The special ability for ghost step indicates that the ninja (Complete Adventurer) becomes invisible. It does not indicate that this invisibility goes away when the ninja attacks, as per the invisibility spell.
Does this effect last until the beginning of the ninja's next turn?
Or should I just make life easier, and rule that the ninja has no place in D&D?
NInja's don't make anything easy. I don't have the book in forn of me, but if invisibility is lost normally when one attacks, it would seem a ninja would be bound by the same rule sunless it states otherwise. I've never even really read the class extensively as I agree... NO NINJAS IN DnD! Unless you're in high school, where ninja's still rule.
The special ability for ghost step indicates that the ninja (Complete Adventurer) becomes invisible. It does not indicate that this invisibility goes away when the ninja attacks, as per the invisibility spell.
Does this effect last until the beginning of the ninja's next turn?
Or should I just make life easier, and rule that the ninja has no place in D&D?
*chasing mougoo through threads...*
A Ninja's ghost step ability resembles the Invisibility spell in all ways except duration; thus, if he attacks during his ghost step round, he "gives up his concealment" and becomes visible again.
Ninja's use this ability either to guarantee a sneak attack on their initial strike (and we all know that a good ninja only needs one, anyways...right?) or to make a smooth retreat after their engagement.
M
Marc Chin speaks the truth. :)
however, Vith does not ;)
Ninja's use this ability either to guarantee a sneak attack on their initial strike (and we all know that a good ninja only needs one, anyways...right?) or to make a smooth retreat after their engagement.
Or to escape the cannonfire as the PIRATES unleash hell. =)
(Edit: Yo ho ho. Rum. Bottle. You do the math.)
Hey, I'm just asking for rules clarification... I'm not defending any classes. And, just so I can prove I'm
1) not in middle school,
2) over the 1980s, and
3) all about the pirates,
my next PC will be aiming for the Dread Pirate PrC in Eberron--my DM is allowing "Dread Sky Pirate."
Now that I think about it, that would have really gotten me excited in the 1980s, too...
Ninja's use this ability either to guarantee a sneak attack on their initial strike (and we all know that a good ninja only needs one, anyways...right?)...
Trick question - there's no such thing as a good ninja. :D
Sorry, whats wrong with playing a Ninja?
Im in a Forgotten Realms setting and The party was in the East when I joined it so it felt only natural. Now the party is trying to figure out what the ..... I am. Makes for fun times!! And in Dragon 342 they just added some more feats for them!!
I'm not quite sure why anyone else might dislike the Ninja, but my personal distaste stems mostly from overuse.
"I'm sitting in a dark corner, staring out at the rest of the bar suspiciously, my left hand never straying too far from the handle of my katana. I'm wearing a black cloak that casts my face into shadows."
"So, you're exactly like your last character?"
"Nope! Shiro only had a 17 Dex, but Kuro has an 18!"
This is only the second game Ive ever been in so its a first for me with the class. I didnt want to do the fighter thing and Im not good enough for magic types, so I thought hmmm, how bout magic abilities!! And I remembered working on the 318 issue and walla!
We kinda lost our tank and our only rogue is a non-combatant Kobold (dont ask!!)
So I try to fill in as the rogue type that can get off a few good hits!!
A Ninja's ghost step ability resembles the Invisibility spell in all ways except duration; thus, if he attacks during his ghost step round, he "gives up his concealment" and becomes visible again.
I see that Mike McArtor (Associate Editor, Dragon Magazine) has given this conclusion his stamp of approval, and that's nice, but...I don't see anything in the Ghost Step description that would support Marc's claim that the ability "resembles the Invisibility spell in all ways except duration." The ability simply says that the ninja can "become invisible for 1 round."
"Invisible" is defined in the PHB glossary. There is no need to look to the spell for any explanation of how being invisible works. And nothing in the glossary definition suggests that an invisible creature "gives up his concealment" simply because he makes an attack.
