized rack device guaranteed to add six inches to height. Best yet, our head surgeon is just a brilliant goblin who so loves to cut dwarves' faces apart, he's actually paying US to operate!
Remind me to tell you later about Thunk, our dwarven cologne line. Thunk actually nullifies the smell of rocks and dirt and replaces it with the hearty smell of fresh baked biscuits. Even WOTC can't deny further product line to a race that smells like biscuits.
Thunk actually nullifies the smell of rocks and dirt and replaces it with the hearty smell of fresh baked biscuits. Even WOTC can't deny further product line to a race that smells like biscuits.
*spews water all over the monitor from laughing so hard*
-The Gneech
I like dwarves, as a race. I don't like their fit in the world, although their flaes are less galing than those of elves. They have a lifespan skills issue - but not nearly that of elves. But with all of their skill (it seems to me) there are still a limited number of super hip dwarven weapons, armor, items, architectural and engineering marvels, etc. As with elves I don't think enough time is spent figuring how this race fits into a functioning world or thinking throuhg what their culture would be like. or for that matter were their food and water come from.
That said the fluff and crunch seem to match much better than that of elves.
I think the absense of love is largely because littel time is spent (at least in the fiction I've read - which is far from exhaustive) in dwarven lands, the mines of Moria is the only example that come readily to mind and those were no longer a living dwarven community.
Thats good and bad - there is none (or at least less) of the baggage that accompanies elves, but there is also less of the imagery.
I think dwarves deserve more attention - and encourage those so inclined to write the stories to create the imagery.
I've played the Dwarf since Golden Axe. And will continue to do so, quite happily, for the rest of my life.
DWARVES FOREVER! Or at least 350 years...
;P
Peace,
tfad
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Thunk actually nullifies the smell of rocks and dirt and replaces it with the hearty smell of fresh baked biscuits. Even WOTC can't deny further product line to a race that smells like biscuits.*spews water all over the monitor from laughing so hard*
-The Gneech
Maybe gucci over-the-shoulder beard bags...to keep their beards from getting singed whilst they work at the smithy.
Nothing more manly (or dwarfly) than a dwarven beardpurse!
I think the absense of love is largely because littel time is spent (at least in the fiction I've read - which is far from exhaustive) in dwarven lands, the mines of Moria is the only example that come readily to mind and those were no longer a living dwarven community.
Aye there's the rub--or at least half of it. (Though the whole journey to return the king under the mountain is too good to ignore). Since Tolkein decided they were grumpy bearded folk who do not have enough children to maintain the race, they do not get the attention, as say warm scholars whose eyes contain the universe. (remember Gimli explaining the myth of no dwarven women?:) The other half of it is sex.
Face it sex sells (even when the currency is gp). Which would you rather put on the cover of Vogue: a stocky bearded (male or female :) dwarf in armor or a lithe, effeminate (male or female :) elf in scantily flowing robes? And since you get paid more when your story is on the cover which will you write about?
First of all, not all dwarven women necessarily have beards. The ones in my campaign world don't. And many of the minis I come across of dwarven women are also absent of beards.
Second, whats not sexy about dwarves? Geeze!
The tough corded muscles with sweat glistening from hammering stone and metal all day. The burly callused hands gripping the shaft of an axe or hammer.
Or how 'bout those stout wholesome female dwarves, eh? Their short stature and broad sexy bodies just cry out with warmth and tenderness with a subtle hint that they could crush the living daylights out of their enemies.
First of all, not all dwarven women necessarily have beards. The ones in my campaign world don't. And many of the minis I come across of dwarven women are also absent of beards.
Second, whats not sexy about dwarves?
Her bald shin. Dwarf beards are sexy, especially on dwarven women. Baaah who wants a dwarven women with out a nice groomed beard to stroke and kiss. You can let the Gnomes keep thier bald chin women.
A women dwarf with out a beard is just plain wierd.
I like dwarves. I used to have a good dwarf supplement book. I will have to find it and let you all know what it is. I have not seen it in a while.
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Second, whats not sexy about dwarves? Geeze!
