Could somneone help me out here... I recall an issue of Dungeon that had a prestige class that allowed for someone to play an "atheist." This character would get bonuses against divine magic, etc. Can anyone offer some help?
Could somneone help me out here... I recall an issue of Dungeon that had a prestige class that allowed for someone to play an "atheist." This character would get bonuses against divine magic, etc. Can anyone offer some help?
Sorry to not recall the issue but the class is provocative. How could one disbelieve in deific power when such power is quite commonly weilded by the god's chosen to great effect in the fantasy realms?
"Wish I had a sammich."
"Worry not! By the power of St. Cuthbert! A revenge hoagie will appear forthwith to sustain thee!"
(poof--followed by the materialization of a retributive sammich)
Then again, I'm sure the author covered their bases. You've got me curious though. I'll be waiting for the issue number as well.
Well I don't know about Dungeon or Dragon but if you have the Planar handbook there's the Defiant (member of Sigil's Athar faction) or if you have Complete Divine there's the Ur-priest (I believe this PrC can be found in other sources too).
Well I don't know about Dungeon or Dragon but if you have the Planar handbook there's the Defiant (member of Sigil's Athar faction) or if you have Complete Divine there's the Ur-priest (I believe this PrC can be found in other sources too).
True. I'd been planning to mention the Defiant, but you beat me to it. The Ur-Priest's flavor isn't actually atheistic, though. They steal power from the gods, which would seem to me to imply that they acknowledge a god's existence.
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Revenge Hoagie... that's just too awesome. One of my friend's was telling me horror stories about animated undead sandwiches the other day, and then we started speculating about animated Martinis with Holly Berry Bomb style olives that also functioned as eyes.
Hmm, I havent heard of an atheist class, but I have seen in several games a non believer class that absolutely does not believe in magic and causes a non magic area which surrounds them.
I remember what you're talking about. I'm pretty sure it was a 3.0 article, and I alas do not have those Mags with me, but I suspect it might been in #287's Factions article, which I suspect may be the basis for the class in the Planer Handbook.
Actually the Planar Factions article was what I was remembering. A prestige class that does not belive that the gods hold any power and so receive bonuses against divine spells and magic, etc.
I do believe that it's a cop out that they cast spells from a DIFFERENT divine power. But I guess it's some kind of issue with trying to keep the whole "healing magic math." To keep the d20 balance.
hmm; sounds both the same and different from the class that is a divine spell thief; some kind of cleric that worships no god; thinks they are all bad; and steals magical power from them, but not the same one very often; I dont remember the class name and dont have my book handy.
Sounds about right, The Koga's advise.
If you want to play an athiest spellcaster, play a psionic.
If you want to play an athiest paladin, play a fighter.
If you want to play an athiest druid, eh, screw it. Druids are broken anyway. XP
I'm not looking to remove the gods, divine magic, or even divine healing. Besides, there are bards that can cast cure spells and create corresponding potions in an "arcane" sense.
I'm looking for a bad-a$$ that can shrug off anything that the cleric can throw at them and shake their faith.
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This is slightly off-topic, but for a while, I got fed up with the players who consistently created CN characters, simply so they could be obnoxious badasses, who wouldn't take no crap from nobody, and went around insulting, belittling and/or ignoring any character with a noble, and/or holy outlook (often dragging their real-world 'baggage' into the game), yet, when the chips were down, would whinge and whine for healing and protection from these same characters.
If they were refused, they would kick up a stink, and bleat that the other player 'wasn't playing their character properly', and that they had a 'duty' to expend precious resources on ungrateful, selfish, immature, munchkin bedwetters, who would never dream of repaying the favour in a million years.
I got so sick of this, after a while, that I had it out with one player (who was the epitome of negative gamer-cliches), and flat-out refused him any beneficial spells unless he dropped the attitude. This caused him to go 'telling tales' to the DM, who he expected to step in and make me 'play nice' with his jerk-off loser PC.
However, the DM had also got sick of the jerk, since he inevitably contributed nothing to the success of any adventure, and had discussed with me ways to deal with the problem.
He backed me up that there were 'optional rules', hidden deep in the DMG, about spells only working on grateful believers, and that, rather than me being the one violating my alignment, HE was the one acting out of character, by insulting my faith one minute, then asking for my god's help the next.
This only slightly pacified him, so I resorted to the ace up my sleeve. I reminded him that (at least in 1st Ed.), a cleric was not guaranteed to be granted the spells he prayed for. I don't know if this made it into 3rd Ed., but in the old days the DM (in the NPC role of the god or his emissary) had the power of veto over a cleric character's spell choice each morning, and I told the jerk, that this also applied to a veto over how the spell ended up being used.
I told him I was afraid that, firstly, my spells would not work on him, and secondly, I may not be granted further spells at all if I were to waste them on a heretic who had spouted blasphemy against everything my god stood for.
