I just bought Complete Adventurer, and the player of a 3rd level rogue likes the concept of a spellthief.
The question is how to handle this - I have two choices:
1) Complete conversion from 3rd level rogue to 3rd level spellthief - Since the Spellthief has on par abilities as a rogue, it shouldn't be too much of a logic stretch (just assume he wasn't using any powers till now). What on a spellthief got gimped to keep it the same power as a rogue?
2) Have him multiclass. The problem is that since he is 3rd level rogue, he is going to be gimped with the 10% EXP penalty. I could waive the penalty, but I'm not sure about the balance in his case (or fairness to the other players).
Thoughts?
Also, I'm running DMGenie, but I'm not up to creating a class definition... Anyone have a spellthief class definition available?
I just bought Complete Adventurer, and the player of a 3rd level rogue likes the concept of a spellthief.
2) Have him multiclass. The problem is that since he is 3rd level rogue, he is going to be gimped with the 10% EXP penalty. I could waive the penalty, but I'm not sure about the balance in his case (or fairness to the other players).Thoughts?
Actually, the only way that the 10% penalty would occur is if the 3rd level rogue is not a human, half-elf, or halfling.
I will typically NOT allow a player to just switch all his base classes to non-base classes because something new and shiney showed up from his FLGS. I will allow him to break in the character at a comperable level should his current character die - but I frown on suicide mission just to get the PC killed off to facilitate the change. IMO, it's a bad policy to start off PC's and then allow players to swap out stuff they've already taken due to new products. That way leads to eventual heavy-handedness by the DM to put a stop to the madness :)
Actually, the only way that the 10% penalty would occur is if the 3rd level rogue is not a human, half-elf, or halfling.
Whups, I forgot to mention that the character is an elf...
So, the 10% does apply.
I don't think the 10% is too bad of a deal. Going from 3-4th level is 4,000 xp sp that is a 400xp cost. Not overly stiff, then he can earn xp freely. You can omit the penalty if you want but one of the benefits of playing the human of 1/2 elf is the multiclassing benefit and that should be something to consider when creating a character.
Good luck with the spellthief I find it an interesting class, I am looking to play one in the not too distant future.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I'd let him swap out and just play it as if he's always been a spellthief. It's nice when you're a player and you want to try something new to have your DM accomodate that desire. I generally allow my players to change around unused abilities or skills if they have a good non-metagame reason. If nothing else, I'd let him retire the old character and bring in a new one. My guess is that multi-classing won't make him happy even if you do ditch the 10% penalty.
Sebastian
I'd let him swap out and just play it as if he's always been a spellthief. It's nice when you're a player and you want to try something new to have your DM accomodate that desire. I generally allow my players to change around unused abilities or skills if they have a good non-metagame reason. If nothing else, I'd let him retire the old character and bring in a new one. My guess is that multi-classing won't make him happy even if you do ditch the 10% penalty.Sebastian
Yeah, my take was to migrate (If he MC's then he has to take rogue and spellthief in lockstep, and I don't think he'd be that happy with that).
As far as scratching his old character and let him make a new one, well that's always a possibility but his character is central to some subplots right now (namely, I'm having too much fun playing his NPC brat sister as a foil).
Fortunately, he hasn't used any skills that a rogue has and a spellthief doesn't, so I may be able to work with it. I just need to get my rulebook back from him and see.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Yeah, my take was to migrate (If he MC's then he has to take rogue and spellthief in lockstep, and I don't think he'd be that happy with that).As far as scratching his old character and let him make a new one, well that's always a possibility but his character is central to some subplots right now (namely, I'm having too much fun playing his NPC brat sister as a foil).
Fortunately, he hasn't used any skills that a rogue has and a spellthief doesn't, so I may be able to work with it. I just need to get my rulebook back from him and see.
A reboot sounds like it makes everyone happy - I'd say go for it even if it doesn't work 100%.
I'm a big fan of the reboot every so often. It helps breath new life into old characters. I had a campaign once where the character personalities were all strong, but the stats grew stale during a hiatus (during which 3.5 was released). Letting everyone retool their characters really reinvigorated the game.
Sebastian
The only problem with a reboot (and the reason there aren't any rules for it in the game) is that the character loses abilities and skills he has been using in the game (such as the +2d6 sneak attack), his saving throws change, as does his skill ranks and skill points. Rebooting is fine, but its goes against roleplaying logic and realism (I know that sounds weird in a game with dragons and wizards, but its true). Also it sets a precendent that other players may try to abuse. I mean if I was in your campaign and you allowed someone to reboot their class I would probably try to do likewise. Where do you draw the line without looking like your'e playing favorites or upsetting the balance of your campaign? The traditional method may be nasty, but its fairer and more realistic than a reebot.
Yes, I agree, which is why I would have been very careful to ensure that all skills were at the same levels as before (even if points get sunk in cross-classes)
However, it's moot, the player changed his mind, and might just decide to MC as wizard at some point.
Thanks for the opinions though.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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The only problem with a reboot (and the reason there aren't any rules for it in the game) is that the character loses abilities and skills he has been using in the game (such as the +2d6 sneak attack), his saving throws change, as does his skill ranks and skill points. Rebooting is fine, but its goes against roleplaying logic and realism (I know that sounds weird in a game with dragons and wizards, but its true). Also it sets a precendent that other players may try to abuse. I mean if I was in your campaign and you allowed someone to reboot their class I would probably try to do likewise. Where do you draw the line without looking like your'e playing favorites or upsetting the balance of your campaign? The traditional method may be nasty, but its fairer and more realistic than a reebot.
*shrug* Dracula has different powers every time he appears in a story. Spider-Man went from having mechanical webs to biological webs in the movies. Granted, these are all examples of a character moving from one medium to another rather than continuing on an old storyline. If Spider-Man suddenly changed from mechanical webs to biological webs in the comic, that would be pretty jarring. The campaign I used the technique on was basically restarting.
That being said, I don't see any of the things above as an issue though. If he had been casting fireball and then suddenly he couldn't, you'd want to come up with an explanation ("gee, that fight with the beholder crippled my ability to use magic for some reason" or "After seeing what fire does to forests, I can't possibly use it again"). But if a character has become marginally better or worse at a skill, that could just as easily be explained in-game through the d20 mechanic. Why was he better at disarming traps before? It doesn't have to be because he had more ranks in Disable Device. He might have just gotten luckier or the situation favored him or he had unique insight as to that particular trap (as represented in the game by the d20 roll).
It doesn't effect your suspension of disbelief when a character crits in one fight and does a lot of damage, but in the next fight rolls 1's on all his damage rolls does it? Sneak attack is basically the same thing. The character could just as easily have done more damage because he critted more often or rolled well on damage.
Racial changes are the best examples of things that can't ever work on a reboot. Just about everything else can be explained using some creativity. (Phoenix wasn't really Jean Gray. It was a powerful entity that took her place and made a clone. That's why she was so powerful for that period of time.)
Sebastian