Now, if the Ghost Step ability description referenced the invisibility spell in some way, I'd agree with Marc completely. But it doesn't. So barring some official errata, FAQ clarification, etc., I'd have to say that a ghost-stepping ninja can attack and remain invisible.
In the campain Im in the DM is running it as if it were a limited Invisibility spell.
I cant remember what the Complete Adventure actually states but if its like the one in Dragon 318 it dosn't refer to the spell, it just states that you become invisible! It is probable up to the discretion of your DM.
Are there any other publications that have other Feats/Skills usefull to a Ninja.
I saw the D318 and D342, the main book for them (which is very similar to D318) Complete Adventurer. Any other Dragon mag that has other usefull info, weopons, items ext?
My plan is to take him to the Prestige class of "Ninja Spy" in Orient Advent
A Ninja's ghost step ability resembles the Invisibility spell in all ways except duration; thus, if he attacks during his ghost step round, he "gives up his concealment" and becomes visible again.I see that Mike McArtor (Associate Editor, Dragon Magazine) has given this conclusion his stamp of approval, and that's nice, but...I don't see anything in the Ghost Step description that would support Marc's claim that the ability "resembles the Invisibility spell in all ways except duration." The ability simply says that the ninja can "become invisible for 1 round."
"Invisible" is defined in the PHB glossary. There is no need to look to the spell for any explanation of how being invisible works. And nothing in the glossary definition suggests that an invisible creature "gives up his concealment" simply because he makes an attack.
Now, if the Ghost Step ability description referenced the invisibility spell in some way, I'd agree with Marc completely. But it doesn't. So barring some official errata, FAQ clarification, etc., I'd have to say that a ghost-stepping ninja can attack and remain invisible.
I think your correct as far as the RAW is concerned. Ghost step makes you invisible for one round, nothing furtehr is mentioned. Both the FAQ and the erratta are silent on the issue so presumably its the intent of ghost step to allow you to attack and remain invisible.
Considering that the Ninja class is one of the weaker ones this won't unbalance anything.
Ninjas weilding katanas? This to me is like a wizard weilding a staff in one hand and a long sword in the other. Someone's been watching too much ninja turtles or something. Ninja, as I've read of them, would probably go out of their way to not cary anything that identifies them as something special (especialy the traditional weapon of the samurai, who if memory serves weren't overly fond of ninja). I see a ninja in D&D looking like nearly any other character, especialy rogues and fighters. Thier power depends on blending in and attacking (or whatever their mission calls for) without being seen.
As for the actual question, we run it like the spell, but I'd say a strict reading of the text lets you attack and stay invisible.
Nope no Katana!! Not proficient with it!!
I don't have him dressed up like a ninja, he is garbed in oriental atire.
Im trying to hide his class however the party is stating to get wise and ask "why cant a Oriental rogue sneak attack, he's flanking him!!" and "how did he go invisible?" From NPCs its easy but from the party its getting harder. Its only in combat that is comes up!!!
On the ninja overkill sentiment:
Allow me to say I was obsessed with ninjas as a kid; I lived in the age of TMNT and was a ninja every halloween. And I still love them.
So when playing a Spycraft game, I made a charcter who was a ninja, but his mystical abilities were all from technology or his class. It was a great game, often played at the FLGS I was a partner in. Alot of people knew about it.
About 2 months after we had started, there were 2 or 3 new Spycraft games going. And wouldn't you know it, each game had, no kidding, 2-3 ninja/tech type characters in it. In fact, when describing the fixer class, which my ninja was, the standard description was " a ninja with technology or something."
The point: It gets worn out REALLY fast.
Dwarfalope
Does your DM allow alt class abilities out of Unearthed Arcana? If so, you could hint at being a rogue with the fighter feats rather than sneak attack. Possibly explain the invisibility as a magic item, or one level in sorcerer with the dissapear spell (I don't remember what book it was out of, thinking something by Mulhavoc, but it turns you invisible for one or two rounds, first level spell).
