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I agree with Searn. D&D is about a magical fantasy world, not a real life sim with cool monsters. A hero should be able to do heroic and amazing things that boggle the mind and excite the imagination. Greek myths had weapons and armor that the gods themselves gave to their champions. You seem to want a medieval combat/rpg. Sweat, blood and grit. Cool, but not what D&D is even remotely about.
FH
Conan didn't need no steenkin' magic. Cause he was a badass.
Plus he knew when to run.
But seriously Kurocyn, Heatho is on to something. Mongoose's Conan RPG is awesome. There are virtually no magic items (the ones that do exist are all unique and have bad side effects) and the rare Scholars (spell-users) find that magic is dangerous to use and very restricted. Check it out for sure.
Thank you all for your imput.
Let me begin by saying that I'm not completely against magic. I just wanting to try a campaign without it.
( As a side note, this is also my first time as DM. And yes, there is much tinkering going on. But I still have 3 months before we are scheduled to begin play. Is there a thread for new DMs? )
I just kept getting the feeling that the more magic items/spells got involved, the less the PCs actually had to work for. Is this too mcuh for me to assume?
Neither I, or any of the other players I spoke with, were feeling any acomplishment from the encounters. Yes, they were "challenging," but then again, the only challenging part about them that I saw was surviving long enough for the spell casters to go to work...
I guess the primary influence for said ranting, was the previous DM.
I would go into details, but that would only start another rant. And this post is meant as a responce, not another topic. ( Is there a bad DM thread anywhere? That would be fun... )
As for the other D20 games, I'll stick with D&D for now. I like the game, magic or not.
But a Conan oriented character would be entertaining. ^ ^ Definately a barbarian. I don't even think I have to say anything else.
But, I feel that with proper tinkering and thought applied, this campaign will prove to be challenging and fun for my players, while giving them a new perspective on how to come at a challenge.
And again, thank you all for your imput. And I apologize for the apparent confusion...
-Kurocyn
I just kept getting the feeling that the more magic items/spells got involved, the less the PCs actually had to work for. Is this too mcuh for me to assume?
I would say, in D&D, yes. From what you posted, it sounds like your previous DM did a bad job of balancing out encounters, and for that I'm sorry you had to go through it, but, again, within D&D, magic or its removal is not really the problem/answer. For the amount of time and effort and possible complications that retooling it will cause, I'd really suggest following the above advice and just play another game system. Isn't Iron Kingdoms somewhat along those lines, or am I way off here?
Most of the threads over mechanics here involve spellcasters and tinkering with them and the possible repurcussions. It's not as easy as it sounds.
But, if the game is run right (and again, it's actually kind of hard to run it so bad that this isn't true), magic is invaluable to parties, and they get lots of it, but it does not turn the game into a cakewalk by any means.
Scan the archives. Somewhere, buried deep in times long past, are the ancient tales of DMs bad....
I would say, in D&D, yes.
Why is that? Am I the first one to attempt this or something?
Has the game become so standardized (sp?) that a game without magic is somehow impossible?
And I in no way expect this to be the perfect answer to my complaints. It's only an experiment...
From what you posted, it sounds like your previous DM did a bad job of balancing out encounters...
Yes. Yes he did.
I was going to save this rant for later, but why not...
Now, in a normal, "stereotypical" if you will, game of D&D, how many enemies do you face that are human/elf/etc?
And of those, how many would you say an "average" DM would make spell-casters?
...
Well, this guy... At the VERY least, every other encounter was some form of wizard or sorcerer...
And with each of these encounters, he'd just make up some magic item for them to wear that would completely nulify any tactic that we used against the last guy...
For example, my char was an archer. And during our first "big" encounter, I managed crit, and thusly kill, his wizard.
From then on, everytime we faced a wizard (which, as I said was at least every other fight), they had an amulet/ring/etc that gave them complete protection from ranged attacks.
Eventually, he started giving them items that were for physical attacks as well...
Making them only vunerable (sp?) to magic.
...
Let me see any player, one who doesn't use a spellcaster on a regular basis, NOT get sick and tired of magic after a campaign of this.
Just telling people that I actually played in his campaign is simply embarrassing now...
Most of the threads over mechanics here involve spellcasters and tinkering with them and the possible repurcussions. It's not as easy as it sounds.
I don't doubt that... And though I am tinkering with the sorceress PC, all adjustments will be minor and done slowly. Giving me time to see how well/poorly the adjustments come out.
But the most prominent tinkering that I'm going to have to do is adjust the CR for traps/encounters.
The PHB defines CR by taking a party of 4, with magical healing capabilities, against a CR of X. X being the average lv of the party members.
By removing the magical healing aspect, a CR1 enounter will easily turn into CR3, possibly 4 even.
But, by generating each of the encounters with variable options, i.e. - run away, bypass the encounter, take out enemies one by one over time, etc; I can allow the players to take on challenges that they think they could tackle. Instead of throwing them into a possible TPK, which is very possible in this type of campaign.
But, if the game is run right (and again, it's actually kind of hard to run it so bad that this isn't true), magic is invaluable to parties, and they get lots of it, but it does not turn the game into a cakewalk by any means.
Didn't you just explain why I don't like magic in campaigns to me as an excuse to use it?
As for a cakewalk, how is it not?
All the player has to do is pick the right spell and poof, the problem is gone. And it's not like they don't have ample options. You said it yourself,
...they get lots of it...
