maybe some one can help me. my group and I have a debate on whether the arcane spell failure from armor and shields affect clerics who cast divine spells. I myself say no it does not since clerics have proficiencies in all armors and most shields.
Seconded.
The core rules specifically state that spell failure is for Arcane magic only. One of the benefits of being a cleric, and most divine casters, is that you do not use this.
The fact that arcane spell failure only applies to arcane spells is strongly implied by the name, and clearly stated in the PHB. Further, just to add something constructive, divine casters don't need to rest to recover spells, as I recently discovered to my surprise while planning a night-raid on the party. All they need to do is pray at a predetermined time established by their deity, church, and DM.
Director of Narrative
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The fact that arcane spell failure only applies to arcane spells is strongly implied by the name, and clearly stated in the PHB. Further, just to add something constructive, divine casters don't need to rest to recover spells, as I recently discovered to my surprise while planning a night-raid on the party. All they need to do is pray at a predetermined time established by their deity, church, and DM.
All of which makes Clerics kick a$$! And Drogan, settle your debate with your players by having them read the PHB.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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This is a pretty cut and dried answer as most everyone else has said (except Spyder - and I almost wonder if he misread the question). Only arcane spells suffer arcane spell failure. That's why it's "arcane spell failure" and not just "spell failure" (compare with "spell resistance," which applies to all spells).
From the SRD:
Arcane Spell Failure
Armor interferes with the gestures that a spellcaster must make to cast an arcane spell that has a somatic component. Arcane spellcasters face the possibility of arcane spell failure if they’re wearing armor. Bards can wear light armor without incurring any arcane spell failure chance for their bard spells.Casting an Arcane Spell in Armor
A character who casts an arcane spell while wearing armor must usually make an arcane spell failure roll. The number in the Arcane Spell Failure Chance column on Table: Armor and Shields is the chance that the spell fails and is ruined. If the spell lacks a somatic component, however, it can be cast with no chance of arcane spell failure.
Further support can be gleaned from the following:
1. All the divine casters in the core book (ranger, paladin, cleric, and druid) have armor proficiencies.
2. The only arcance caster in the core book with armor proficiencies (the bard) specifically ignores arcane spell failure in light armor.
3. Earlier editions of the game that did not have armor proficiencies or spell failure prohibited casting arcane spells while wearing armor, but had no such rule against casting divine spells while wearing armor.
4. There is a prestige class in complete divine (the geomancer) which specifically allows arcane spells to be cast as divine to ignore arcane spell failure.
5. All publshed NPC clerics/druids/rangers/paladins wear armor and have spell casting capabilities with no mention of spell failure in their descriptions.
Edit: One last thing - don't get confused by a cleric getting a spell that is typically an arcane spell through their domain spell list. For example, the Protection and Sun domains give access to prismatic sphere, which is normally an arcane spell. However, when cast by a cleric, the spell is a divine spell and does not suffer a chance of arcane spell failure. The same goes for something like dispel magic. When cast by a wizard, it is an arcane spell, when cast by a cleric, it is a divine spell.
Does this make any sense? Not really, but it's the way the game works.
thanks all. that helps quite a bit. i just have to make sure the DM doesn't give me a problem and for my part as a player, deciding on whether playing my usual dwarf which a dwarven cleric would be a first or playing as human or half elf since i want to take the warpriest prestige class (from complete divine)
thanks all. that helps quite a bit. i just have to make sure the DM doesn't give me a problem and for my part as a player, deciding on whether playing my usual dwarf which a dwarven cleric would be a first or playing as human or half elf since i want to take the warpriest prestige class (from complete divine)
On this I'll note that your DM is Always Right. So if he says no armour it stands. But the rules are on your side in this.
I have always assumed that the somatic component of divine spells are simple up, down, left or right hand movements while the arcane ones are more complex with finger positions wrist angles etc...
Of course comparing the two types of spells is a bit like comparing apples to oranges.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I have always assumed that the somatic component of divine spells are simple up, down, left or right hand movements while the arcane ones are more complex with finger positions wrist angles etc...
Of course comparing the two types of spells is a bit like comparing apples to oranges.
I think the problem with distinguishing arcane and divine somatic components in that way is that it invites all sorts of speculation in other areas of the rules. For example, if divine somatics require less movement than arcane somatics:
1. Should divine casters be able to cast somantic spells in a grapple?
2. Should divine casters get a bonus on making concentration checks because their somantic components are easier?
3. Should spellcraft checks be more difficult when used to identify a divine version of a spell vs. an arcane version because the movements are more subtle?
etc...
So, while I like the idea of saying that divine somatic components are somehow different than arcane somatic components with respect to armor, I think that just moves the discrepancy into a different area of the rules.
Good thought provoking questions.
One of the things that I try to incorporate into all of my PC and NPC clerics is that their holy symbol is used and must be present - on their person - for most divine magic to work.
As for somatic components for divine spells we usually roleplay them as gross movements such as bowing one's head, spreading one's arms, or raising one's holy symbol. This would be quite different than the fine intricate patterns an arcansit weaves in order to change reality and work her art.