The tough corded muscles with sweat glistening from hammering stone and metal all day. The burly callused hands gripping the shaft of an axe or hammer.Or how 'bout those stout wholesome female dwarves, eh? Their short stature and broad sexy bodies just cry out with warmth and tenderness with a subtle hint that they could crush the living daylights out of their enemies.
I think I feel ill.
I think the absense of love is largely because littel time is spent (at least in the fiction I've read - which is far from exhaustive) in dwarven lands, the mines of Moria is the only example that come readily to mind and those were no longer a living dwarven community.
I take it you haven't spent much time reading DragonLnace? It's the only brand of D&D literature I can stomach, typically, and I think that 1/5 of it (the stuff actually done by Weis, Hickman, and a select other few) is actually pretty good. There's actually a surprisingly large amount of info to be picked up there about some dwarven culture; at least, more than I've seen in many other books.
And I know that many people here consider MMORPGs to be horrid, but World of Warcraft actually has a huge dwarven influence to it. The towns and cities of Ironforge and Khaz Modan have really given me a ton to work with when I DM. The trick to MMORPGs is liberal use of the "ignore list." :)
I will say this . . . in the ancient days of the Realms, Faerun was ruled by giants and dragons. The elves overthrew the dragons, and hints about this event are in lots of places. The dwarves overthrew the giants, but its hardly mentioned anywhere. Then again, they likely overthrew the giants with hard work and lots of axes, not by . . . well, without giving anything away for the Year of Rogue Dragons . . . without using magic.
I will say this . . . in the ancient days of the Realms, Faerun was ruled by giants and dragons. The elves overthrew the dragons, and hints about this event are in lots of places. The dwarves overthrew the giants, but its hardly mentioned anywhere. Then again, they likely overthrew the giants with hard work and lots of axes, not by . . . well, without giving anything away for the Year of Rogue Dragons . . . without using magic.
It would make sense that magic laid low the often sorcerous dragons, and that brute force dispatched the towering brutes. By these fight fire with fire rules, the race of The Jades will be slain by gibbering mouthers.
Okay, so we’ve seen all the elf lovers and haters out there giving they’re views. But one thing is sure; Elves, be they drow or other, are far more supported by products than Dwarves.
My question is why? What’s wrong with Dwarves? Surely there is a lot of potential to expand the Dwarven universe if it’s been left alone all this time. Is it time we saw a decent Dwarf product that pays homage to this great race?
I think it's a looks issue. My first character was an ugly dwarven fighter who never got a chance to hook up. I can think of hungry monsters that didn't wanna eat him.
This is why I'm opening Stoutman's Niptuck facilities all around Oerth and the Realms. We plait hair and offer a wide variety of beard extensions and dye jobs. We can staple the cheeks so any dwarf can bear a permanent cheery grin to win friends. We also employ a specialized rack device guaranteed to add six inches to height. Best yet, our head surgeon is just a brilliant goblin who so loves to cut dwarves' faces apart, he's actually paying US to operate!
Remind me to tell you later about Thunk, our dwarven cologne line. Thunk actually nullifies the smell of rocks and dirt and replaces it with the hearty smell of fresh baked biscuits. Even WOTC can't deny further product line to a race that smells like biscuits.
BEARD EXTENSIONS?!?!? ::dies laughing::
But also, someone earlier said something of sexy dwarven females- I've seen a few! I forget who the artist was, but I think it was for some card game or the other that had a dwarven supplement. The dwarven women there were short and somewhat thick, but had hips and chest to define their femininity and long, flowing hair(from their head, not their chin). It's how I picture dwarven women in my homegrown campaign setting, anyway...
The dwarven women there were short and somewhat thick, but had hips and chest to define their femininity and long, flowing hair(from their head, not their chin). It's how I picture dwarven women in my homegrown campaign setting, anyway...
That how I picture them too... in my dreams...
::eyelids flutter::
I'm seeing a calender here. Really. D&D demihumans in various states of scandily clad repose. Watching a dwarf in a cheesecake volleyball pose by the shores of an underground lake? An elf maiden so skinny she's struggling to maintain a smile whilst not falling through the net lattice of her hammock? A half-orc temptress with limitless confidence in frilly lingerie, wearing pornstar make-up and turned to show us the girly tattoo on the samsonite luggage that is the skin of her lower back?