As for the thread about bad DMs, I would, but I'd rather just forget...
-Kurocyn
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I would say, in D&D, yes.Why is that? Am I the first one to attempt this or something?
Has the game become so standardized (sp?) that a game without magic is somehow impossible?
And I in no way expect this to be the perfect answer to my complaints. It's only an experiment...
Interesting rant...
Overall I agree with Saern. A few things to consider -- the classes are meant to be balanced assuming a certain amount of magic is available to each class at certain levels. If you take magic away from this, this could (and most likely will) unbalance many classes. You end up with Fighter, Barbarian, and Rogue. Maybe Monk, but if you allow all of a Monk's abilities, it may not be terribly balanced.
The CR of the creatures is meant to also include a certain amount of magic to combat the creature in question. A grick can be devastating at even 5th level to some parties if they don't have magic at all.
It sounds like your DM shouldn't have been a DM. He should be trying to find a group to play in and play the wizard of his dreams.
I don't see how playing a wizard is "easy". Or how you suddenly have every spell to combat every situation. There are a whole lot of spells out there to learn. And just because you now can cast it, doesn't mean that you automatically have every spell memorized. There is a lot of guesswork involved as to what spells to memorize. A sorcerer is a little easier to run, but often times ends up being the "blaster". (But that is a different topic.) My point is that playing a lot of magic doesn't make it easy -- it takes more preparation and guesswork and planning, but not easy. If it works and you choose the right spells, items, etc it should be more rewarding -- not less.
I have been involved in playing a low/no magic game a few times, and they never seem to last. May have just been our group, but I think that it wasn't "fantastic" enough. Simply personal preference.
On the other side, I have thought about running a game composed entirely of wizards/sorcerers just for fun and to see how it would work. It probably wouldn't, but it might be interesting to try.
I would suggest not limiting the sorcerer class at all if you want little/no magic. It will end up making the class almost worthless to play.
Last of my random thoughts -- Keep an eye on your group. If they agree to the little/no magic thing and they are having a great time, then keep it up. If they seem to be dragging and not terribly excited about anything, you may need to modify things.
Good luck with the DMing.
There's a simple solution to the no magic issue. Just play a different game. There are several out there that don't involve magic. If you still want D&D flavor, try a 2nd edition Charlemagne's Paladan's sourcebook for playing in low to no magic campaigns... If you don't need a medieval setting, there are plenty of other independent game settings out there to purchase and run.
The short of it is there's no sense in spending a ton of time tweaking this and that from core 3.x to play the style game that you want. Find the right published mechanics and run from there.
As ever,
ACE
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I'd like to second Doug's recommendation for the A Game of Thrones RPG. I'm currently in a campaign set in Westeros with very low magic, and I'm having a blast with it. Charging into a town filled with wildlings with only a nine-year old kid by my side was not one of my better ideas, but it made for a great session.
There's a simple solution to the no magic issue. Just play a different game. There are several out there that don't involve magic. If you still want D&D flavor, try a 2nd edition Charlemagne's Paladan's sourcebook for playing in low to no magic campaigns... If you don't need a medieval setting, there are plenty of other independent game settings out there to purchase and run.
The short of it is there's no sense in spending a ton of time tweaking this and that from core 3.x to play the style game that you want. Find the right published mechanics and run from there.
As ever,
ACE
For once, I am in 100% agreement with ACE.
AS I was trying to say, I think you're over reacting. You played in a game with a terrible DM. Conclusion: Magic is bad. Seems like a nonsequitor to me.
Magic is, and is not, the end-all, be-all of this game. "Magic" in general, meaning the availability of magical items and spells, is of vital importance. It doesn't guarantee instant success- it guarantees a fighting chance. An individual spell is not going to continuously make or break anything, though obviously in certain situations, it is the best tactic available.
Going up against one, single big foe? Disintigrate is what you want. Lots of hordelings? Fireball. Trying to save your hide from the brawler? Stoneskin. Pesky mage shooting spells at you? Dispel magic, or even Touch of Idiocy.
I know this sounds like exactly what you were talking about- the right spell obviates a given challenge. However, spells known/spells prepared, as pointed out before, severely limits what options you actually have available at any given time. Scrolls and other things can help, but that burns more cash, which you generally don't have enough of to cover every situation.
Did the previous DM remove saving throws, touch attacks, or spell resistance from his game? There are a lot, a lot of ways that even the right spell for the right occassion can completely fail. It also comes down to enemy tactics- except in the game of your previous experience, wizards are glass cannons. If anyone can close in on them and score a hit or two, their gone. Not to mention, closing in on them like that puts a major cramp on their spellcasting, due to things like attacks of opportunity and required Concentration checks.
The end result? Yes, D&D is formulated to incorporate magic in relative abundance, and derivating from that too much raises more trouble than it's worth. If you want that type of game, more power to you, but it would be far easier to find another published system.
For once, I am in 100% agreement with ACE.
Heh, the stars must all be aligned today...now if I could get SG, Aubry, the Lawyer (beginning to sound like the crew from Gilligan's Island) and a few others to agree, it would be a great start to the weekend.
And, Mini-rant:
There NEEDS to be more critical, scholoarly, literature written and published on the RPG subculture. The humanities, in particular, should be able to easily apply theory and rhetoric to our group, but for whatever reason, there's not much published material to study...
As ever,
ACE
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Heh, the stars must all be aligned today...now if I could get SG, Aubry, the Lawyer (beginning to sound like the crew from Gilligan's Island) and a few others to agree, it would be a great start to the weekend.
