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Apart from totally screwing up the adventure by running and getting the militia, I'm wondering how other DM's are handling this scenario when it comes to the party resting. As mentioned in other posts, the only real way I can see going through this adventure is a non-stop blitz. What's to stop the adventurers from running up to the militia after they find an evil cult? If the party attacks then retreats to town to rest, wouldn't the jig be up for the cultists? They'd right leave the area, or at least the mines. It would be pretty hard to tell the party to 'hey, stock up on a lot of healing potions, you won't be able to rest at all once you give your surprise element away' and maintain a sense of the unexpected. It also surprises me that these cultists really don't have a way to tell each other they are being invaded, short of the other temples finding bodies...and if you don't give thema hint about potions of healing and the like, won't they get their ass beat when the Aspect pops up? "Hey, those three temples were tough, I got like 18 hp after I chugged my two potions of Cure lt. wds" "Me too......hey...what's THAT?" <I>(SLAUGHTER ENSUES)<\I>
I have not yet run this adventure, but I have separated the temples (I think this is a fairly common response to your question). Because I am running AoW in a non-typical setting (in which there are no grimlocks) I went ahead and made Jieran Wierus one of the high priests of the Ebon Triad and placed the natural caves under his chapel in the middle of town.
Thus, the PCs will explore the battle temple in Dourstone Mine, in which they will find clues which hint at Wierus's involvement. After some rest (during which it is not impossible to believe that the other temples have not been alerted), investigation of the church will reveal the caves beneath the a hidden trap door.
After fighting through this area, the PCs will be directed back to the Dourstone Mine, alerted to a secret area that they missed the first time, in which the Faceless One is hiding. By this time, he has probably discovered that Theldrick is dead but thinks he is safe behind his labyrinth and must continue his ritual to wake the Aspect.
I think this sort of separation allows for more PC success and a more realistic response from the cultists.
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Also, I think it's key to play up the soldiers' incompetence/disinterest with the affairs of the town. I have made sure to have the garrison leaders say something like, "Let Cubbin deal with it," a couple times (regarding Kullen and Smenk). Thus, the PCs feel that they need to deal with the situation themselves and can't just hand it off to the authorities.
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I was wondering about this one myself. There were several approaches I was considering here:
- have the elevator either ascend whilst the PCs are down there abandoning them down the mine or crash the elevator down rendering it useless until fixed. Making the PCs feel clautrophobic about the three temples several hundreds of feet below the ground should be memorable. They can levitate up if they have these capability or trust in their climbing ability. However this means splitting the party up - something which my group aren't in a hurry to do.
- Dourstone would have some sway in town, at least in terms of the Sheriff and constabulary. A visit from an assassin (the same one who did in Smenk's former right hand man) threatening misfortune to some of the PCs companions or friends in town should be enough to slow the PCs down. Target the PCs and you get their backs up. Threaten their friends and they won't be quite so gung-ho.
- The Garrison would love to act but cannot unless specifically asked to by the Mayor (Diamond Lake proper is not in their jurisdiction). They may tell the PCs (after the event) that they have sent in a secret cadre (led by those of Heironeous) to investigate their claims to push Neff into acting. However, the group sent in do not return after a couple of days (they met with an early ebon aspect perhaps) and so the PCs are asked to investigate and possibly rescue any survivors.
- Apathy in town is a big factor. Fantastic speculation of cults hundreds of feet under the ground sounds like a big deal. However, actually finding the downward shaft would be difficult, particularly if Dourstone chooses not to assist. Mines are dangerous places. Perhaps as well, no crime has actually been committed by any of the cults anyway. Where there is no wrong-doing, getting the "law" to act is sometimes difficult.
- By the way, the idea of spreading out the three cults is a good one. I'd still have them all in the one place down that special mineshaft though.
