I'm pretty sure that the cardinal directions are mixed up. It seems like north should be where east is indicated on the map. Is this right?
I have some others while I'm at it. The adventure says Moreto was wounded in his fight with flycatcher, but it doesn't say how he healed himself. Did he have more potions of inflict beforehand or spend some charges from that enervation wand? (expensive healing!)
Do the doors in area 22 open into area 22 or 23?
How high is the ceiling in area 23? It must be at least 40 feet up from where the PCs begin since one column is described as rising up that high.
The mist of area 23 is described as being 80 feet below the floor. Yet the air elementals are hiding 45 feet down. What are they hiding behind?
Is area 16 just a channel the river flows into and then back out again? It looks like a dead end, but then there is that seeming connection to area 17. The description of the ice implies that there is water underneath it, then there is some kind of gap, and then just an ice block above. Is this a fairly accurate idea?
Is that ridge around area 20 a ledge level with area 15?
Shouldn't the entry for the advanced wind warrior's off-hand attack deal 1d8+3 damage? I thought they weren't suppose to take a penalty on damage rolls.
The adventure includes a caveat for what the PCs will see if they sneak up on Moreto. Wouldn't his lifesense ability preclude any sneaking up at all?
Can an oculus shoot all three eye rays at the same target in one round? Do they have the same cumulative effect described in the entry if they do?
Wow, that's a lot of questions. I had a tough time with this mod.
I'm pretty sure that the cardinal directions are mixed up. It seems like north should be where east is indicated on the map. Is this right?
Looks correct to me - it lines up with area #3 of The Whispering Cairne.
I have some others while I'm at it. The adventure says Moreto was wounded in his fight with flycatcher, but it doesn't say how he healed himself. Did he have more potions of inflict beforehand or spend some charges from that enervation wand? (expensive healing!)
I see what you mean. While its possible that the True Goul and Fly Catcher may have simply healed back over time that does not seem all that likely - the adventure says that Fly Catcher and Moreto fought "several days ago" and that they wounded each other grevously - yet both are at full hps. I'd think the easiest way of explaining this is to presume that several days ago really means like a week or more. Then they could have just both healed up naturally and there does not seem to be any specific reason that the battle had to take place 2 days ago as opposed to 2 weeks ago. The real idea is that these two have stalmated each other and Fly Catcher pretty much tells the PCs to keep following the river when it vanishes down a sink hole (without this your PCs might get frustrated after they 'clear' the Dungeon and have not found a way to continue).
Do the doors in area 22 open into area 22 or 23?
It does not say but it makes the most sense for them to open toward the area #22. There is some kind of magical effect on teh doors that causes problems so long as the doors are closed and in sight. Opening them toward you hides the runes and makes it more believable that the magical effect has ended.
How high is the ceiling in area 23? It must be at least 40 feet up from where the PCs begin since one column is described as rising up that high.
"The third {column} rises up to the ceiling forty feet above."
So the cieling is 40 feet from the plane where the floor should be.
The mist of area 23 is described as being 80 feet below the floor. Yet the air elementals are hiding 45 feet down. What are they hiding behind?
Presumably they are hiding in the mist - they are air elementals - they look a heck of a lot like mist.
Sort of like a Water Elemental hiding in water.
Is area 16 just a channel the river flows into and then back out again? It looks like a dead end, but then there is that seeming connection to area 17. The description of the ice implies that there is water underneath it, then there is some kind of gap, and then just an ice block above. Is this a fairly accurate idea?
My understanding is that the players are under area 17 if they are at end of area 16. At this point the cieling is described as being only 15 feet overhead and they can make spot checks to look up at the cieling and figure out that they could cut their way through a hole in the roof blocked up by ice. If they do that they gain access to area 17 (presuming they can figure out a way to cut through it in the first place and can then come up with a way of getting up to the hole itself 15 feet above.
Is that ridge around area 20 a ledge level with area 15?
It never really specifies so I'd assume that the answer is yes - however its important that area 15 be able to easily flood from the river in area 20 so maybe its a 3 to 5 or so feet below - not much lower in anycase as the description of the trap implies that the room does not fill up completely but it clearly floods to the point where PCs would have to swim if they want to exit to area 20.
Shouldn't the entry for the advanced wind warrior's off-hand attack deal 1d8+3 damage? I thought they weren't suppose to take a penalty on damage rolls.
I'll leave this one for experts on Wind Dukes.
The adventure includes a caveat for what the PCs will see if they sneak up on Moreto. Wouldn't his lifesense ability preclude any sneaking up at all?
Hmmm - I'm not really sure where one looks up the life sense ability.
Can an oculus shoot all three eye rays at the same target in one round? Do they have the same cumulative effect described in the entry if they do?