Sure, why not, I can get behind that. I would've pointed to Iron Heroes as a good low magic D&D experience, but it's definitely better to just play a low-magic rules set than to try and pull out the magic rules from D&D.
Of course, as mentioned, actually playing by the rules contained in the books couldn't hurt either.
And if I'm the Lawyer, you'd better be the Professor.
Side-Rant: WTF? When did they start making blue starburts?
If I didn't say it earlier in this thread, I'll say it again.
I don't think there's anything wrong with D&D.
I like the game too much to let a crappy DM ruin it for me. If anything, it spurred me to play more. Now, I have my own books, and am working on my first game as DM.
And yes, there were ways of avoid his spells, he just fired so many of them that it didn't matter. ( ten lv 9 wizards and a lv 20 wizard in a room, all with multiple spell mastery feats, all aiming at the only doorway in is a bad thing...)
But the crappy DM isn't the point... Moving on...
This is just going to be an experiment. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work.
I not going to say that magic in D&D isn't cool. I like it. I tend to lean towards magical items, but that's just me. I don't have a problem with the magic itself.
I just had a little too much in the last campaing...
And yes, all of my players are wanting to try this campaing out. If they end up not liking the idea, then I'll adjust. (BTW, I am planning on slowly integrating more magic into the campaign, but not until the party gets higher in lv. and discovers more about why there isn't magic in the world anymore...)
As a side question to you guys who have played this game longer than I've been alive...
Since I'm not using magic in this game, would you allow for an extra feat(s), more skill points, or the like?
I've always thought that PCs should get more feats than they do, but I don't want to go too far with it.
I did notice, however, that in the PHB is says that a PC can aquire new feats/skill points through training/study. It makes sense to me.
But I'm also thinking about making adjusting to each PC depending on their background. i.e. - The sorceress PC has been around horses her entire life, so she has ride and handle animal as class skills. Or the scout who has crafted bows for years being proficient with all types of bows. Or at least, proficient with the ones that he crafts. Not just shortbows as the standard for the class.
Why should these characters have to invest extra skill points/feats into things that should come naturally to them?
Have you ever used/made such changes in your games?
-Kurocyn
As a side question to you guys who have played this game longer than I've been alive...
Since I'm not using magic in this game, would you allow for an extra feat(s), more skill points, or the like?
I've put books in the treasures that the characters can find.
Example: The players found a book that talks of the Greyhawk wars. If a character spends a week reading it (assuming he/she can read), he gets a +1 bonus to his Knowledge (history) skill.
So you can have a book on just about anything (from tips on rock climbing to the art of spell casting) and written in any language. So a book on arrow making could be written in elvish, so only characters who can read elvish could get the +1 bonus on their craft skill.
Ultradan
(playing for 25 years)
I used to offer the players this deal:
Any 40 hours spent training a skill (not neccessarily consecutive) would equal one quarter of a skill point. Thus, a full month training any one skill would equal a point. This was offered as a way for Rogues and fighters to do something worthwhile while the party casters crafted and/or researched, slowly building up skills through practice, and maybe making a little cake on the side.
I stopped doing it when it became abused by one character (he would write down a full skill point as soon as he started training and then say he was working on the second, etc..)
This from a player with a Barbarian character w/ a Charisma of 11, who wanted to be a Sorcerer so he could be a Dragon Disciple...(my answer: no! to the DD level- I let him take the sorc. lvl. against my advice)
So to heck with players whose abuse ruins a fun game option for everyone else! You know who you are...(just to tie it back into ranting)
I've put books in the treasures that the characters can find.
Example: The players found a book that talks of the Greyhawk wars. If a character spends a week reading it (assuming he/she can read), he gets a +1 bonus to his Knowledge (history) skill.
So you can have a book on just about anything (from tips on rock climbing to the art of spell casting) and written in any language. So a book on arrow making could be written in elvish, so only characters who can read elvish could get the +1 bonus on their craft skill.
Hmm... I like the idea. But what about feats? According to the PHB, PCs training with an instructor for a couple of weeks, can aquire new feats. Is that too short/long? And what if the PC didn't have an instructor, just worked on it by themselves? Add a week? Two?
Ultradan (playing for 25 years)
Yup. Beat me there... Kurocyn (playing for 2, alive for 19) ^ ^ lol
-Kurocyn
Thanks for the kind words Heath and f2k. I don't really have a problem with people having favorite types of characters, though. Just when those characters are pretty much designed to limit the fun of everyone else involved.I thought PulpCrucifiction's rant was pretty good.I did too, although I'd be one of the guilty one trick ponies--human fighter with max to STR, wpn focus-bastard sword, cleave, whatnot...but I make it mine, man!!! I make it mine!
Like Liam Neeson on Tim Roth in Rob Roy...yeah bring your little rapier, cos I'll open ye up with the claymore!
Dunmaglas!
I wasn't gonna argue with him or nothin, though.
Sometimes I play the same type of character over and over with little tweaks to race or whatnot until I feel like I really know the class; then I move on to the next one; my version of a player mastering a class type or a personae
Kurocyn,
You are very correct in that the core rules books very clearly indicate that characters CAN train for further improvement in skills as well as to gain/learn new feats and skills.
