Thanks for the comments, folks.
Baudot, I just have a couple of quick comments about your Epic adventure. I liked the query and I do not think that the gruesome aspects of your query had a lot to do with the editor's rejecting the query (it all depends on the tone, as I was reading the adventure, I didn't think the query was any more gruesome than some of the darker fairy tales, so I think it could be crafted to meet the PG-13 criteria). I think the problem was that the encounters did not give enough description of what exactly the challenge was, especially to an epic party. Here is one example:
Walkway (EL special)
A party entering through the front door will first see Tylaes’ bones, hanging as a chandelier from the ceiling. The bones are tied under spring-loaded tension into a complex knot around his still-beating heart. Snakes crawls in and out of the knot, and razor-sharp adamantine wire holds it together. Getting rid of the snakes if a prerequisite for performing the disable device checks needed to unknot the bones without being slashed by the wire or reducing the heart to bits.
I think this sounds very cool and the image it creates is evocative, but after reading it twice, I have several questions: How exactly are snakes a challenge to an epic level party? If they are not standard snakes, what are they or what makes them a challenge to an ECL 21 party? How difficult is the adamantine razor wire knot to untie? Why? What prevents the party from simply using magic to release the heart? How is the EL Special? Is it the snakes, the trap, the puzzle?
I think these practical considerations are what caused this query to be rejected by the editors.
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There was a time a few years back when it seemed like every time I got an interesting idea I would find an article using that theme in the next issue. It's an odd thing but I suspect it happens all the time.
I guess, in a way, that means I'm tapping the right vein. Now I just need to tap it before anyone else does...
~Jaye
ALl right, time for someone to cut me to ribbons. This one is my first and got shot down because "it doesn't suit our current needs". I'd appreciate some feedback. Oh, and yes, I do see the parallels between this and Savage Tide.
“The Isle of Tearer” or “The Well of Sorrow” (working titles)
An epic city / wilderness adventure for four 25th level characters.
Background
Centuries ago, Illgaath, a corpse tearer linnorm and disciple of Incabulos, turned a remote island paradise into blighted, plague- ridden mire. A sacred spring blessed by Obad-Hai nourished the island and the fey that inhabited it, until Illgaath contaminated the water with a dark blessing from his master: a black cyst carrying untold deadly plagues. A wave of disease and death washed over the island, leaving behind a cesspool of filth and rot. Illgaath remains on the island to this day to guard the well from those who would seek to undo its terrible curse.
Over time, the linnorm allied with Refin’nej, a powerful green hag cancer mage. They have concocted dreadful disease carrying swarms and sold them to a network of various doomsday groups (death cults, evil organizations), who will unleash the swarms at strategic locations all over Oerth. This is where the adventure begins.
The Adventure-Part 1
The PCs’ city / kingdom is attacked by two plague swarms (ruin swarms with a supernatural disease attack), released by a small but powerful cult of Anthraxus. Once the party has dealt with the immediate threat, investigation of the swarms leads to three paths:
1- Find the perpetrators: the trail leads to the Anthraxus cult, led by an advanced nycaloth commander and two half- fiend ogre mages (sorcerer, cleric). The PCs learn the swarms came from a third party, as well as the ship that brought it to the city.
2- Research the swarm: a successful history or geography check shows a similar plague ravaged a nearby region nearly three centuries ago. A lone dryad escaped the island but brought the disease back with her, which killed her and a small elven community. All that remains is an elven ghost who can provide an important clue (regarding the Oracle of the island), but first they must remove a clan of geriviars from the area.
3- The mysterious ship: a vessel of unknown origin sailed into port two days before the swarm attack. This can be tied to the cult, but further investigation finds the ship once belonged to a notorious pirate twenty years ago when it disappeared at sea. Only a retired mage returned from the voyage and if the party seeks him out they may learn what transpired as well as the location to the island.
Once the PCs have gathered enough information, they are ready for Part 2.
The Adventure-Part 2
The island is the source of the plague swarms and the lair of Illgaath and Refin’nej. When the PCs arrive, their objective should be to find whatever is responsible for the plagues. If they have obtained the clue from the elf ghost then they should seek the Oracle, who will help them considerably in their quest. The party will face Illgaath’s powerful undead minions, but the emphasis will be on the hostile environment. The constant threat of rotting disease and nature corrupted will wear down PCs who try to hack their way through and survival may prove to be a bigger challenge than the monsters.
Key Encounters:
1- Corrupted elder treant: once an island protector, now twisted and evil from disease. The PCs can get vital information of the Oracle’s location.
2- The Oracle: a water weird with ties to the island can be contacted from the bottom of the island lake. She can provide the party with the background info and a way into the Well.
3- The Defiled Grove: once a sanctuary for the fey inhabitants, this steaming bog is a breeding ground for disease and undead. Advanced angels of decay (formerly fey creatures) stalk the mire, along with banshees, plague blights and a paragon crimson death. Some minor undead (zombies, wights) prowl the bog, more for atmospheric dressing than actual threat.
4- The Plague Pits: Refin’nej (a green hag half troll vampire druid / cancer mage) dwells here, conducting vile experiments and brewing wretched viruses. She has two advanced greenvises and a viral agent serving her. The area is booby trapped with concealed snare spells and a supernatural mist with dust of sneezing and choking effects. If the PCs want to end the plague threat or help the Oracle, they’ll need to destroy the hag.
5- The Missing Pirate: A wildcard NPC, the pirate that disappeared 20 years ago was turned into a half- golem (clay or mud) by Refin’nej. It went completely insane and now serves Illgaath for amusement. It has immunity to diseases (construct traits) and has much knowledge of the island. Highly unpredictable but can be useful to the PCs.