No I dont think so. Any ways the party knows I use Sudden Strike (by name) and I dont know any other classes that use it by that name. There wise to it. Just cant say it in game. As far as the game is concerned I am an Oriental Rogue with certain feats and skill abilities.
Thanks for the help though.
To NPCs Im just a funny dressed Half-Elf!!
Heres a question for you....
I am going for the Ninja Spy prestige class in OA apon completion of regular class and some of the class feats are the same/similar, how do you deal with those(any stackable or changeable).
Examples:
Sudden strike to Sneak Attack
Poison Use Lvl 3, 9, then at Lvl 1 on NinjSpy
And finaly Great leap to Leap of clouds?
Theres also Ghost mind and then Slippery Mind (I understand the definitions of those two, one is for scrying and the other is for mind controlling effects)
I'll respond in more depth tonight, but here is what I've got for you right now...
Sudden strike and sneak attack stack when both prerequisites are met (at least I'm pretty sure they do). As in say you have two dice in sudden strike, and two dice in sneak attack, when flanking, you get only your two dice of sneak attack, but when you catch someone flat footed you get both dice of sneak attack and both dice of sudden strike. So I would say keep that as is, just say the Ninja Spy class gives you better knowledge of cutting throats and aiming for other vitals in combat.
As far as poison use, I'm not sure what the question is. My books are unavailable at the moment, so I can't reference. I'm guessing both classes give you poison use, but at different levels? If this is the case either gain the poison use at the earliest level and not gain anything when the other class gains the ability (in my opinion it is a very week ability, so it's no big loss), or possibly talk your DM into some small related bonus, like a +2 to craft poison.
The rest of the question I'll have to study for while gaming tonight, as I don't remember what any of those abilities do specificly, and I don't have time to look it up at the moment.
Oh yah, I think I remember seeing one other thing that has sudden strike (I might be thinking of the scout ability though, as there is a prestigue class which grants it), but I can't remember what it was. Might be something out of a third party book printed after Complete Adventurer, or I might just be completly on crack. If I spot it while going through my books tonight I'll try to remember to post it here.
Ok after having read through things, here is how I see it.
Suden Strike - Sneak Attack
On page 8 of Complete Adventurer it sais these abilities both stack when both are qualified for, so just like I said in my last post.
Poison Use
Far as I know there is no benefit for having two classes that give you the poison use ability, so unless you can work something out with your DM there isn't much to say about this. If I were your DM I would give you the bonus to Craft Poison I said in my last post.
Great Leap - Leap of the Clouds.
I don't have the Oriental book infront of me at the second, but if I remember right Leap of the Clouds just makes it so your jump isn't limited by your height. Add that with great leap and you can darn near fly, think Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.
Ghost Mind - Slippery Mind
Not sure what the question was here, but unless your using gestalt characters I think you would have to be fairly epic to get both these class abilities. Assuming you do get them both I don't think they would interact much considering the Scry spell isn't mind affecting (least I don't think it is) so slippery mind wouldn't apply, you'd just get the stuff from ghost mind.
Now on to the realy cool part, the fluff. Again, sense I don't have the book right infront of me I could easily have the wrong concept of the Ninja Spy is supposed to be, so keep that in mind.
I see the Ninja Spy as a very social character, using his/her ability to earn trust and put people at ease just as often if not more so than the traditional ninja abilities of sneaking about and climbing/jumping through the castle unnoticed. I would suggest lots of Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Sense Motive ranks. Depending on the type of campaign your finding yourself in feats that let you appear as something your not might be good as well. Walking arround in armor and carying a shield and long sword while masquerading as a city guardsmen is one thing, but your cover is easily blown if you don't know how to use any of that equipment and your sent to go defend a farmstead from some marauding hobgoblins. I know Complete Arcane had some feats that let you use a few cantrips once per day, and careful selection of these would let you pass yourself off as an apprentice wizard. Hiding and blending in are the strongest tools of the ninja, and this should rarely involve black clothes or a ghili suit (doubt I spelled that anywhere near right, but you'll either get what I'm talking about or you wont). Learn lots of languages, keep several styles of clothing handy, disquise kits are your friend, the party wizard who makes you a wand of alter self (high charisma meens good Use Magic Device, though I'm not sure if it's a class skill for the ninja) is your friend. When it does come time to strike, think the marine mottow, one shot, one kill. Hit your target from supprise and hit them HARD, then run the bloody hell away cuz d6s don't stand up to counter attacks well at all.