Such training, sadly, is not remotely deliniated in game mechanics in any of the core or WoTC splatbooks that I am aware of. (The retraining in PHB2 is the closest I am aware of having been published on the matter.) However, there are a few precedents for doing so in the magic items from the DMG.
An above post expanded on the idea of the ability score boost books to cover skills and feats, in effect picking them up as a bonus or another form of treasure. Nicely done all, nicely done.
Bluntly, I would rather spend gobs of xp and gp on gaining low-level skills ranks and feats than rapidly levelling up. It would be nice to have something official on the subject rather than blindly tacking on multipliers to the retraining stuff. However, since such is not yet available, I would suggest : Learning a new feat requires 2 weeks for each 'feat step' (1st level=step 1, 3rd level=step 2, 6th level=step 3, 9th level=step 4, etc.) required for the character to meet the qualifications. (In short, you have to qualify for it already, then spend some time out of play learning your thing.) Suggested cost would be - should the GM require or the NPC be willing to accept money instead of favors and tasks to be stipulated later - 500 gp and 20 xp per step per week of training. (Frankly, I'd go with 1k xp per step, but that's just me, and is way out of line from the closest 'official' material.)
Learning additional ranks (again, within your maximum # of ranks/cross-class ranks and current class skills' list, as normal for level advancement, only you're not levelling up) in skills are suggested at 1 week per skill rank learned and a monetary cost of 25 gp and 1 xp per skill rank learned. (I'd go more for 5xp or more per rank, again, not entirely in line with 'official' guidelines on the matter.) With sufficient funds for covering the characters' cost of living (from the DMG somewhere) and tuition, the whole party could "go to college" as it were and pick up those valuable Knowledge skills and other, "fluff" skill ranks that later turn out to be very, very valuable.
My two coppers on that ...
My Rant; this year sucks and it just keeps getting worse! Yet another of my friends was just jailed in the mental ward cause of some stupid crap from his ex; sheesh; next thing you know my buds gonna have to have a witness each time he takes his meds just so somebody can say yes, he is taking his stupid meds quit saying he isnt, then, things got worse from there. Ever experienced how weird it is to have the police call your buddy and ask if they can enter the house and arrest his roommate? This year has been completely nuts.
I know there are some cool women out there; but right now their not my favorite peeps. Being backstabbing liar after a relationship has ended or in in the rocks has got to be the worst sort of thing ever. Sheesh, just walk away.
well, I feel better; a bit.
My Rant; this year sucks and it just keeps getting worse! Yet another of my friends was just jailed in the mental ward cause of some stupid crap from his ex; sheesh; next thing you know my buds gonna have to have a witness each time he takes his meds just so somebody can say yes, he is taking his stupid meds quit saying he isnt, then, things got worse from there. Ever experienced how weird it is to have the police call your buddy and ask if they can enter the house and arrest his roommate? This year has been completely nuts.
I know there are some cool women out there; but right now their not my favorite peeps. Being backstabbing liar after a relationship has ended or in in the rocks has got to be the worst sort of thing ever. Sheesh, just walk away.
well, I feel better; a bit.
Hey, sorry to hear that Valegrim. I can't see how some people can't get the idea that life moves on if you want it to. The next year is just two short months away, so here's to hoping it's better for you.
I have a rant about oriental-style classes.
Firstly, and I may remember someone else saying this a while ago but... making daisho a defining feature of the samurai class is crazy! Yeah they wore 'em but the wakizashi was a back-up weapon worn usually for tradition's sake. Only a very few samurai ever used both swords at once, it was not the way it was done, and they don't even do it in samurai flicks or anime for that matter. Where the *&$# did D&D get the idea that they all go around as two-weapon fighters? Must be confusing for Japanese D&D players: "Why does my samurai have to get two-weapon fighting? I did kendo all through high school and that's not how you sword fight."
And ninja. Oh my god, ninja. The terror in the dark, the hypnotic ki warriors of doom. Every time D&D makes some sort of ninja class (and there's been quite a few over the years) it is always a rogue-based acrobat with a ninja-to and some magic tricks (sorry, ki powers).
Ninja-to did not exist. None have ever been found or even seen in artwork predating the modern era. A ninja was just a samurai who was trained in guerilla warfare and terrorism. Particular clans specialized in these techniques. It didn't mean they were not samurai, or were somehow less honourable than a front-line soldier. Samurai were professional soldiers, at least for most of their history, and they did what they had to do to win wars for their lords, including ambushing rival lords and assassination. All that other stuff is just bunk. Ninjutsu is like kenjutsu or jujutsu. It was a set of techniques taught in some samurai families. It wasn't restricted to special kinds of people, it was a method of war. So if anyone shows you his "traditional" ninja-to and tells you that he's been trained in ninjutsu by a genuine scion of a ninja clan, you can tell him he's been had because THERE WERE NO SECRET NINJA CLANS!!
Everyone knew that the samurai clans of Iga and Koga provinces (among others)specialized in guerilla techniques. It was no fricken secret. I realize ninja have taken on a media persona totally divorced from reality, and that they are funny and blah blah blah but I just have to vent my rage at the constant misinformation that surrounds the subject.
If you want to have a samurai, make a single class Fighter and choose his feats to reflect his fighting style. Then ROLEPLAY bushido. You don't need it as a class feature. If you want a ninja, do the above and add a few levels of Rogue or Scout to him. That's a ninja. Oh and buy him a fricken katana.
Gawds I love this thread ... it is rather theraputic ...
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(Clears his throat, takes a swig of water, and gets comfy.)