6-The Well: Concealed by a wall of twisted roots and thorns, the Well is a deep natural shaft and a cesspool of foul diseases. The wall of roots / thorns must be bypassed (teleport, etherealness won’t work), which acts like a verdigris epic spell if attacked and has 500 hit points. The Oracle can transport the party via her elemental pool to the bottom of the Well, which attracts less attention but exposes them to disease. Once inside they must contend with Illgaath (a corpse tearer that casts spells as a 20th level cleric) and two flesh jellies (target CR 30-31).
Conclusion
The adventure is over when the party has defeated Illgaath and his minions, but there are still many loose ends for the party to explore. Several doomsday groups may still have plague swarms that the PCs can track down, perhaps the half-golem pirate knows of them. Also, the Well itself is still contaminated and the adventure could be expanded trying to undo Incabulos’ curse, which would almost certainly involve developing an epic spell. Should they succeed the PCs could have a magic island out of the deal, the gratitude of Obad-Hai and the enmity of Incabulos.
Approx. 14000 words, 3 maps (2 small, 1 big)
Luz, I liked your query a lot, but I noticed a couple of things after reading it that may have impacted the editor's decision:
1. From statements on this board, it seems that the Dungeon editors are kind of hagged out. A prominent green hag villain (even if she is a vampiric half-troll) is probably overkill at this point.
2. You use a lot of non-core material (including stuff from the ELH) and classed/templated monsters. Given the massive size of epic level stat-blocks, your word count may be a tad too low.
3. Most importantly, I don't think your query shows how it is going to interact with epic level characters and their abilities. Your query presupposes a lot of investigation on the part of the PCs, but epic level characters have a lot of powerful divination magic at their disposal. You also state that:
"The party will face Illgaath’s powerful undead minions, but the emphasis will be on the hostile environment. The constant threat of rotting disease and nature corrupted will wear down PCs who try to hack their way through and survival may prove to be a bigger challenge than the monsters."
How so? By epic level, several characters are probably immune to disease and have powerful magics that can cure just about everything. What about these diseases and this environment makes it particularly dangerous for 25th level characters?
4. What rewards should the characters expect? Any nifty treasures? You allude to the island itself and Obad-Hai's gratitude, but that is tucked away in the section on future adventures.
That's it for now. I guess I should go back and do some work, ;).
Luz, I liked your query a lot, but I noticed a couple of things after reading it that may have impacted the editor's decision:
1. From statements on this board, it seems that the Dungeon editors are kind of hagged out. A prominent green hag villain (even if she is a vampiric half-troll) is probably overkill at this point.
2. You use a lot of non-core material (including stuff from the ELH) and classed/templated monsters. Given the massive size of epic level stat-blocks, your word count may be a tad too low.
3. Most importantly, I don't think your query shows how it is going to interact with epic level characters and their abilities. Your query presupposes a lot of investigation on the part of the PCs, but epic level characters have a lot of powerful divination magic at their disposal. You also state that:
"The party will face Illgaath’s powerful undead minions, but the emphasis will be on the hostile environment. The constant threat of rotting disease and nature corrupted will wear down PCs who try to hack their way through and survival may prove to be a bigger challenge than the monsters."
How so? By epic level, several characters are probably immune to disease and have powerful magics that can cure just about everything. What about these diseases and this environment makes it particularly dangerous for 25th level characters?
4. What rewards should the characters expect? Any nifty treasures? You allude to the island itself and Obad-Hai's gratitude, but that is tucked away in the section on future adventures.
That's it for now. I guess I should go back and do some work, ;).
Thanx for the input, Shroomy. You made A lot of good points, particularly about challenging an epic party's abilities. My goal here was to create an epic level dungeon without relying heavily on gods/demon princes or other-worldly, high powered beings. It's tough trying to explain this in a 1000 words or less.
Yeah, I read about enough hags about 2 days after sending this in. Bummer! Also, I left the avenues open for the PCs to investigate as well as use their divinations. Y'know, trying to reward them a little more for doing the extra detective work. Oh well, as they say if at first you don't succeed...
Still, I really want to see a linnorm in a dungeon!
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ALl right, time for someone to cut me to ribbons. This one is my first and got shot down because "it doesn't suit our current needs". I'd appreciate some feedback. Oh, and yes, I do see the parallels between this and Savage Tide.
“The Isle of Tearer” or “The Well of Sorrow” (working titles)
An epic city / wilderness adventure for four 25th level characters.
I thought the query was very interesting and well-done. Aside from Shroomy's comments, though, I think there might've been one really big knock against it. Given the difficulty of writing an effective epic-level adventure, I doubt the editors would accept any query for one from a first-time writer. I'd try to get in one or two lower-level scenarios before hitting them with the big guns.
I thought the query was very interesting and well-done. Aside from Shroomy's comments, though, I think there might've been one really big knock against it. Given the difficulty of writing an effective epic-level adventure, I doubt the editors would accept any query for one from a first-time writer. I'd try to get in one or two lower-level scenarios before hitting them with the big guns.ALl right, time for someone to cut me to ribbons. This one is my first and got shot down because "it doesn't suit our current needs". I'd appreciate some feedback. Oh, and yes, I do see the parallels between this and Savage Tide.
“The Isle of Tearer” or “The Well of Sorrow” (working titles)
An epic city / wilderness adventure for four 25th level characters.
I think "Quicksilver Hourglass" was from a first time writer.
I thought the query was very interesting and well-done. Aside from Shroomy's comments, though, I think there might've been one really big knock against it. Given the difficulty of writing an effective epic-level adventure, I doubt the editors would accept any query for one from a first-time writer. I'd try to get in one or two lower-level scenarios before hitting them with the big guns.ALl right, time for someone to cut me to ribbons. This one is my first and got shot down because "it doesn't suit our current needs". I'd appreciate some feedback. Oh, and yes, I do see the parallels between this and Savage Tide.