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
Apart from totally screwing up the adventure by running and getting the militia, I'm wondering how other DM's are handling this scenario when it comes to the party resting. As mentioned in other posts, the only real way I can see going through this adventure is a non-stop blitz. What's to stop the adventurers from running up to the militia after they find an evil cult? If the party attacks then retreats to town to rest, wouldn't the jig be up for the cultists? They'd right leave the area, or at least the mines. It would be pretty hard to tell the party to 'hey, stock up on a lot of healing potions, you won't be able to rest at all once you give your surprise element away' and maintain a sense of the unexpected. It also surprises me that these cultists really don't have a way to tell each other they are being invaded, short of the other temples finding bodies...and if you don't give thema hint about potions of healing and the like, won't they get their ass beat when the Aspect pops up? "Hey, those three temples were tough, I got like 18 hp after I chugged my two potions of Cure lt. wds" "Me too......hey...what's THAT?" <I>(SLAUGHTER ENSUES)<\I>
My group started the Age of Worms Adventure with the 3FoE. On the way through the mine, they failed to bribe a group of miners and were subsequently surrounded by guards. After disposing of them, they descended and started going through the caves. There presense is known and there will be reprocussions when they return to the surface.
They rested within the caves on the archers ledge and made it through the night without incident. The other temples will be a bit more interesting for them however. My group is usually very creative when it comes to this sort of thing so I don't think they will have to come back to the surface before all is said and done below ground.
I actually encountered this very same problem. My players are very story-oriented, so I had to improvise a bit. The party descended into the dungeon and went first for the Labyrinth of Vecna. Once there they cleared it out and killed the Faceless One they needed to rest, so they barricaded themselves into a room in the Labyrinth to rest overnight. Since they'd cleared out the wing, I ruled that no one came to bother them in the night.
Yet they couldn't very well get away with killing all the Vecna cultists and then resting. As they came back to the main chamber they overheard Theldrick commanding an underling to begin evacuating the Hextor wing immediately. They hid while the Hextorites cleaned out their wing and then left. The party left as well, heading back to town, but not before learning that Theldrick and a handful of guards were remaining in the mines to clean up some last-minute business. The party went back to town, restocked and rested, then returned to the mine.
They made their way to Theldrick, though all of the cultists and warriors had vacated (denying them the phat loot they would normally get). After making their way to Theldrick, he actually talked them into letting him go after revealing that Balabar had a business deal and was trying to go back on it. Theldrick convinced them that Balabar was a cheat and a liar, but at that point they let him go. With the Faceless One dead, Theldrick gone, and much of the temple cleared out, they decided to move onto the Erythnul wing. Unlike the Hextorites, they had not fled, but had instead been convinced by Grallak to take part in a fanatical cult ritual that involved inseting Kyuss worms into their heads. Unfortunately, the worms themselves were too weak to fully take over the bodies of the grimlocks, so mostly they just all died from the worms. Grallak himself implanted a worm into his head, but the party arrived before it had a chance to kill him. There, Grallak gave them each some bizarre prophecies and then slumped over dead as the weak Kyuss worm failed to complete the transformation and killed him instead.
The party then returned to Diamond Lake to find Balabar murdered in a most grisly fashion, with Theldrick as the obvious prime suspect. Now the party is unsure what to do, given that the Triad temple is cleared out (though they know that many cultists remain in town), Theldrick gone (to the Free City, but they don't know this yet), and more questions than answers. I had to be adaptive and they missed out on a bit of XP, but I'm thinking of inserting another adventure (a small one) involving run-ins with townsfolk loyal to the Ebon Triad to make up for lost XP and give me a chance to flesh out the threat of the cult.
My group snuck into the mine, so their presence there is unknown to any of the miners. Now they went into the mine for two reasons. First, Smenk told them to clear up a little problem for him. They didn't like how he presented it, but took to heart the fact that he could make life in Diamond Lake very difficult for them (they had just gotten the deed to the offic building near WC so they were set on being in town for a while). Once they got down to the temples, they actually rigged the elevator in a halfway up position (using a combination of skills and spells). This made it difficult (but not impossible) for the cultists to get out. Since they are in no hurry to get anywhere, it wasn't a big deal for the cultists (I figure the Hextor's are the only ones that might leave on a semi-regular basis). They took out the Hextor temple first, so the other temples were none the wiser. So far they have taken out everything but the faceless one. I am actually impressed with how intelligent and methodical that are doing this.