***
1. Once again, player stupidity has caused the deaths of 80% of the party I was in this past week - and of the 5 deaths, 2 players were most responsible for the stupidity part, of the two, one in particular was the principle guilty party. The AoW campaign arc has earned itself a reputation as a good deal on the side of nasty - contributing to it by being an immature, spoiled rotten little momma's boy every time at the table just aggravates the situation and contributes to everyone else NOT enjoying the game.
If anyone has a similar problem, *please* don't let the spoiled brat at your table go more than, oh, 5 feet from the table without a soap party. Yank him or her up by the short and curlies and bluntly explain it to them that acting like a friggin Nancy Boy makes the game about as pleasant an experience as eating broken glass. And that brat's behavior will very quickly drive away other players that are more grown up ... like the high school kid new to the game who is 6 or 7 years younger than the nominal adult spoiled brat in question.
Drat, well, so much for a lengthly rant ... time to go pound some skull with mah hobbit greataxe ...
THERE WERE NO SECRET NINJA CLANS!!
Thats exactly what we want you to think...
Sexigolem: keeper of the dark Suko-Kage.
Here's a break down of art school.
1st year- total waste of time. Taught entirely by fine artists, supposed to introduce new students to concepts and brush up technical skills. Does neither unless you are a fine artist. Painting class did not teach me to mix colors properly. Drawing class was a six hour joke that dragged on too long. "Foundations of Visual Computing" did not make me in any way confident in either photoshop or illustrator (which are essential to get an office job in the industry). I won't even bother with the rest.
2nd year- another complete waste of time. Drawing class was helpful, at least. "Principles of Illustration" just made me want to punch somebody. I hate collage, we had to do it all the time. My instructor brought in his darn award winning children's book EVERY WEEK to show us. I learned a gouache-resist technique that was helpful, but beyond that, I walked away knowing exactly what I already knew about illustration. Painting class-- "Oh, you decided to make him green, how interesting! Carry on!" Me: "Wait! Please tell me how to fix this!" History of illustration was such a farce it hurt to sit through it. Learned nothing.
3rd year- Teachers that I universally liked, a big long stress-inducing project to tough me up and I managed to get into the big end of the year show (I was shoved into the back behind the Chairman's kids, of course, but whatever). Best year that I had at school.
4th year- Scrambling to make up for lost time, realizing that by the time graduation arrives in May I will not have a 15-20 piece portfolio like I should because basic things were not stressed for me when they should have been. Full of anxiety, jealous and vengeful towards classmates and studiomates that smugly seem to have it all figured out. Realizing that perhaps father may have been correct when he suggested law school, and then hating myself for thinking that.
Further notes to those curious about art school/looking to join an art school:
-If you decide to deal cocaine, you will be the most popular person on campus as everyone empties their bank accounts for your magic white powder.
-As long as no one can understand your work and it also looks kind of pretty, you will be praised as the finest student in your class, no matter how much you've ripped from Francis Bacon. Hide behind the avant-garde. GO ON. DO IT.
-You will be painfully in the dark on technical issues unless you make certain that you have a decent drawing class and painting class every semester without fail. This is important. In the desire to push forward and be the "next big thing", goofy concepts will be stressed more than any kind of craftsmanship or ability. Being labeled as "traditional" is the kiss of death, apparently, because it's more important to be hip but limited by technical handicaps than it is to have a well-rounded background and a confidence in your own hand. Just look at Gary Baseman. Same cartoon animal creatures, over and over again. In the rush to be 'cutting edge' you may end up not even knowing how to make a simple straight-forward image read properly.
-Hipsters will be everywhere, but never in any of your classes. These people exist only as window dressing for your college experience. They are there to be tragically skinny, to talk about their lame photo projects (they are all film and photo majors, without fail) and to cast disparraging glances at you and your unstylish robust physique. You will never really talk to any of them.
-You will suffer uncomfortable silences in all of your humanities classes while debating whether or not you should just raise your hand to keep the class moving, even if you end up looking like a smarmy know-it-all. Expect to be chastised by a professor used to normal college kids that, you know, actually do the required reading and take notes.
-Boys: female art school students will only like you if you have brittle bird-like legs, an elegantly shaggy haircut, lots of piercings, dumb tattoos and a bicycle. A sense of humor, intelligence and talent will make you very popular when it's time to do homework or when crits come around, but you will not be given the time of day otherwise. Embrace it. Be it. The same just about holds for male art students as well, if that's your preference. But being a drag queen also helps, in that case. Just make sure you talk about Matthew Barney a lot.
-Girls: if you take a picture of your crotch and turn it in, you will get an A without fail. You are the private fantasy of the straight male instructors. However, you will be unfairly expected to have an encyclopedic knowledge of female artists and the struggles they have gone through. If you decide to paint a female nude in any way, it will be immediately applauded as artistically brave because you've "appropriated the male gaze". This is all without you even really trying. Seeing yourself as a victim and perpetuating bad feminism will be applauded, especially if you're attractive and do a lot of nude performance pieces.
Congratulations. You're an artist now.
Since I'm not using magic in this game, would you allow for an extra feat(s), more skill points, or the like?
I've always thought that PCs should get more feats than they do, but I don't want to go too far with it.
Instead of blugdeoning you with my years of experience, a suggestion: get Mike Mearls Iron Heroes from Malhavoc Press.