“The Isle of Tearer” or “The Well of Sorrow” (working titles)
An epic city / wilderness adventure for four 25th level characters.
Well, I've sent one other epic level query their way that I've yet to hear back from. If it gets canned I'll go for something a little lower. I'm a big fan of high level games and ya just don't see enough of them that go beyond 20th. One recent dungeon that could be a good epic level is "Into the Wormcrawl Fissure". It's really well written and if ya take out the Balakarde factor, Dragotha would beat the bejesus outta any party below 20.
Thanx for taking the time to read my query, people.
Chris Wissel - WerePlatypus wrote "The Curse of Lannisport" back on Mon, Jan 16, 2006.
Chris, I lifted your idea almost exactly. I found some maps from WoTC, and tweaked your adventure to taste. I ran it over the last 4 weeks. It went great!
I set the adventure in south central Sterich along the Davish river. My PCs, feeling charitable, immediately jumped on board to help the villagers. The funny thing about a town of deaf and near deaf folks was that one of my PCs has a similar quirk. She's hard of hearing and tends to be loud anyway. It took the heroes a while to get the fact that the townsfolk weren't responding to her impairment but there own. The humor here stopped the game with laughter for about 45 minutes. This eneded night one.
The PCs travelled to the music library to be assaulted by the occupants (a hermit and his musical "band of bugbears"). This got more laughs for two reasons: a real "band" (instruments and all) of bugbears is just too funny, and that our groups bards were just paralyzed with astonishment that the hermit was a old and nasty band teacher from their pasts in Keoland (also his magical earhorn gave him such a bonus to save versus their musical abilities that they had little effect on him). The prisoner that they freed turned out to be Fedorik Eddri, former ruler of Idee (Naerie), fight 15, Bard 1. He was simply wandering the western Flanaess on a pilgrimage when he was caught. He's a mystery for my group; he mostly watches the PCs and plays inept. The PCs gained the music manuscript. This ended night two.
After getting the music they set out to acquire the organ. This was fun and simple. I made one of the three harpies the archer subtype. They won and reassembled the organ (yes, a PC had the craft skill necessary, go figure). Soon they managed thru skill (and amazing rolls) to teach the deaf to sing. The curse lifted and the Maestro awoke. His zombies (former students and faculty) attacked the village, but were quickly defeated. This ended night three.
They travelled to destroy the Maestro at his ruined academy. For him, I used the lich template but removed all spell ability. He was basically hand to hand combatant with immunity to sonic (bard) abilities. After defeating his Groaning Spirit wife (banshee), they battled him. Eventually they re-entombed him since they could not destroy him, and sacked the school of lost instruments and music manuscripts.
It was fun and funny, and a nice change of pace for the group, if not the bards. If you want any specific details just ask me.
Cheers, and thanks!
I think "Quicksilver Hourglass" was from a first time writer.I thought the query was very interesting and well-done. Aside from Shroomy's comments, though, I think there might've been one really big knock against it. Given the difficulty of writing an effective epic-level adventure, I doubt the editors would accept any query for one from a first-time writer. I'd try to get in one or two lower-level scenarios before hitting them with the big guns.
Yup, that was my first published adventure, so, No, established history with the editors is not a prerequisite (although the writer's guidelines indicate otherwise, unless they've been updated recently).
Luz, I enjoyed reading your proposal; coming up with threats deserving of epic PC's attention is not easy. One suggestion would be to ease off on the level of detail -- I don't think you need to devote a paragraph to each monster/encounter, but you do need to make clear to the editors what's cool about your proposal.
I think "Quicksilver Hourglass" was from a first time writer.I thought the query was very interesting and well-done. Aside from Shroomy's comments, though, I think there might've been one really big knock against it. Given the difficulty of writing an effective epic-level adventure, I doubt the editors would accept any query for one from a first-time writer. I'd try to get in one or two lower-level scenarios before hitting them with the big guns.
Yup, that was my first published adventure, so, No, established history with the editors is not a prerequisite (although the writer's guidelines indicate otherwise, unless they've been updated recently).
Luz, I enjoyed reading your proposal; coming up with threats deserving of epic PC's attention is not easy. One suggestion would be to ease off on the level of detail -- I don't think you need to devote a paragraph to each monster/encounter, but you do need to make clear to the editors what's cool about your proposal.
Thanks for the comments, Anson. I appreciate you taking the time to read my query. Yeah, it kinda has that 1st time proposal "squeeze as much into it as I can" feel, doesn't it? I mentioned on another thread that i think its important not to get too hung up on the little details and just stick to the main ones, I think I'll try that on my next query.
By the way, this proposal is based on a dungeon I made to prep my players for Quicksilver Hourglass. They're not done yet but I'm looking forward to playing yours.
Thanks for the comments, Anson. I appreciate you taking the time to read my query. Yeah, it kinda has that 1st time proposal "squeeze as much into it as I can" feel, doesn't it? I mentioned on another thread that i think its important not to get too hung up on the little details and just stick to the main ones, I think I'll try that on my next query.
By the way, this proposal is based on a dungeon I made to prep my players for Quicksilver Hourglass. They're not done yet but I'm looking forward to playing yours.
As I said earlier, I definitely enjoyed reading it! Good luck with running Hourglass!
Looking for playtester feedback
My wife and I just finished an adventure manuscript that's due for submission mid-Nov. It's a generic fantasy, 1st level, pseudo-horror adventure. My normal playtest group has other personal commitments, so I'm looking for someone to run this adventure in the next few weeks and give me constructive criticism on playability, player interest, etc. in time for me to make changes prior to submission. If anyone has the time and inclination, please email me at timconnors at ieee dot org. I'd really appreciate it. I want to hand out maybe two copies, so please only email if you think you can really give me playtest feedback. Thanks everyone!