The entry on the Demon does not particularly specify but to my mind the implication is either that it won't normally do so - presumably if it did then the effects would be comulative but it seems to go against the grain on how this is supposed to play out - so I'd just not use them altogether at one enemy and instead pick seperate targets each round. But if you want to really be mean to a player - well your DMing this baby and can do what you want.
First of all, thanks for the help. Comments in line.
I see what you mean. While its possible that the True Goul and Fly Catcher may have simply healed back over time that does not seem all that likely - the adventure says that Fly Catcher and Moreto fought "several days ago" and that they wounded each other grevously - yet both are at full hps. I'd think the easiest way of explaining this is to presume that several days ago really means like a week or more. Then they could have just both healed up naturally and there does not seem to be any specific reason that the battle had to take place 2 days ago as opposed to 2 weeks ago. The real idea is that these two have stalmated each other and Fly Catcher pretty much tells the PCs to keep following the river when it vanishes down a sink hole (without this your PCs might get frustrated after they 'clear' the Dungeon and have not found a way to continue).
I was actually more concerned about the fact that undead don't heal naturally.
"The third {column} rises up to the ceiling forty feet above."So the cieling...
Aha! Missed that one. Thanks!
Creative Director
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Jeremy's right for the most part; here's some more input on those questions:
I'm pretty sure that the cardinal directions are mixed up. It seems like north should be where east is indicated on the map. Is this right?
The compass rose on the maps is correct; it's possible an error or two crept into the text, I suppose.
The adventure says Moreto was wounded in his fight with flycatcher, but it doesn't say how he healed himself. Did he have more potions of inflict beforehand or spend some charges from that enervation wand? (expensive healing!)
Moreto was indeed wounded in his fight with Flycatcher, and he did indeed heal himself in the time since this fight. As far as the adventure is concerned, it's not important HOW he healed himself, so we didn't include this bit of minutiae. It's safe to assume he had some potions of inflict wounds handy (enervation only gives temporary hit points and thus wouldn't have healed him). Of course, I think allowing undead to heal hit points over time like living creatures is "good for the game" so if you want to house rule this, that works too. (If undead can't heal damage naturally... then there would be a lot less "undead haunted" ruins in the world—or at least, there'd be a lot less undead with maximum hit points in adventures...)
Do the doors in area 22 open into area 22 or 23?
They swing into area 22 when they open.
How high is the ceiling in area 23? It must be at least 40 feet up from where the PCs begin since one column is described as rising up that high.
The ceiling is forty feet above the floor of area 22, except above F where it extends up to area 24.
The mist of area 23 is described as being 80 feet below the floor. Yet the air elementals are hiding 45 feet down. What are they hiding behind?
Yes; the air elementals are hiding in the mist. There's a discrepency in the text; the boxed text sets the mist at a depth of 80 feet while the elementals are said to be hiding at 45 feet. I recomend raising the level of the mist to 45 feet, althoguh in the end either depth works as long as you're consistent in play.
Is area 16 just a channel the river flows into and then back out again? It looks like a dead end, but then there is that seeming connection to area 17. The description of the ice implies that there is water underneath it, then there is some kind of gap, and then just an ice block above. Is this a fairly accurate idea?
Area 16 is a dead end that the river eddies around in. It doesn't "flow back out." Think of area 16 as a pool on the side of the river. The ground is higher in area 16, and human-sized creatures can wade around in the water here.
Is that ridge around area 20 a ledge level with area 15?
The ridge around area 20 is at about the same height as the top of the waterfall, so it's actually a bit above the secret door from area 15. Area 15 is about ten feet lower than the ledge around area 20, since area 15 is lower than the riverbed itself.
Shouldn't the entry for the advanced wind warrior's off-hand attack deal 1d8+3 damage? I thought they weren't suppose to take a penalty on damage rolls.
The wind warrriors' secondary attack is wrong. It should do the same damage as its primary hand: 1d8+3.
The adventure includes a caveat for what the PCs will see if they sneak up on Moreto. Wouldn't his lifesense ability preclude any sneaking up at all?
Lifesense allows a true ghoul to "see" life in a way similar to how a paladin can "see"evil. He needs to take a move action to note the direction of the life, so if the PCs can reach him before he can do this, they can sneak up on him. Likewise, lifesense can't penetrate solid rock; the PCs could sneak up on him by burrowing underground. They could send controled undead or constructs up to him. And this doesn't account for any strange "lifesense-blocking" effects the PCs might have gained from non-core classes, races, or abilities. It's tough to sneak up on a true ghoul, but it's by no means impossible.
Can an oculus shoot all three eye rays at the same target in one round? Do they have the same cumulative effect described in the entry if they do?
It certainly can, although the victim of three eyerays in a single round still gets to make a trio of Fortitude saves to resist the additional effects of all three eyebolts.