A low magic world, where the PCs are justly compensated, but the game is still a seat-of-your-pants sword and sorcery romp. The game is the most well done low magic game I have ever read.
So do yourself a favor- get the book, see how its done, and then proceed.
Here's a break down of art school.
1st year- total waste of time. Taught entirely by fine artists, supposed to introduce new students to concepts and brush up technical skills. Does neither unless you are a fine artist. Painting class did not teach me to mix colors properly. Drawing class was a six hour joke that dragged on too long. "Foundations of Visual Computing" did not make me in any way confident in either photoshop or illustrator (which are essential to get an office job in the industry). I won't even bother with the rest.2nd year- another complete waste of time. Drawing class was helpful, at least. "Principles of Illustration" just made me want to punch somebody. I hate collage, we had to do it all the time. My instructor brought in his darn award winning children's book EVERY WEEK to show us. I learned a gouache-resist technique that was helpful, but beyond that, I walked away knowing exactly what I already knew about illustration. Painting class-- "Oh, you decided to make him green, how interesting! Carry on!" Me: "Wait! Please tell me how to fix this!" History of illustration was such a farce it hurt to sit through it. Learned nothing.
3rd year- Teachers that I universally liked, a big long stress-inducing project to tough me up and I managed to get into the big end of the year show (I was shoved into the back behind the Chairman's kids, of course, but whatever). Best year that I had at school.
4th year- Scrambling to make up for lost time, realizing that by the time graduation arrives in May I will not have a 15-20 piece portfolio like I should because basic things were not stressed for me when they should have been. Full of anxiety, jealous and vengeful towards classmates and studiomates that smugly seem to have it all figured out. Realizing that perhaps father may have been correct when he suggested law school, and then hating myself for thinking that.
Further notes to those curious about art school/looking to join an art school:
-If you decide to deal cocaine, you...
Mommy, Wow! I'm- an- art-ist now!
I have a rant about oriental-style classes.
I know- I started a thread about it.
And ninja. Oh my god, ninja. The terror in the dark, the hypnotic ki warriors of doom. Every time D&D makes some sort of ninja class (and there's been quite a few over the years) it is always a rogue-based acrobat with a ninja-to and some magic tricks (sorry, ki powers).
THERE WERE NO SECRET NINJA CLANS!!
Yeah, but there were no court wizards, thieves guilds, elves, dwarves or orcs. There were no Black Masses like the evil churches.
While there should be an attempt at histroical use as a basis for the game, Ninja clans should be kept in because they are fun. They are a good, cool idea that can be fun and useful in the game- even if they did not really exist. Sometimes you have to roll with the punches.
Here's a break down of art school.
*snip*
Yikes! And here I was thinkin' 'bout goin' to art school.
Yikes! And here I was thinkin' 'bout goin' to art school.Here's a break down of art school.
*snip*
I have improved, of course, since coming here and I still consider it a good experience despite my frustrations. I've made good friends here and there are some good teachers. But it's sometimes tough to cut through the BS. The idea that you can walk into a school and four years later be an artist is silly, now that I've been through it. Coupled with the fact that this is one of the only career paths where a degree is completely optional, it upsets me that after spending all this time and money on an education I can still see large gaps where I'm not up to speed.
I would advise, before signing up full time for an art school, to take some continuing education classes there, preferably in the drawing/painting area. No matter what you're doing, time spent drawing and painting will always help you. My biggest concern is the focus on concepts at the expense of a solid foundation. Innovation is great and important, but you need to understand what you're working off of before you can go in and blow the lid off of things.
I would advise, before signing up full time for an art school, to take some continuing education classes there, preferably in the drawing/painting area. No matter what you're doing, time spent drawing and painting will always help you. My biggest concern is the focus on concepts at the expense of a solid foundation. Innovation is great and important, but you need to understand what you're working off of before you can go in and blow the lid off of things.
At this point, I'm staring down the "how long has it been since high school again?" and wondering when I did plan to go to college. Begs the question "What exactly am I looking to get by going to an art school?"
Fodder for mental activity, at any rate. :)
Here's a break down of art school...
OMGWTFBBQLOL! That post seriously made my day, though I'm sorry to say, James, that the "further notes" section might be true for more than just art schools. If anyone here is seriously considering getting an English/Creative Writing degree, let me know....
(P.S: That bit about "appropriating the male gaze" almost made me snort a kidney bean.)
Luke - Yeah, I know, but it just gets to me that this sort of stuff is often presented as historical fact. Even alot of people in the martial arts community buy into it (which I guess is not that surprising considering the mental state of many martial arts geeks).
A samurai is a fighter. There were many different kinds of samurai. Some had steady jobs, others didn't (ronin), some used ambush, others fought on traditional battlefields. We don't invent a different class to represent an Italian condottieri or an Aztec jaguar warrior - it is assumed that "fighter" includes any professional soldier irrespective of culture.
Except where Japan is concerned and then it's all "ooh, they weren't just fighters they had a code of honour and stuff." News flash - so did every warrior aristocracy I can think of. Amd there was nothing in the tenets of bushido forbidding terrorism or guerilla tactics. That was just completely invented by western historians who couldn't reconcile their western idea of honour with the existence of "ninja," and wanted to explain them. But Bushido is about duty, not justice or fair fighting. If a samurai's lord ordered him to do something he did it, that's what bushido was and you don't need to make it a game mechanic.
But yeah, ninja are cool and I'll use them in my game as a fantasy element, not based on historical fact. Just ranting. Oh and where's your thread? I'd like to read it.