Mmm...
I will say this . . . in the ancient days of the Realms, Faerun was ruled by giants and dragons. The elves overthrew the dragons, and hints about this event are in lots of places. The dwarves overthrew the giants, but its hardly mentioned anywhere. Then again, they likely overthrew the giants with hard work and lots of axes, not by . . . well, without giving anything away for the Year of Rogue Dragons . . . without using magic.
Strange, IMC the dwarves drove off the dragons. Elves were summoned from another world to aid them. The dwarves have distanced themselves from other races as they attempt to put together their fractured civilization. I use this to explain the cultural fixation with ancestry.
Guess I'm not alone in having Scottish dwarves. I love the image of kilt-wearing, bagpipe-blaring, axe-wielding hordes swarming down the mountainside, howling with bloodlust.
I've been wanting to play a dwarven fighter who sings 'The Spicy McHaggis Jig' in combat....
On the subject of dwarven women, there's a stunning dwarfess on page 11 of 'Lords of Madness'. She looks like a dwarf, anyway.
From Reehold DM. The dwarven women there were short and somewhat thick, but had hips and chest to define their femininity and long, flowing hair(from their head, not their chin). It's how I picture dwarven women in my homegrown campaign setting, anyway...
A fine description of a beautiful dwarf women, except she needs a beard! Any sexy dwarf has a beard. Thier is nothing more ugly than a beardless chin. Like those elven waifs no breasts, no hips and no beards, ughhh.
This thread has taken a turn for the disturbing.
This thread has taken a turn for the disturbing.
Ain't the internet grand?
The thread is about Dwarves needing lovin', after all.
But many dig them zaftig dames
Who hail from yonder Glitterhame
Though needing pumps their hairy rumps
Ensure a traction for your shame
And though they’re more than monthly gruff
And bench your weight plus other stuff
There is none better, go on let her
Pry your jewel from shadowed rough
Let me apologize in advance for the following limerick. Poetry is not my strong suit, by any means.
The elves are far too flighty and thin
and demons are nothing but sin
But I swear on my ale
my love cannot fail
For a lass with hair on her chin
Edit out that apology and let's keep this train a runnin' ;)
And when I said they needed pumps I meant lifts in the sandals, of course.
OOOOOOOOF COURSE.
Edit out that apology and let's keep this train a runnin' ;)
And when I said they needed pumps I meant lifts in the sandals, of course.
OOOOOOOOF COURSE.
In the immortal words of Gimli, son of Gloin:
"Here's to swimmin' with little, hairy women!"
Let me apologize in advance for the following limerick. Poetry is not my strong suit, by any means.
The elves are far too flighty and thin
and demons are nothing but sin
But I swear on my ale
my love cannot fail
For a lass with hair on her chin
Lol...Thats really good.
They're also a good model for being LG without being a jerk or a priss.
Amen brother thats why I like dwarves
The dwarven women there were short and somewhat thick, but had hips and chest to define their femininity and long, flowing hair(from their head, not their chin). It's how I picture dwarven women in my homegrown campaign setting, anyway...That how I picture them too... in my dreams...
::eyelids flutter::
... A half-orc temptress with limitless confidence in frilly lingerie, wearing pornstar make-up and turned to show us the girly tattoo on the samsonite luggage that is the skin of her lower back?
Mmm...
Thats a picture I have to see. Not that I find it appealling. But like a train wreck I just got to see.
I'm seeing a calendar here. Really. D&D demihumans in various states of scandily clad repose. Watching a dwarf in a cheesecake volleyball pose by the shores of an underground lake? An elf maiden so skinny she's struggling to maintain a smile whilst not falling through the net lattice of her hammock? A half-orc temptress with limitless confidence in frilly lingerie, wearing pornstar make-up and turned to show us the girly tattoo on the samsonite luggage that is the skin of her lower back?
Mmm...
I'm tempted to do that...:D
Let me apologize in advance for the following limerick. Poetry is not my strong suit, by any means.
