Any spell that requires an attack roll, deals hp damage, and threatens criticals can be used to sneak with the standard range of 30'. Essentially, any ray spell that deals damage (scorching ray, orb of force, ray of frost, disintegrate, polar ray, searing light, etc.) can be used this way. A straight rogue could use a wand of scorching ray and deal sneaks from 30' away. As I mentioned in another thread, the rogue/sor/arcane trickster makes this combo especially deadly with impromptu sneak attack.
I'm not sure where it's written. Maybe it's a house rule and I don't even know it.
|
I could have sworn I read somewhere that Rogue/Wizard multi-classers got to apply their sneak attack bonus to their spell damage, but I cannot find the statement anywhere in the rules now. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, where I might have read it?
Thanks in advance.
It wasn't first written there (maybe in a Sage Advice column?) but it is clarified in the Complete Arcane that any spell that requires a To Hit roll will deal sneak attack damage.
Thanks all. My Rogue/Necromancer just got a little more powerful. That's a good thing. Our three character party is gonna get its stuff kicked in at some point if we don't get better faster.
Thus proving once again that the rogue/fighter..rogue/wizard..
rogue/sorcerer or rogue/ranger are the 4 best class combos in the game.
I always am unsure whether to stop at rogue 2 or go to 3 just to get a few more skill points and that extra die of sneak dam.
Thanks all. My Rogue/Necromancer just got a little more powerful. That's a good thing. Our three character party is gonna get its stuff kicked in at some point if we don't get better faster.Thus proving once again that the rogue/fighter..rogue/wizard..
rogue/sorcerer or rogue/ranger are the 4 best class combos in the game.
I always am unsure whether to stop at rogue 2 or go to 3 just to get a few more skill points and that extra die of sneak dam.
always level 3, the damage and skill bonuses far outway the extra whatever from other classes.
Is it really better to have 2d6 sneak attack damage, evasion, and some skills, than to have three more levels of whatever spellcaster with the added spells available and added damage per spell?
I dont think so, but most of you all play more often than I do.
Is it really better to have 2d6 sneak attack damage, evasion, and some skills, than to have three more levels of whatever spellcaster with the added spells available and added damage per spell?
I dont think so, but most of you all play more often than I do.
Well, the main thing is the versatility. No point having a sorcerer with 18 char and not having a decent diplomacy or intimidate skill.
always start as 1st lvl rogue for a few more hp, (8+int bonus)*4 as opposed to (2+int bonus)*4..
I like campaigns with a mix of lair bashing and social interaction so given the choice I always like to have lots of social skill points..
as for evasion..well, all I can say is that if low Hp as a wizard or sorcer, being able to avoid all dam or reduce it in half is a godsend when a fireball is thrown at you.
|
|
I took 3rd level rogue for the exact reasons listed above. I let the other two characters in the party choose their class first, and found that we had neither an arcane spellcatser, nor a rogue when it was my turn to create a character. Thus the class mix. I don't plan on taking another level of rogue unless I start failing my DD & OL skill checks consistently.
Evasion and the higher Reflex save already saved my butt once. A certain Blue Dragon in a certain moathouse tried to turn me into fried guy. Three rounds later he was the one lying dead in the coutyard, and I was unscathed. Somehow, I don't think my 16 hp would have stood up to even 1/2 damage.
I assume you have your eyes on the Arcane Trickster prestige class, Luke?
Crust's post above was the first time I heard the term. Where can I find out more about this prestige class? It sounds like it may be up my alley!
Arcane Trickster is in the DMG.
|
|
Oops.
I guess it was new to 3.5? I thought I was familiar with all the prestige classes in the DMG, but I guess I was wrong. (I should be, I'm the DM in our AOW compaign!) I'll have to look that one over when I get home tonight.
The one thing I'd worry about up front is further delaying my progression through Wizard levels. My character is already lagging behind, and I'm worried that we're going to get to situations where the combat is balanced for a significantly higher wizard than I am. Hopefully that prestige class lets you progress with your spells? I suppose if it's one of those that you really only need a couple of levels in to get the real bang-for-buck, then it wouldn't be too bad.
|
|
Holy Frijoles!
Arcane Trickster is the greatest thing since sliced bread. And I thought Shadow Dancer was cool.
So I give up my Wizard Meta-magics but otherwise it's like taking Wizard, with more skill points. Sneak attack stacks with rogue's. Long-distance skill use. Impromptu sneak attack almost seems unfair. I'll have to take a few more levels of Rogue to get my Escape Artist and Decipher Script up to snuff.
Sure wish I'd looked at this before spending all those ranks on other stuff.
The Meteor Swarm sounds nice, but my character's an evil jerk and is going to die way before I get there. Oh well, maybe I'll need to roll up another character some time soon. The way we pick needless fights, it's bound to happen sooner or later!
Decipher Script is a good skill, IMO (I really like the idea presented in... Complete Adventurer, was it?... of using it to create your own cipher/secret code), but you can probably forgoe Escape Artist if you make sure to have a handy Freedom of Movement spell. Is this a perfect solution? No, but it'll save you some points. You can even get goggles or something with comprehend languages to cover most Decipher Script issues.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
|
It wasn't first written there (maybe in a Sage Advice column?) but it is clarified in the Complete Arcane that any spell that requires a To Hit roll will deal sneak attack damage.
Sort of - any spell that requires a hit roll and does damage. This does include spells like enervate, but not spells like ray of enfeeblement (which actually applies a penalty, rather than causing damage). Spells that cause ability damage, drain, or negative levels just cause hp damage, not extra ability damage or levels. This is explained on pages 85 and 86 of Complete Arcane. A critical section is on page 85, which explains that a weaponlike spell is any spell that required an attack roll _and deals damage_ (emphasis mine). Damage is then defined as normal hit point damage, nonlethal damage, ability damage, or energy drain. By the way, such spells can also crit.
Also, you can't apply more than one set of sneak dice per casting, so if you cast a scorching ray, you get the extra damage once.
Russ
|
|
Decipher Script is a good skill, IMO (I really like the idea presented in... Complete Adventurer, was it?... of using it to create your own cipher/secret code), but you can probably forgoe Escape Artist if you make sure to have a handy Freedom of Movement spell. Is this a perfect solution? No, but it'll save you some points. You can even get goggles or something with comprehend languages to cover most Decipher Script issues.
The way I read the entry last night, 7 ranks of Decipher Script and Escape Artist are prereqs to taking Arcane Trickster. Not knowing that ahead of time, I've not set my character up to take this prestige class.
You have to be nearly epic level to pull it off, but the fact that you can sneak attack with meteor swarm is undeniably awesome.
Quick question, is the range on the radius of meter swarm a 40ft burst? I thought that it was but my book isn't here. And if it is... you have to be within 30 ft to sneak attack....
The way I read the entry last night, 7 ranks of Decipher Script and Escape Artist are prereqs to taking Arcane Trickster. Not knowing that ahead of time, I've not set my character up to take this prestige class.
Doh! My bad. I wasn't thinking about the entry requirements when I typed my reply.
There are a couple options that I can think of that'll help you out:
First, of course, is the PH2 coming out with the rules for reworking your character. You and your DM might want to check that out.
Second is the power Psychic Reformation. If psionics exists in the campaign, see if your DM will let you track down a psion with this power. It'll let you redistribute your skill points at a cost of 25xp per level you 'go back'. The downside is that the psion pays an equal amount, so it'll cost you a fairly sizeable wad of cash. Still worthwhile if you're set on limiting how much casting power you give up to take the class.