James - tell me about it, my girlfriend is about to graduate art school and 80% of her classmates are narcissistic self-centred hipsters (except for the 3 we play D&D with who are awesome fantasy and comics nuts). We went to the end of year ball recently and I got really annoyed after a while, it felt like most of them were judging everyone else against some imaginary coolness standard, but at the same time were petrified that they didn't measure up themselves and someone was going to call them on it. It was like being in a room full of social retards all desperately pretending to themselves that they were awesome. If someone didn't know who I was, their default stance was that I didn't matter and they could safely be rude and superior to me. It was a bit of a shock coming from a workplace where people treat each other like human beings.
The next day I told my gf, and said I was a bit annoyed because I couldn't tell if anyone actually liked me or not. She said "Jimmy, I've been there for three years and I genuinely don't know if my best friends like me." I don't know how people survive it. It's hell.
Kahoolin: Amen, and point agreed. Nice to see someone shares my frustration.
Here's a break down of art school...
ILMAO! I was an english major but I feel for ya man! Be assured that any creative field has all the same rediculous trends. For my entire junior year I actually thought that it would be a good idea to go to grad school for fiction writing, with my favorite genres being fantasy and sci-fi. As a side note, my school's writing professor couldn't keep the difference between the two genres straight even knowing me for 3 years!
Why are so many gamers utterly dependant on *choir song* THE BOOKS *choir song*?! It happens more often on wizards.com than other places, for example:
Poster: My wizard 15 only has a decade or so of natural life left. How can I extend his life?
(about a dozen people offer suggestions, all of which come from WotC printed material like Wishing for more life, Elixir of immortality, Greenstar adept, et...)
Me: Well those are all great suggestions, but you ARE a wizard right? Why not just whip up an immortality spell or barter/steal one from an NPC wizard?
Poster: My DM hates non-official material, and so do the other players so that's not an option.
Me: ...
I don't understand this obsession with official material...we do realize that rpgs are meant to be shaped by the players right? Are we terrified of disrupting the game balance that WotC is supposedly immune from disrupting or are we just devoid of creativity?
Another short example:
Poster: Is there a D&D book that can help me make my character more anime-like?
Me: ...must restrain commentary on poster's intelligence...head may explode...OWE MY INTELLIGENCE!!!
I'm glad you guys were amused. I haven't seen the movie "Art School Confidential" but I read the original Dan Clowes strip and it's all true. Every last bit of it.
I also left out the snooty jerks that work at the art supply store and somehow manage to eke out some tiny bit of extra superiority by wearing a smock and acting as if they know everything about the supplies and, therefore, art in general. It's pretty pathetic.
Part of me takes shameful joy out of knowing that only 25% of the graduating class really ends up in the field, much less actually pursuing the arts. I hope that the genuine, funny, less than perfectly styled and very talented people I'm friends with are in that quarter of my class (hopefully alongside me) but I also realize that the ability to BS and use big words to describe small ideas will sometimes carry jerks into success.
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I almost got in a wreck with a motorcyclist today.
I was in the right lane of a two lane access road, and the lane ended for construction, so I put my blinker on and started merging into the left lane. When he swerved around me at 50 m.p.h. and passed me anyway, he's lucky I saw him; I have pretty good reflexes (I guess). It was kinda dark out.
It was kinda like he swooped past me.
Director of Narrative
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I hate waking up and taking a horrible dig on my first run of the day at the local skatepark. I also hate bands that owe me money for recording them over two years ago. I hate my players for still not owning a single book. Rant thread is great though!!
Man, I feel you about the band thing. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you will never see that money again unless you got a written signed agreement (aka contract). By the way, if you want 100-150 CDs of a hardcore metal band you've probably never heard of I've got a box in my closet.
Okay...I've been lurking here forever, and finally decided to sign up...only to remember that I had an account from back in the day (when I could afford subscriptions to Dungeon and Dragon :( )
Anyway...this has probably all been said elsewhere before, but I thought I'd complain about it anyway, because it drives me crazy.
I hate favored classes. I'd like to get rid of the whole idea, but even accepting that there is some need for them (perhaps to keep down on people going crazy munchkin and taking like 2 levels in 8 different classes), I hate that they are defined by race. Why is it that a elf with an intelligence of 8 is particularly good at being a wizard? That makes no sense to me whatsoever. If you're going to have favored classes, make them either the character's first class (after all, young people tend to get steered towards what they are best it, ideally) or better yet, make it stat dependent. You've got an 18 STR? I bet you'll make a pretty good fighter. An 18 WIS? Welcome to the priesthood. (Well, okay...for some classes I'd make it a mix. High WIS and CHA, cleric, high WIS and DEX, monk...I'd have to think about druid. I might just say "Pick one that your highest stat is important to, so high charisma could be paladin, sorceror, or maybe cleric, etc.) I just hate that it's all race driven, and stats aren't involved at all. Someone with an int of 8 isn't going to be predisposed to wizarding, even if they are an elf who's going to live for 600 years or more.
I also hate the concept of class skills. I mean, certainly, I can see where some skills would have to be class skills (spellcraft and knowledge:arcana for wizards, knowledge:religion for clerics, etc.) but other than that...I hate the whole idea. Why should my bedouin (sp?) fighter be predisposed towards swimming? Did he learn in a mirage? I'm guessing he can probably manage to survive on his own for a while, and better than most people. I think there should be a core group of skills for each class (just 3 or 4, that are things that are simply required for the class) and then the player gets to pick a number more (determined by class how many) that reflect their background. It makes much more sense to me from a role-playing perspective, and it frees up some of the "We need an X, because we don't have anyone with skills Y and Z."