The elves are far too flighty and thin
and demons are nothing but sin
But I swear on my ale
my love cannot fail
For a lass with hair on her chin
you capture my sentement on dwarven women in a lymric. Cool
Edit out that apology and let's keep this train a runnin' ;)
And when I said they needed pumps I meant lifts in the sandals, of course.
OOOOOOOOF COURSE.
In the immortal words of Gimli, son of Gloin:
"Here's to swimmin' with little, hairy women!"
Gimli knows what sexy for a dwarf. After all he is a dwarf
This thread has taken a turn for the disturbing.
You play D&D.., your disturbed accept it.
The elves are far too flighty and thin
and demons are nothing but sin
But I swear on my ale
my love cannot fail
For a lass with hair on her chinyou capture my sentement on dwarven women in a lymric. Cool
Thank you for the compliment. You as well, Mr. Mac Donald.
The White Toymaker noted on the 'waking up from sleeping in D&D' thread, "Dwarves are notoriously sound sleepers."
Of course they are. Dwarves work for a living!
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Sadly, my own dwarf, whom I had mentioned earlier in this thread, is no longer among the living. He got eaten by an owlbear yesterday in our AoW campaign (Whispering Cairn).
Thanks for the laughs with this thread. It drowns out my sorrow at having to roll up a new character.
A dwarven what?
Me own dwarf be named Drigan Stonekey or "Stonekey" to his partners. Married to a fine dwarven lass of the name Holly. Hair red as a forge's flame. Eyes of an emerald sheen. Sturdy as the mountain stone with a smile to make an anvil blush. And in the spirit of the 3.5 dwarves, no beard.
Drigan is a rogue/fighter who is not sneaky, particularly nimble or good at climbing. He is a locksmith, not some damn, larcenous thief!
FH
Sadly, my own dwarf, whom I had mentioned earlier in this thread, is no longer among the living. He got eaten by an owlbear yesterday in our AoW campaign (Whispering Cairn).
Thanks for the laughs with this thread. It drowns out my sorrow at having to roll up a new character.
A dwarven what?
Me own dwarf be named Drigan Stonekey or "Stonekey" to his partners. Married to a fine dwarven lass of the name Holly. Hair red as a forge's flame. Eyes of an emerald sheen. Sturdy as the mountain stone with a smile to make an anvil blush. And in the spirit of the 3.5 dwarves, no beard.
Drigan is a rogue/fighter who is not sneaky, particularly nimble or good at climbing. He is a locksmith, not some damn, larcenous thief!
FH
He's a typical dwarf then.
I want dwarves who love rothe milk more than fine ale, who would rather play a good game of dragon chess than swing a dwarven waraxe at some ogre's knee, who love the open skies and the forests as much as the grottos and caverns of their homeland, who appreciate a fine woven tapestry as much as a marvelous suit of armor, who cry at funerals and like to sing songs about puppy dogs.
What the hell have I just said!? Give me blood and battle and wine and song any day!
Why are dwarves so dwarven and elves so elven? Why do roleplayers and people in general reduce every other race to a couple of pathetic sterotypes, whether they are dwarves or elves or klingons and vulcans? Am I alone in thinking all this dwarven back slapping and elf bashing is a waste of time and resources better spent planning good adventures? Come to think of it I have stuff to do!
You've got a point there, a lot of the bad things about DnD races (Roleplaying wise) arise from the their stereotypes. That said, dwarves are pretty damn nifty fellows and can be very fun characters. I don't play them however, due to my preferance for light armour and high Dexte... sorry, I just had a kickass idea for a dwarven swashbuckler that I am so using next time I have to roll up a character, got to go write it down.
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A dwarven what?
Me own dwarf be named Drigan Stonekey or "Stonekey" to his partners. Drigan is a rogue/fighter who is not sneaky, particularly nimble or good at climbing. He is a locksmith, not some damn, larcenous thief!
FH
Me dwarf was named Durin Stonehammer. He was a Fighter-Cleric o' Moradin (gestalt rules). He wielded a mighty dwarven Waraxe in battle, and almost single-handedly killed many of the parties opponents (until that last one...friggin owlbear...friggin improved grapple). And he had ranks in Profession (Brewing) so that he could make his own holy water.