My Critical Threat, it died faster at the hands of the render than it ever did during playtest, wait a minute, it never got defeated during playtest.....damn that render!
SHIKK’T, THE SOUTHGATE STRANGLER
By Maurice de Mare
Shikk’t has come far for a Choker. He’s faster, stronger and larger, much larger, than any Choker before him but Shikk’t would trade it all for the chance to be normal. For Shikk’t is an anomaly among aberrations, the normal coloration of a Choker ranges from mottled gray to stony brown yet Shikk’t’s a whitish pink. Thus handicapped by nature Shikk’t barely survived in the lightless tunnels of the Underdark. For years he struggled against the impending doom of starvation until finally Tharizdun considered him worthy. Shikk’t now loyally serves Malduinir, the leader of a local Tharizdun cult, for he is Shikk’t’s savior and deliverer.
In the Underdark Shikk’t was weak and highly visible, but on the surface he is strong and if he covers his pinkish form with clothing and hides his face in a sufficiently large cowl he is invisible to the throng of mankind. Shikk’t quickly discovered that the skills he learned while scouring the Underdark for food could easily be applied to the winding alleys and streets of Southgate, the city’s poor quarter, to Shikk’t the streets are half-open tunnels and in these tunnels he reigns supreme.
In the years since his arrival to Southgate, Shikk’t has cut a swath through the population of the quarter. The years spent in the Underdark and the ever-present hunger he experienced there has left Shikk’t with an appetite that is insatiable. The needs of the cult, sacrificial victims mainly, add to Shikk’t’s predations. The people of Southgate attribute their missing and murdered to the elusive ‘Southgate Strangler’. The increase of missing persons and the discovery of half-eaten corpses has attracted the interest of the city’s authorities. Southgate’s watch is dangerously undermanned but they have investigated the ‘Southgate Strangler’ thoroughly. Based upon their investigation the watch believes that the ‘Southgate Strangler’ is actually a team of murderers, they have eyewitness reports that describe a halfling assaulting victims. Later reports describe a human using the same method operandi in it’s assault, the ‘Southgate Strangler’ literally jumped upon the victim from a building and then proceeded to throttle his victim. Furthermore, the watch believes that the halfling team member is the one with cannibalistic cravings as they have reports of the halfling sized strangler chewing upon his victim before disappearing into the night.
But Shikk’t is increasingly becoming a victim of his own success, only fools brave the streets and alleys of Southgate alone at night these days. Shikk’t is experiencing hunger once more and the cult isn’t receiving its share of sacrifices as well. In the years before Shikk’t was forbidden by Malduinir to hunt in the other quarters, that would only elicit unwanted attention Malduinir’s fledgling cult could do without, but now Malduinir has given Shikk’t the order to expand his hunting grounds to cover the entire city. Malduinir is certain that by unleashing Shikk’t on the unsuspecting masses his cult will grow both in number and power, for only cultists will be save from the ‘Southgate Strangler’.
APPEARANCE
Without his clothes, Shikk’t looks like a very large and extremely tough looking Choker, albeit with a pinkish complexion. Shikk’t is deeply ashamed about his appearance though and covers his body in black silks. Shikk’t hides his face in the deep recesses of the cowl of his cloak. Although Shikk’t takes great pride in the size of his tentacles, he carefully covers them beneath his cloak when he is out prowling the streets. The only indications that Shikk’t isn’t human are his uncovered feet and the way he moves, Shikk’t moves with a grace and speed that is definitely inhuman, to an observer Shikk’t just flows across the street like water.
TACTICS
Shikk’t may have come far for a Choker but his tactics haven’t evolved beyond the ambush his kind favors. Hiding above archways or on rooftops Shikk’t waits until suitable prey passes along and then he targets the last person passing him, with his great reach Shikk’t then just needs to grab his unfortunate target, lift him off the ground and squeeze. Another favorite tactic is the snatch and run. Shikk’t jumps his intended victim, grabs him, and then retreats by climbing upwards to safety. Shikk’t knows that few can match his climbing speed, which gives him ample time to strangle the life out of his victim once he is out of striking range. Shikk’t’s favorite maneuver though is the double choke, targeting his two weakest opponents, he first softens them up with his hand crossbow and it’s poisoned bolts. Then he moves in for the kill, with just one tentacle each he holds his opponents high and applies pressure, all the while laughing maniacally.
DEVELOPMENT
PC’s can encounter Shikk’t in a number of situations all related to Shikk’t’s current role as cult assassin, protector and provider of sacrificial victims. Maybe they’ve agreed to protect a former acolyte of the cult, the acolyte can identify various members of the cult. In response, Malduinir has dispatched Shikk’t to deal with the apostate. Or the PC’s have identified the location of Tharizdun’s temple and Shikk’t stands between them and victory. The PC’s could also be interested in the bounty placed upon the ‘Southgate Strangler’s’ head. Even after the destruction of Tharizdun’s cult, any organization or individual willing to employ Shikk’t, and his unique brand of muscle, can easily adopt him into their service, for his needs are simple and easily satisfied. Eventually Shikk’t will tire of life on the surface and he will return to the lightless tunnels of the Underdark, trying to carve out a kingdom for himself. The denizens of the Underdark may be unable to deal with such an able and voracious stalker, the assistance of the PC’s might be required.
SHIKK’T CR 9
Male advanced choker rogue 5
Monster Manual 34
CE Medium aberration
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60ft; Spot +7, Listen +7
Language Undercommon
AC 19, touch 15, flat-footed 16; uncanny dodge
hp 165 (17 HD)
Fort +10 Ref +13 Will +11; evasion
Spd 20 ft. climb 10 ft.