Jeremy's right for the most part; here's some more input on those questions:
I'm pretty sure that the cardinal directions are mixed up. It seems like north should be where east is indicated on the map. Is this right?The compass rose on the maps is correct; it's possible an error or two crept into the text, I suppose.
Alright, then I'm still confused. The textual descriptions really don't play into anything; it's the maps. If you look at the direction the waterfall is coming from on the horizontal view, then you imagine yourself perched above it looking down, then it appears the waterfall is flowing towards the south-east if you compare it to the Icosiol's Tomb map. If you compare it to the True Tomb map however, then it would seem that the waterfall is flowing towards the north. In my statement above, I tried to imagine the waterfall twisting just a bit so I could justify calling it east, but I couldn't find any way to imagine the waterfall, as drawn, to twist around so that it is actually flowing towards the north.
It wouldn't be a very big issue except for the fact that I'm worried that I'm visualizing something wrong, and if the DM is confused, then the players sure as hell won't be able to figure anything out.
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Creative Director
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Alright, then I'm still confused. The textual descriptions really don't play into anything; it's the maps. If you look at the direction the waterfall is coming from on the horizontal view, then you imagine yourself perched above it looking down, then it appears the waterfall is flowing towards the south-east if you compare it to the Icosiol's Tomb map. If you compare it to the True Tomb map however, then it would seem that the waterfall is flowing towards the north. In my statement above, I tried to imagine the waterfall twisting just a bit so I could justify calling it east, but I couldn't find any way to imagine the waterfall, as drawn, to twist around so that it is actually flowing towards the north.
It wouldn't be a very big issue except for the fact that I'm worried that I'm visualizing something wrong, and if the DM is confused, then the players sure as hell won't be able to figure anything out.
The problem is that compass rose directions don't really have much bearing on a vertical map. The vertical map of the river is intended to show the layout of the cavern and how far the PCs have to climb (or fall). If combat breaks out, simply sketch out a cave area for the fight to take place in as needed. (In an encoutner area like this, we simply can't provide top-down views of every possible area that a fight can take place in.)
My advice here is to simply not worry about applying a compass direction to the vertical map.
This may not be the right place for it, but does anyone have good suggestions for running a 3-D encounter like this besides making it a vertical 2-D instead of a horizontal 2-D encounter? When I ran the Oestral abyss encounter in the last episode of the Shadows of the Abyss AA I ran into this problem, and ended up with several points where two characters wanted to position themselves at the same vertical coordinates on the map (x and y axis) but a different spot horizontally (on the z axis--i.e. abreast of each other). We just had to mark them as being in the same square and remember who was "closer" and who was "farther away" (from the map-reader's perspective), since logically the two characters were not occupying the same 5x5x5 foot cube.
Maybe we all need dragonchess boards!
This may not be the right place for it, but does anyone have good suggestions for running a 3-D encounter like this besides making it a vertical 2-D instead of a horizontal 2-D encounter? When I ran the Oestral abyss encounter in the last episode of the Shadows of the Abyss AA I ran into this problem, and ended up with several points where two characters wanted to position themselves at the same vertical coordinates on the map (x and y axis) but a different spot horizontally (on the z axis--i.e. abreast of each other). We just had to mark them as being in the same square and remember who was "closer" and who was "farther away" (from the map-reader's perspective), since logically the two characters were not occupying the same 5x5x5 foot cube.
Maybe we all need dragonchess boards!
You can run the encounter with a top-down view and write each character's elevation in a corner of their square. Conversely, you can run it with a side view and write down each character's 'depth' into the battlemat. If you can't write on your battlemat, you can use homemade tokens.
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I was actually more concerned about the fact that undead don't heal naturally.....
Are you sure....
—Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
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I was actually more concerned about the fact that undead don't heal naturally.....
Are you sure....
—Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
This is true. Libris Mortis expands on this info (which is from the back of the Monster Manual, by the way) with the following:
"With 8 or more consecutive hours of inactivity in any 24-hour period, an undead with an Intelligence score recovers 1 hit point per Hit Die. If such an undead is completely inactive for a full 24-hour period, it recovers 2 hit points per Hit Die."
This is called "Necromantic Healing" and is essentially identical to Natural Healing for a living creature.
Well, being an excruciatingly meticulous person it just irks me that I can't visualize this map in my head. The vertical map assumes some kind of horizontal viewing plane yes? If so, just tell me from what direction is the perspective of the viewer. Is the viewer facing north looking into the vertical map?
As for the undead healing, I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Creative Director
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Well, being an excruciatingly meticulous person it just irks me that I can't visualize this map in my head. The vertical map assumes some kind of horizontal viewing plane yes? If so, just tell me from what direction is the perspective of the viewer. Is the viewer facing north looking into the vertical map?
As for the undead healing, I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing it out.
I suppose the best way to think of the map in that manner, then, is that you are looking north. The left side of the map is West, while the right side is East.