Nevertheless, I would take this risk to my soul, if he apologised. One apology later (and with a wink to the DM, who knew what was coming), I pretended to cast a spell, and, lo and behold (said the DM), nothing happened. I feigned surprise,and 'tried again', but still nothing...
I recoiled in mock horror, refusing to continue, and the jerk had to go without.
In order to fuel the deception, I got the DM to agree that, on subsequent mornings, the deva who delivered my spells was quite happy to grant modified versions, that would only work on the trustworthy members of the party. This version of each spell gained a colourful suffix, so I memorised "Protection from Evil, 10' radius (for anyone who's not a dick)", Prayer (for anyone who's not a dick)", etc.
This way, I could clearly and openly cast spells that were aiding the rest of the party, while the jerk would be told he felt no benefit.
This reduced some of the more obnoxious rants from the jerk, and occasionally (if he had altered his tactics, so as to actually take part in the scenario), a cure might work on him, otherwise we kept this up for several months. He would still b#&@~ and moan that he was being done out of his 'fair share' by my 'mistake' of playing a good, upright character.
Eventually, he slipped back into his old ways, and having got totally fed up with him, and reasoning that I had given him every chance to see the light, I arranged for him to 'overhear' rumours of treasure, and be tricked into sneaking off to keep it all for himself (as was his normal tactic), not knowing it was a suicide mission to ensure the success of our mission. The DM agreed, that, having shown such incalcitrant and irredeemable behaviour, he was beyond saving, and that my god would agree with me that the annihalation of both him and several rooms-full of enemies was a win-win situation....
So to recap, you don't need atheist PCs, you just need cleric PCs to stick to their principles...
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Back to topic (ahem), I do find that there is little incentive to play a character with one of the 4 'extreme' alignments, rather than one of the 5 with a neutral element.
It would appear that doing so just leaves one open to all the negative effects of certain spells and abilities, while providing no appreciable benefits for one's dedication.
Eg, a LN character can wield a holy mace for full effect, and gain the benefits of Protection from Evil, yet be unaffected by opponents with unholy weapons or Protection from Good.
The same applies on the Law/Chaos axis, though as a rule, it is more common for players to identify the iconic 'goodies & baddies', than the iconic 'stuffies & wierdies'...
I tend to prefer playing LG, LN, and NG characters almost exclusively, and to associate with similar PCs, as I come to the game table to game, not waste half the session buggering around, chasing some feeble-minded d*+#&ead, with his pathetic attempts at 'role-playing' an obnoxious moron....DANGER! DANGER! THREADJACK ALERT!....(take the pills, breathe in, breathe out, thaaat's better...)
Yet, unless I play LG, I feel as if I'm somehow 'cheating' to get the benefit from a spell with an alignment descriptor that my character does not share.
I believe that, in accepting a spell or item effect, a character should become temporarily 'infused' with any associated alignment. In effect, becoming an avatar of that primal force. How much more evocative for a player to be told that he is swept up in the righteous fury of Heironeous, or have the blinding light of Pholtus burst from his eyes and mouth. Using an evil spell or item would always twist a character's outlook, regardless of whether the item was intelligent, drawing them deeper to the Dark Side...
Drawing an aligned item would cause the wielder to radiate that alignment (I feel a disturbance in the Force...), maybe making their use be avoided when stealth is required, only to be unveiled when dramatically appropriate (I may be younger than you, Dark Lord, but maybe you remember...this! I see you remember; it took your eye these ten years hence, did it not...?)
Better than just being given a bland list of bonuses, that the player stuffs down his greedy gullet, while badmouthing the god whose cleric just channeled the deity's essence through his ungrateful flesh.
This would mean that a character could not benefit from opposing effects (Prot from Good and Prot from Evil), and that enemies with such opposing protection would always affect (or suppress) one another, regardless of their usual alignment.
One could not wield a holy weapon in one hand and an unholy weapon in the other (or maybe only with a Use Magic Device roll, to 'dampen' one effect?)
Any thoughts?
Not sure if this is what you're remembering Timault, but the Silicon Sorcery article in Dragon #308 had 2 Epic Prestige classes based on Morrowind, one of which was based around worshipping the Gods of that world, the other around defying them. The names escape me for now however.
Could somneone help me out here... I recall an issue of Dungeon that had a prestige class that allowed for someone to play an "atheist." This character would get bonuses against divine magic, etc. Can anyone offer some help?
souns like the Ur-priest(CA) or the Athar(Planar Handbook). Ur-priests 'steal' their power from the gods and get bonuses v divine magic. I don't have either class in my PrC database, tho, so I can't give you more info.
There is a character who is not exactly a atheist, but an antithisis of magic and gets all kinds of bonuses from divine magic; it is in one of the planar books either the manual or the players guide; not sure the name as my friend owns it and I dont; but remember reading it. check this out; this may be what your looking for.
Mongoose's Quintessential Wizard has an atheist prestige class which provides multiple advantages for players with non-divine spell progression.
i prefer ur-priests to clerics anyday, but technically all divine guys(or crusader guys) are stupid.