Melee tentacle +21/+16/+11 (1d6+9/19-20) or tentacle +21/+16/+11 (1d6+9/19-20) and tentacle +21 (1d6+9/19-20)
Ranged mwk hand crossbow +16 (1d4/19-20 plus poison)
Space 5 ft. Reach 10 ft.
Base Atk +12; Grp +25
Atk Options Constrict 1d6+9, Improved Grab, Power Attack, Sneak Attack +3d6
Abilities Str 28, Dex 16, Con 20, Int 4, Wis 14, Cha 6
SQ quickness, trapfinding, trapsense +1
Feats Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical (tentacle), Improved InitiativeB, Improved Natural Attack (tentacle), Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Stealthy
Skills Climb +25, Hide +21, Listen +7, Move Silently +16, Spot +7
Possessions masterwork hand crossbow with 20 bolts, amulet of health +2, bracers of armor +1, cloak of elvenkind, ring of protection +1, 6 doses of medium spider venom (Fort DC 14, 1d4 Str/1d4 Str)
Hah! Chokers are very popular it seems.
damn copycats ;->
http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20061110a
Name: SHIKK’T, THE SOUTHGATE STRANGLER
Occupation: THE SOUTHGATE STRANGLER
You take it from here Doorlock Holmes....
Yeah chokers are all over the place these da-ggak! ::THUD, THUD, THUD, THUD, THUD::
Well thanks GGG,
I will pay more attention to my titles, although I've got this distinct feeling that the title wasn't the reason it got rejected. You know, an editor could have easily adjusted that snafu.
Let the critiquing commence anew.
My Critical Threat ... SHIKK’T, THE SOUTHGATE STRANGLER
There was a lot I liked about this Darkjoy. The idea of a Choker predating the streets instead of the Underdark is fun. And the Tactics and Development sections are imaginative.
I suspect the biggest reason this didn't make the cut is the new Critical Threat policy James S. posted (which of course you couldn't have known about because it arrived after your submission) :
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/dungeon/generalDiscussion/isThereABlac kHoleInTheSubmissionsRoomAtPaizo&page=28
On Critical Threats: In thinking about the Critical Threat section, we've come to the conclusion that the best use of this forum is to focus on "iconic" villains
...<snip>...
In short: instead of saying "this NPC is cool, I'll make him the villain in my game," we want people to say, "Okay, I need a ____" and then open Dungeon to find exactly what they were looking for, fleshed out and ready to rock.
I'm not particularly qualified to give a critique -- I'm just a reader. So bearing that in mind, here are my 2c. Personally, my biggest issues with Shikk't were as follows:
I once lived in a place called Southgate. (Did I mention these were my personal issues?)An Int 4 creature that repeatedly murders and kidnaps yet evades a thorough investigation by the city watch is stretching credulity for me.
Here are some other minor niggles that I noticed but are probably not major issues.
CR 9 seems a little low for a challenge like this. I'm not too familiar with the rules for advancing monsters so take this with a pinch of salt. 5 class levels plus 9 extra monster HD should surely add more than 7 to the CR?
He’s faster
No he's still Spd 20ft. :-)
...halfling sized strangler...
He's Medium size.
PC’s can encounter Shikk’t...
...it’s poisoned bolts
and a few other places. "PCs" and "its": i.e. no apostrophe. I vaguely remember that correct use of apostrophes is a hot-button issue for at least one of the staffers.
For Shikk’t is an anomaly among aberrations,* the normal coloration of a Choker ranges from mottled gray to stony brown yet Shikk’t’s a whitish pink.
Where I've marked an asterisk above, I believe you need something stronger than a comma, e.g. a period/full stop, semicolon, dash, or conjunction. There were several other places where I noticed this, summarized below:
"poor quarter,* to Shikk’t" "team of murderers,* they have" "it’s assault,* the ‘Southgate Strangler’" "own success,* only fools" "he moves,* Shikk’t moves" "passing him,* with his" "double choke,* targeting his" "the kill,* with just" "the cult,* the acolyte" "voracious stalker,* the assistance"
method operandi
"modus operandi" or "method of operation" maybe?
for only cultists will be save from the ‘Southgate Strangler’.
"saved" not "save"?
The negatives I've listed run longer than the positives, but that's not a reflection on your submission. Rather I've focussed on the negatives because I suspect they are more useful to you. Hope your next submission makes it past the render!
Meds,
Thanks for the feedback.
advancing monster sometimes is quite cheap CR wise, for an aberration it is only 1 cr every 4 hd! I do grant that Shikk't is a very tough CR 9.
on the PCs and its quiestion:
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_apost.html says:
Don't use apostrophes for possessive pronouns or for noun plurals.
Apostrophes should not be used with possessive pronouns because possessive pronouns already show possession -- they don't need an apostrophe. His, her, its, my, yours, ours are all possessive pronouns.
MS-Word also gives me its, so I am inclined to use that.
Lengthy sentences, yeah, I really need to stop doing that, but I can't ;>
I was all freaked out for a moment, thinking I'd done an extensive analysis of a post and had no memory of doing so. Then I realized you weren't using my nickname, there was another poster named "Meds." Whew!
-Amber, aka Meddy
“GAAK!!” CRUNCH!! The Render made short work of my first Wandering Monster effort. No explanation, just crunch. Only one thing we can do. Go through my offering's pockets for loose change!
I proposed this critter as an alternative to the usual rank and file low-level undead I see used far too often. In retrospect, it should have been at least a CR 2 monster. Its principal fear power is too powerful . . . and too unwieldy. Blast! Here it is:
CAMPAIGN WORKBOOK WANDERING MONSTER[b]
A horrifying humanoid cadaver springs from darkness. A ghastly expression of pure terror twists its face. It skitters forward freakishly fast with eerie, almost insectile movements – aberrant motions seemingly impossible for humanoid joints. It clutches a dagger dripping with dark liquid and emits a shuddering cry so otherworldly, so filled with horror, that it freezes your breath in your chest.
