Traps and Treasure

[ultrazen]

This is one of those little D&D things that make me twitch from time to time. So far it has never actually come up in a game I've run or played in, but if I dwell on it for very long, I can't think of a good reason that it shouldn't, except that it may have repercussions that aren't all fun, so you just metagame the situation and ignore it so things are fun.

Anyway, the clever rogue picking a lock or bypassing a trap to get to the loot is a D&D staple, especially at the lower levels of the game before the characters can smash or blast their way past most mundane obstacles. My problem with it is this: strictly by the rules, the locks and traps are often worth as much or more than the treasure they guard.

For example:
A goblin adept keeps a few herbs, mushrooms, ceremonial vestments, and a ceremonial dagger in a small chest. She has an average quality padlock on the chest to discourage the rowdier goblins from getting at the 'shrooms before temple services properly begin. Then some first level adventurers show up, clean out the goblins, and start looting.

The rogue gets to the adept's stuff and either picks the lock or does a thorough search and finds where she hid the key. Nobody back in town wants Maglubiyet vestments, and the 'shrooms probably need a bit of refining before they are worthwhile to take to the seedier side of town, and there may be alignment issues with such an endeavor anyway. So unless the rogue has Craft (narcotic) and/or modestly evil tendencies he takes care to hide from the paladin, they probably get left also. That leaves the ceremonial dagger. A quick Appraise suggests it can probably fetch about 75gp from a jeweler or curiosity shop. Not bad for first level.

The vanquished goblin king also kept a locked chest, his equipped with a deadly (well, at least inconvenient) CR 1 poison needle trap. Inside is the majority of the goblins' wealth: a small bag of gold, two bags of silver, a few scattered platinum pieces and small gemstones, a gold chalice or nonmagical ring or necklace, and perhaps a potion of cure moderate wounds. Total value: about 1,000 gp. Combined with the goblin king's +1 magic sword, the masterwork chain shirt off the guard captain, plus a few other valuables here and there, it's been a decent haul for our mighty first level heroes.

They head back to town, leaving the lock and trapped chest behind. But wait a minute. An average lock is worth 40 gp (effectively 1/3 of the adept's treasure) and the poison needle trap in that chest is worth a hefty 1,300 gp according to the DMG, worth more in fact than the treasure it did so little to protect. Presumably the lock on this chest is also at least of average quality, most likely built into the chest. By leaving the two chests and locks behind, the adventurers have abandoned materials worth about 1,400 gp if purchased on a market, or probably about 20-25% of the goblin's wealth.

Why?

Why are locks and traps left behind by so many adventurers when some of them scrounge around for every last silver piece (and won't pass up the coppers if they're already bagged up)?

As a side note, what if a party stumbles onto that game-breaking combo of bolt cutters (Arms and Equipment Guide, 6 gp) and the Mending spell? Encounter an amazing padlock on a thick iron door? Rogue: "Somebody get my bolt cutters off the pack mule and have the cleric mend this thing so we can try to sell it to a locksmith back in town. He could probably make a key and still sell it for a profit. Mr. Barbarian, help with the cutters, please?"

Sure there are ways a DM could just try to hand-wave the issue away. The internal mechanism of the trap breaks when it activates, for example. Replies the rogue: "I know how to make traps. We'll take it anyway and I'll see if I can fix it up; otherwise I might know a guy that knows a guy...."

Granted, some of the market prices and the Craft skill mechanic don't hold up well to close scrutiny. But even with judicious DM tinkering with them, it still seems like there are a lot of valuable locks and traps laying around. I'm curious if the idea of taking the treasure chest as treasure has ever come up in somebody else's game, and if there are groups that make sure to recover the locks and traps they encounter. If so, how did such thorough scavenging work out in game?

[Savaun Blackhawk]

Ive never seen it done it a game...scavenging, that is. Its an excellent idea. However, there are different paths of thinking between the DM and the players. The players may not know those items are worth money. As a DM we have access to charts, tables etc that a PC doesnt. He is in a living, breathing world.

As a DM, when I see there are missed opportunities I like to throw them out to the players outside of the game. Example: "You know, you guys are looking all over for a map of the dungeon. Yet you guys didnt bother to look in the library, the church or the academy."

When I do things like that I only say it to a person whos character would reasonably know these things. A wizard is also a scholar. He would know to check the library or the academy. Similarly, a rogue would probably know that traps and locks are worth GP, but the person playing the rogue may not. It doesnt hurt to offer "tips and tricks" type hint and may actually expand the game.

On a recent email I sent to my players I said, "FYI, not all NPC encounters must end in bloodshed."
I did that to open doors for negotiation. Now, sometimes, the PCs will negotiate to get what they want and then kill the NPC :p

[Saern]

I would just chop the value of the traps significantly. I've no problem with them taking the lock and selling it. But, the traps are so expensive. Why, I wonder? A pit trap costs over 1,000gp? Since when? I think the idea was to keep the traps out of the PCs, but I don't think it's fair, for several reasons.

One, when are they going to use the traps? They would have to have a place of residence first, and in my experience, most parties move around a fair bit and don't get such a base of operations until later levels, if ever.

Two, if they get such a base and want to defend it, why are they penalized? The NPCs are generally given the traps and such with no thought to the cost, just so the encounter can be challenging. But, the party would be extremely hard pressed to put as many traps around their lair as that of the BBEG they destroyed a few levels back. If they want to take the time to have a stronghold and ward it, they should be able to!

I don't like having foes that do things absolutely beyond the PCs abilities. One of the biggest things about D&D is, in my opinion, that the enemies are bound by the same rules as the party. If they want to invest the time and energy to do what their foes are doing, I let them. It may not be easy or practical given their situation, but, eventually, they'll accomplish the same thing.

[GreatNPowerfulAahz]

Yes I have encountered this in game before. As a player; Nic(My Rogue/Monk/Invisible Blade) has a fondnes for locks and traps. Sometimes they come in quite handy, example: our party's main tank, the Barbarian was dominated by a vampire to defend it, with a round or two(maybe 3) to retrieve his trusty Mstwk Sap and 2 pairs of manacles, the Barb was down and out, trussed up and no chance for waking with the Rogue sitting on her back with a readied action to invoke sleepy-time. {Manacles were found on a kidnapped elf, and were cast aside as non-treasure... Nic grabbed them anyway, much to the party's dismay. Who got the "Great plan Nic!"... I did!}

Example #2: after fighting a skeletal T-rex the party was really wiped out and needed to camp to get spells back. the problem was, we were still in the enemies stronghold! Nic scrounged around in his Hewards Handy Haversack and found: a sack of glass beads(DC 15 Balance check), a thunderstone, some twine, some pitons and hammer, and an alchemist's fire. One Craft: Trapmaking check, and a Hide check to conceal it and we went to sleep. Middle of the night we were awakened to a loud boom, followed by swearing in common. All of the party wears light or no armor except for the cleric, so we had ample time to stand, retreive weapons, and get into formation before the attackers came to us. {Now the party always wants to know if I'll keep track of inventory!}

Plus it doesn't hurt that i just happen to collect all weapons, armor, and items from almost every encounter to sell back at town for party fund. In a group of 5 with 2 Haversacks, a Bag of Holding type II, and a Quiver of Ehlonna; we usually have the room to do it.

Greedy Rogue+Appraise+Ample storage = Fat Purses for ALL!! >:)