For that matter, I hate the whole trapsense thing with rogues. I've seen it argued that no one would ever play a rogue without it, but I think sneak attack and the skill points are enough of a draw. I just don't like that anyone who's chosen to make a study of traps (i.e., high search skill, high disable device) shouldn't be able to disarm a trap just as effectively because they're of the wrong class.
One last rant...I hate prestige classes that require proficiency with all weapons of a certain type (and armor too, but not quite as much.) Any prestige class that requires martial weapon proficiency basically says "You have to take a level of paladin/figher/ranger/barbarian" to take this class. So, often, you have to cherry pick one level of a class, even though you don't want that class at all. For example, the spellsword requires simple and martial proficiency, and proficiency with all types of armor. It would make much more sense to me for it to require weapon focus with a particular weapon, and armor optimization (which I know only exists for heavy armor, but it really should exist for any, shouldn't it? I mean, heavy armor already maxes out the combined armor and dex bonus you can get, with full plate at a total of 9, matched only by padded.) and restrict the character to gaining the benefits of that class when using that type of weapon and wearing that type of armor.
I know, you're going to tell me that I should be playing a different game, then. I really do like the ease and simplicity of the d20 system, and love D&D in general, I just get frustrated with how restrictive it is sometimes. It becomes impossible to make the character's I've envisioned, or at least makes it feel munchkin-ish. I know I can house rule all these things (and I have, on the rare chances I get to play any longer.) I just wish I didn't have to, I guess.
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I hate days that start off with a bunch of bad signs. It just puts me in a crappy mood. Personally, I'd rather start the day happy, and then slowly have my hope ripped from me as the day wore on.
Not today though, first it was the news, then driving to work in a friggin typhoon, and then I had computer problems. And to top it all off, I read that the Mad Max IV movie won't have Mel Gibson. WTF! I mean, yeah he's got his problems, but what Hollywooder doesn't? He's still a very talented actor/director. Mad Max just won't be the same without Max.
All in all, today is not looking good.
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I almost got in a wreck with a motorcyclist today.
I was in the right lane of a two lane access road, and the lane ended for construction, so I put my blinker on and started merging into the left lane. When he swerved around me at 50 m.p.h. and passed me anyway, he's lucky I saw him; I have pretty good reflexes (I guess). It was kinda dark out.
It was kinda like he swooped past me.
Stuff like that really puts a damper on your day/week. Glad to hear you didn't suffer a crash. Do they have helmet laws in your state? Delaware doesn't and I just cringe when I see some guy without a helmet doing 80mph while standing on his gastank. Most motorcyclists these days are idiots and the shows that show these imbeciles that doing tricks on a highway is cool should be illegal. It would be fine if they just killed themselves but no, they are gonna slam into the SUV with the family in it and deprive some kids of one of their parents forever. I respect that Cyclists want to "ride free" and all but if you aren't being extra safe and responsible you deserve to have the bike taken from you and the right to "ride free" stripped away.
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I think they do not have helmet laws in Texas; I base this on the sheer number of helmetless motorcyclers I see.
It makes little sense to me; I've heard the old wise words as pertains to motorcycling: "if you're gonna ride, you're gonna fall."
I got the feeling it was a quick young speedy boy on a crotch rocket. I think he had a helmet on.
Oh, God, how I loathe and hate the official NWN2 forums! I've never appreciated Paizo's soothing, user-friendly interface as much as I do right now. Those things are a nightmare!
NWN2 was supposed to come with a vast list of monsters and creatures, more or less all of the entries in the Monster Manual, for toolset users. However, there's only about 25% of what they promised. Now, a day or so after the game, I did a casual scan of the NWN2 official forums, and there was a thread commenting about this. Well, today I was wondering if there was any official word out about possibly fixing this problem.
So I go to "search forums" and type in "monsters," since I remember that word being in the thread title. I then proceed to look over 200 thread titles that have NOT ONE F#$&ING THING TO DO WITH MONSTERS AT ALL! I went back and tried "monster manual," with the hopes of finding a thread that said something along the lines of, "where are the other things from the monster manual?" NOPE! Just a bunch of stuff about upcomming plugins and add ons and other things that have NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I SEARCHED FOR!
Not to mention, I was trying to look at two websites at once, but everytime a new page loaded on the NWN2 forums, it wrenched me back to them from the other site, which was extremely frustrating.
I HATE ATARI'S FORUMS!!!!! AARRGGHH!!!!!!!!! SAERN SMASH! SAERN SMASH!!!
EDIT- Oh, not to mention the infuriating comments I spied on a thread there, which seemed to indicate that the vast majority of program writers over there have the feeling that pen and paper D&D is somehow inferior to NWN2. A great deal of them apparently don't own even own the core rulebooks! NO! No making of modules for a D AND FREAKING D GAME unless you know how to play the real D&D! NWN2 is fine and good and all, but it doesn't hold a candle to good old pen and paper. I don't have to know C and create a custom skin set and three new plug ins to get what I want in pen and paper- I just describe it and go. If they feel this is somehow cheap because they can't actually see it, get an imagination, you retards! GAH!!!!!
Oh, I feel soooo much better now....