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I am going for the Ninja Spy prestige class in OA apon completion of regular class and some of the class feats are the same/similar, how do you deal with those(any stackable or changeable).
Examples:
Sudden strike to Sneak Attack
Poison Use Lvl 3, 9, then at Lvl 1 on NinjSpy
And finaly Great leap to Leap of clouds?
Leap of the clouds is an irrelevant ability in 3.5e, as height no longer limits jump for anyone. I don't recall if this was specifically addressed in the 3.5 update in Dragon; I don't think it was replaced with anything else if it was.
Good news: A ninja stays invisible until just before the beginning of his next turn, even if he makes an attack.Source: I have seen the future.
Wow. That's one heckuva crystal ball you've got there. =)
The future will become the present in 3-ish months. :)Aaaaahhh!!!! What does that mean??!!
Can you at least say how far away "the future" is?
Ha...Guess I'll just have to wait for the proof!!
Basically comes down to the DM's house rules till then! He's basically running it as if it was the Invisibility spell which mackes it more tactical playing!Hope all is going well,
Pat
Hey Mike! I think its been more than 3ish months since I wrote the blog about Ghost step and staying invisible. My current DM ruled that I can use all my attacks in the round but once its over I become visible, to beat this I use Etherial aspect of it at higher lvl & "Hide in plain sight", hide and move silent to get the Sudden and at least I have a 50% chance to get missed!
What was the proof you where talking about. Oh and I liked the Ninja alternates a bit ago. I am still useing normal but my buddy is using the Blinding light aspect for his!!
Hope all is well, Drop me a line
Later
Pat
Ninjas weilding katanas? Ninja, as I've read of them, would probably go out of their way to not cary anything that identifies them as something special (especialy the traditional weapon of the samurai, who if memory serves weren't overly fond of ninja).
Historically (Tokagawa Shogunate), anyone other than a bona-fide samurai was executed for carrying a katana. So a ninja in his normal Peter Parker life would have to make sure that his was hidden REALLY well, 'cause if someone found it he'd be beheaded. Of course, in his ninja pajamas he's probably liable for arrest anyway, so why not carry one? Well, they're pretty big and would likely get in the way when you're trying to scale walls or disguise yourself as a janitor or whatever. But in D&D, historical data of course has no relevance, and everyone can easily wield weapons that weight at least 6 times as much as they do (as we know from the artwork), so if you can get that exotic weapon proficiency, you're good to go.
For some reason I'm not that fond of the Ninja class. If I was planning on a Ninja type character, I would be more likely to go Rogue/Ghost-Faced Killer.
Hey Mike! I think its been more than 3ish months since I wrote the blog about Ghost step and staying invisible. My current DM ruled that I can use all my attacks in the round but once its over I become visible, to beat this I use Etherial aspect of it at higher lvl & "Hide in plain sight", hide and move silent to get the Sudden and at least I have a 50% chance to get missed!
What was the proof you where talking about. Oh and I liked the Ninja alternates a bit ago. I am still useing normal but my buddy is using the Blinding light aspect for his!!Hope all is well, Drop me a line
Later
Pat
The 'proof' is in the latest update of the 3.5 FAQ, page 21. It states that the invisibility lasts until the start of the ninja's next turn, regardless of whether they attack.
It might have appeared in an issue of Dragon under one of their columns in one of the last three issues, but I haven't been able to locate it.