[b]
Always NE Medium oundead
Init +2; Senses Darkvision 60 feet; Listen +6, Spot +6
Language any known in life (usually Common)
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AC 14, touch 12, flat-footed 12
hp 13 (2 HD)
Immune undead immunities
Fort +0 Ref +2 Will +3
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Spd 40 ft.
Melee dagger +2 (1d4+1)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +1; Grp +2
Special Atks create spawn, darkening, frightful gaze (DC 12), startling attack (DC 12), unsettling corpse (DC 12)
Spell-Like Abilities (only 10% of frights have spell-like abilities (they are CR 2 monsters)) (CL 5th)
At will-obscuring mist
3/day-bane (DC 12), darkness, silence
1/day-cause fear (DC 12), deeper darkness, hold person (DC 13), invisibility
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Abilities Str 13, Dex 15, Con –, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 14
SQ undead traits
Feats Stealthy
Skills Climb +5, Hide +14*, Listen +5, Move Silently +14*, Spot +4
Advancement 3-6 HD
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Create Spawn (Su) Any humanoid scared to death by a fright’s frightful gaze has a 50% chance of rising as a fright 1d4 hours later.
Darkening (Sp) As a swift action, a fright can halve the radius of both bright and shadowy illumination from any single light source within 100 feet except daylight, spells of 3rd level or higher, or magic items of CL 5 or greater. This darkening lasts 2d6 rounds or until dismissed, during which candles sputter, torches gutter and smoke, and lanterns waver and flicker in an unnerving fashion.
Frightful Gaze (Su) Become shaken for 2d6 rounds, 60-foot range, DC 12 Will save negates. Every round requires a new save whether or not the victim previously saved successfully. Each failed save advances the victim’s fear state: from normal to shaken, to frightened, to panicked, to paralyzed, and finally to death. Each new fear state (except death) renews the 2d6-round duration. Two consecutive successful saves stop this fear progression and prevent the victim from being affected anew for 24 hours by any fright’s frightful gaze (or by the unsettling-corpse quality, see below). Nonetheless, two consecutive successful saves don’t remove an already existing fear state. All save DCs are Charisma-based.
Startling Attack (Su) If a fright makes a successful melee attack when its victim was unaware of its presence or location before the attack, the victim must make a DC 12 Will save or advance to the next fear state (from normal to shaken, to frightened, to panicked, to paralyzed, or to death) for 2d6 rounds (except death). This advance in fear state is separate from, and in addition to, any advancement caused by the fright’s frightful gaze. (Note that the fright can only use its startling attack when the victim is unaware of its presence, not in all other circumstance when its victim might be denied its Dex bonus to AC, such as when blinded, grappling, or stunned.) The save DC is Charisma-based.
Unsettling Corpse (Su) Even when a fright is slain in combat, its face continues to appear supernaturally terrifying unless the head is completely destroyed. Likewise, the face of any humanoid slain by a fright appears supernaturally terrifying. Anyone who sees such a face must make a DC 12 Will save or become shaken for 2d6 rounds. This unsettling-corpse quality cannot, however, induce a fear state worse than shaken. The save DC is Charisma-based
Skills Frights receive a +6 racial bonus on hide and move silently skill checks.
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Frights are the undead cadavers of humanoids literally scared to death. The essence of overwhelming horror that killed them twists their bodies into moving, predatory expression of that terror. They hunger only to terrify others to death or, failing that, to torture and slay them in grisly fashion. Frights are cunning, stealthy, and vicious beyond compare.
One out of ten frights connects more deeply than other frights to primal fonts of horror and acquires spell-like abilities. Treat these as CR 2 monsters.
Frights prefer scaring victims to death to simply dicing them up. They’re weak in direct combat, so they use speed, cunning, and stealth to maximize their frightful gaze attacks. They reveal their ghastly visage at range and then dart back into hiding, using their darkening ability to conceal themselves. Against multiple opponents, they employ tactics limiting their foes’ ability to close for melee, like placing difficult terrain between themselves and their foes. They lead or scare foes into traps that limit or disable movement, like pits, bear traps, or even caltrops. They strive to isolate a single foe and then attack from hiding, using their startling attack. They are capable of exercising extraordinary patience when stalking and tormenting victims.
In melee, frights use simple, light, slashing weapons, like sickles, carving knives (daggers), or meat cleavers (treat as sickles). Where poison is accessible, they poison their blades. They prefer poisons inflicting Str or Dex damage (like giant wasp poison or monstrous centipede poison), which don’t kill their victims outright.
Most frights were spawned by other frights. Sometimes, however, a humanoid terrified to death by other means rises spontaneously as a fright. Victims of a sea hag’s evil eye attack occasionally suffer this fate, but such supernatural catalysts are not necessary. Anyone who dies in the throes of overwhelming terror can become a fright. Scholars theorize that victims with strong imaginations but weak willpower are particularly vulnerable to this necromantic metamorphosis.
Environment: Frights haunt civilization’s shadows, from dilapidated farmhouses or abandoned root cellars in isolated hamlets to the sewers or ghettos of metropolises. They’re active at night, disliking daylight (although not injured by it). They lair in dark, claustrophobic places, often instinctively selecting sites of prior atrocities. They collect small, bladed weapons, improvised torture implements, and severed body parts as trophies. Beyond these grotesqueries, however, one finds only incidental items of interest in their lairs.
Typical Physical Characteristics: All frights have visages contorted by terror and yet unmistakably dead. Their bodies likewise twist into freakish parodies of mortality. Joints turned unnaturally give them outlandish gaits. Even so, all frights move preternaturally fast.
Most frights are solitary. Some pack together because groups terrify victims more easily. When assembled, frights coordinate actions well, creating elaborate contrivances and even subtle schemes to terrorize communities over prolonged periods of time. They’re nonetheless competitive, each striving to create the most brazen masterpiece of horror and death.
Frights occasionally accompany allips, whose insanity intrigues them and whose wisdom drain compliments their frightful-gaze attacks.
Knowledge (Arcana)
DC Result
13 This is a fright, an undead humanoid whose appearance causes fear. This result reveals all undead traits.
18 Continuously viewing a fright is so terrifying that one can become paralyzed or even literally die of fright. Slain victims’ corpses can also be terrifying to look upon.
23 Frights are weak combatants that prefer slaying victims with their horrifying appearance. They shrink from open battle, employing stealth, surprise, and uncanny speed as tactics.
28 About half of the humanoids scared to death by a fright can become frights shortly thereafter. Not all frights spawned by other frights, however. Any humanoid literally scared to death, or consumed by terrifying fear when she dies, can rise as a fright after death.
There is an unwritten rule (which I guess I will write): Three (special abilities) and you are out.
Not counting the "spawn ability" or the "racial skill bonus" you still have more than three (spell-likes, creepy cadaver, darkening, etc...). DMs don't usually like overly complex monsters, especially at low levels. You get some leeway if the concept is sound, but too many options on one beasty makes a DM's head explode. And yes, you are right, it is too tough for it's CR. It has low Hit Die but it its scarier than a ghast. Frightful gaze while novel is too complex with everything else you have going on. The every round save or a possible 12 rounds of fear effect is just nasty, especially when recent design theory is looking to quick one-round stuns and such rather than the fun-sapping 2d6 rounds of wetting yourself or taking random actions or whatever.
You might want to trim the fat and try him out as a CR 5-6 beasty comparable to a ghast.
GGG
There is an unwritten rule (which I guess I will write): Three (special abilities) and you are out.
Thanks, GGG. Of course. Now that you say it, that's obvious. I guess that's why it's unwritten.
If only the unwritten were obvious to the less experienced.
You might want to trim the fat and try him out as a CR 5-6 beasty comparable to a ghast.
Right. I'm still taken with the idea of an undead whose weapon is simply scarying the living to death. It's an undead that works like a perfect horror movie. It scares you a little more, and then a little more, and then a little more, until it unhinges you and stops your heart altogether. Simple in concept, more challenging in application (at least for those of us still learning the unwritten rules).
Any more such rules?There is an unwritten rule (which I guess I will write): Three (special abilities) and you are out.
GGG
Heathansson, why would you, or anyone think I would know anything more about monster design or even three-part arcs for that matter...
;)
GGG
Thanks for the feedback.
You're welcome!
advancing monster sometimes is quite cheap CR wise, for an aberration it is only 1 cr every 4 hd! I do grant that Shikk't is a very tough CR 9.
Sorry about that. My bad.
on the PCs and its quiestion:...
Sorry I wasn't clear. I think we're saying essentially the same thing here:
The 4 instances of "PC's" should have read "PCs".Both instances of "it's" should have read "its".
MS-Word will happily let us get away with either.
Lengthy sentences, yeah, I really need to stop doing that, but I can't ;>
Heh, I have that problem too. (Some of my worst run-on sentences are still lurking on this very thread.) However, for my money, this is not just a style issue, but a grammar issue, i.e. multiple main verbs in the same sentence. You might want to seek a second opinion though.
I was all freaked out for a moment, thinking I'd done an extensive analysis of a post and had no memory of doing so. Then I realized you weren't using my nickname, there was another poster named "Meds." Whew!
-Amber, aka Meddy
Heh, that's unintentional, I swear. Note to self: must think up some other way to take credit for Amber's published works ;-)
I'm not much of a rules/crunch person, so I'll just say that I think GGG nailed it.
On the fluff side though, I like the concept and flavor a lot. You have a clear and vivid writing style. The idea of this 'scared-to-death' meme propagating itself through a community is fun. The "Unsettling Corpse" ability gave me Keep on the Borderlands flashbacks of carrying around a Medusa's head in order to 'stone' other monsters (dang, has it really been 25 years?).
Is a low-HD, solitary undead a problematic niche? I suspect a cleric is going to turn this guy on round 1 or 2, before the frightful gaze chain gets a chance to become interesting. A solitary ghoul (the closest analog I guess) is a fun encounter but he can incapacitate multiple PCs quickly.
Ashenvale,
As GGG said this really is a complex monster you created.
What you could do is realign the fear effects on the cause fear spell, 1d4 rounds duration, everyone above 5hd is immune to effect.
I would seriously consider removing the spell like abilitiies, there is a rule against % I believe.
Your DC's are off I think, 10 + (HD / 2) + CHR = 13.
The greenhag half-troll/vampire druid//cancer mage is friggin' awesome, Luz.
Thanks, Heathansson. I had a lot of fun making her up and drawing her. Even her name,Refin'nej...spell it backwards and its my ex-girlfriend!
Nah, nothing like that. Just needed a name for a ripe ol' hag and that's what popped into my head. Its funny how many real people I think of when coming up with D&D names.
I come up with a cool scene, and then I build around it making the rationale for why the scene is happening as I go, trying to make sure that the other scenes, NPCs or encounters are just as exciting. Some queries take an hour or two, but others that don't quite gel as quickly are put on the side for later.
GGG
A belated thanks to GGG, Meds, and Darkjoy. I really appreciate your comments on my Frights wandering monster!
I'm still enamored with a low-level, easily turned, weak combatant undead creature whose terrifying visage can nonetheless scare you to death if you keep failing your saves. It strikes me as a good alternative to the usual CR 1 undead choices. Moreover, such a creature spices up the whole escalating-fear concept. Why must the progression stop at panicked in all situations? If the adversary is terrifying enough, why can't it push its victim beyond the panicked state, first paralyzing him with fright (as mummies can), and then ultimately terrify him to death (like a Sea Hag's evil eye or a phantasmal killer spell can) as progressive steps in the ordinary fear escalation after panicked?
Anyway, I submitted an adventure query that includes Frights before I submitted Frights to the Wandering Monster column. If the adventure query makes it past The Render, now I'll know how to clean up my Frights to work much more smoothly. So thanks!
Another casualty of mine:
http://www.geocities.com/daemonslicer/writings/Pit_fighters.pdf
The render thought it was "interesting". Probably in a high-concept, poor execution kind of way ;<
enjoy
I liked the undead champion.
I liked the undead champion.
Your appreciation is appreciated.
I have written for Dragon a couple of times and am targeting Dungeon. You have the right attitutude (thick skin/patience) and the editors of Paizo are unlike most editors I have worked with at other magazines: patient and willing to mentor. However, to honor them, groom queries/your work. No spell errors, no plot points that lead no where, etc. Send them only the best you have. And for goodness sakes, read the guidelines! The no "PCs stumble upon..." is straight out of them. Good luck to us all and hail D&D!
So I have fairly thick skin, and I'm a firm believer that the best way to improve is to learn from mistakes. Of course, I'd prefer to learn from the mistakes of others. :D Here's the query I had sent in this past summer that I recently received a rejection letter for. I can spot a few things that would make it less than appealing (I'll add them last). But there's also a lot of folks here who I'm sure could offer me some tips and advice on how I could've done a better job on this query. One quick comment - this was written before the "rules" changed to allow two pages, single spaced; so if you think it seem a bit short, that could be why.
Anything at all that would help me (or others) learn from my mistakes is appreciated!
The Exterminators
General Information“The Exterminators” is a generic world adventure designed for first level characters. Geographically, the adventure requires a small island in the middle of a lake or river, and a small town nearby. The adventure should be fairly easy to scale upwards several levels.
Plot Summary
A patron hires the players to travel to a nearby island in order to help rid the island of a vermin infestation, as well as other minor pests. Alternatively, the players could happen to stumble into the adventure on their own, without a patron hiring them. The characters travel to the location of the island. They must find a way to reach the island. While on the island, they encounter numerous vermin such as rats and insects. They’ll also encounter several wild animals. In the center of the island is a crumbling structure. Some animals and vermin use this building for shelter, and while examining the building, the players find a stairway leading down to the basement of the building. Down here, they encounter a small cult dedicated to Nerull. The cult is actively in the process of sacrificing a young farm boy to their dark god. The players defeat the cult and rescue the farmer, returning him safely home. Examination...
Reading Pete's reply to Zherog I realized that this thread is a year old.
So I am left wondering: have we gotten better?
Have any queries been accepted? Or better yet, published, since the start of this thread?
Reading Pete's reply to Zherog I realized that this thread is a year old.
So I am left wondering: have we gotten better?
Have any queries been accepted? Or better yet, published, since the start of this thread?
I started reading this thread around page 2 or so, when I thought about sending in some of my ideas to Dungeon...
So far out of 5 queries that have met the Gatekeeper:
3 got shot down by the Gatekeeper
2 made it to the meeting
Out of the 2 that made it to the meeting, one was axed as too similiar to something else that was accepted, and the other made it to a manuscript (but no word back on it yet)
* I hadn't really written or submitted anything since the summer, since I've been a little distracted with a new baby/new job/new home... but now that our daughter is settling into a schedule and I am having a bit of free time, I'm planning on finishing up some concepts that have been sitting around in my notebook for a while.
Plus I was encouraged by James Jacob's post on the Black Hole thread recently that they are still accepting queries for the winter meeting, since it was delayed due to the freak snowstorms and the holidays. (I'm in Vancouver, BC, and we've had the same unusual weather too)
I have five queries, but I have not heard a peep from the Gatekeeper, one way or the other. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not.
I have the feeling that beyond, conventions, holidays, weather, and Adventure Paths that there is also the issue of the new OGL modules Paizo is set to release later this year as well. Considering it is basically the equivalent to publishing another AP-sized adventure (or more) I can only suspect they are a bit behind and have yet to go through the mound of adventure queries. As I recall James Jacobs mentioned that Dungeon gets about 60(?) queries a month.... By that figure they should have a bit over 300 by now, of which they may pick about 5% of, which coincidentally, is the percentage of queries I have in the pile this time around. ;) If the pile reaches a critical mass, I believe it becomes a sentient monster with all the class levels and templates that were mentioned in the queries it is composed of.
GGG
A potentially stupid question but can anyone post a query here for some critque? I've got an idea I thought about sending to Dungeon, but wanted to get some feedback first. I haven't read through every thread or Dungeon mag so I don't want to send in a repeat. Thanks much.
Posting a query before it has been given an official rejection, or for accepted queries before they have been actually published in the magazine is generally not allowed.
That said, there are plenty of folks here who might be willing to look over a query for a prospective writer... and if you search the messageboards you may be able to find the post that compiles all the advice from the many dungeon query threads into a single message.
- Ashavan
EDIT: I should say that posting of queries to PUBLIC forums is generally not allowed. Having someone review and edit your query is actually encouraged, as the editors want the best queries they can get.
A potentially stupid question but can anyone post a query here for some critque? I've got an idea I thought about sending to Dungeon, but wanted to get some feedback first. I haven't read through every thread or Dungeon mag so I don't want to send in a repeat. Thanks much.
You should only really post things that have already been declined by Paizo on these very public boards. That said you can get a lot of insight on what not to do here.
GGG
just a quick bump, to pull this super-useful thread out of the archive...