i'm currently re-writing the whole adventure, just because i think my players aren't up for a crawl of quite this magnitude, and I would like to see some greater role-play go on in the area around diamond lake.
essentially, i'm replacing the Grimlocks with another chaotic evil race, humanoid. the pc's are hired by the town to investigate several raids on Smenk's (and only smenk's) shipping. they follow the gnolls back to their camp, where they kill kill kill - and get a clue leading to the hextorite stronghold. they find the stronghold, kill kill kill, and find a clue leading back to the dourstone mine. under the mine, they find the labyrinth, the black cathedral, and the faceless one.
sure, it makes it a bit more like a linear railroad, but it's not too hard to give them enough clues so that they feel like they are pursuing the best option they have at the time.
I let them camp in the Hextor temple, which they cleared first. They did the same with the Grimlocks. It wasn't a problem, since I believe that the adventure even says the groups can go long periods without communicating (or maybe I'm just having a false memory and made that up myself- anyway, that's how it went with my group). This makes sense, too- would Hextorites want to associate with Erythnu;-worshipping grimlocks anymore than they have to? Not in my book. Would the cult of Vecna be open with the other two? Again, not how I see things.
Why not get the guard? As previously said, Cubbin's men don't care, and the garrison needs authority, which Neff isn't likely to grant (would you, as a corrupt governor, want an armed force marching through town, other than your own cronies?)
Why not come back up? Make it a big deal to come back up- the party can sneak in undetected, but is not sure if they can get out in the same condition, which would make returning difficult. They need to make sure they finish the dungeon in one fell swoop.
Now, I realize there are major problems with this. It's all well and good if they successfully clear a whole wing at a time, but what happens if they fail and need to back out? Are the other wings alerted? In the face of a capable attack, probably. So, what happens then? There's no info on how a complex-wide alarm would function. Each temple seems to operate on a daily basis at its maximum readiness, which isn't a problem, but doesn't leave much room for maneuvering in a changing situation. You've got no reserves that way. So, what do we, as DMs, do with the foes if the entire complex is rallied to the defense?
One last thing- the Ebon Aspect popping up at the end of the adventure, when the party is probably at their weakest? Yeah, that's rough. So is the Age of Worms. Get used to it. Welcome to hell [insert evil DM's laugh here].
If your players are having trouble surviving the 3FoE, dont worry, theres a patch. There are two wands of cure light wounds in the temple, one belonging to Kendra in the Hextor temple, the other to the female Grimlock barbarian. Between the two wands, your players will have 74 charges of cure light wounds. Thats not including the slew of potions they should find on the bodies of the fallen throughout the bloodbath.
My players managed to lock themselves in each proper temple, resting to regain spells, and use the wands to heal themselves. The enemies were still a challenge, but their was never a need to go running to the garrison. It is the players who are the HEROES of this tale afterall, not a bunch 1st level warriors/security guards.
My PCs rested in the horseshoe cave in the Grimlock caves, and took advantage of the fortified nature of the Battle Temple to rest as well. I didn't make it easy for them, they got attacked during their rest in the Grimlock caves by more Grimlocks, but some careful preparation, sabotage and a tireless watchman (Artophanx!) made it survivable.
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Why not get the guard? As previously said, Cubbin's men don't care, and the garrison needs authority, which Neff isn't likely to grant (would you, as a corrupt governor, want an armed force marching through town, other than your own cronies?)
I don't know....I don't see how the garrison needs any permission to do anything...they have the run of the town and don't answer to the mayor...if fact they pretty much let everyone know Neff's men are not likes. And Neff would probably want a cult gone, especially if he can blame their existance on Smenk, his big rival. As for the aspect, he could probably take down a stock 3rd level party on his own, without them being weakened....ahh well, I guess that's what character sheets are for...
I think I see Saern's point on this one. To the extent that I understand the military/political situation with Diamond lake and the Free City, a Free City military unit (such as the garrison) doesn't have any policing authority in Diamond Lake proper, and any such action without the Governor-Mayor's approval or request could potentially break some sort of policy and/or agreement between DL and the Free City. Granted, nothing much would stop it from happening at the moment, but the garrison soldiers and commander should know that there would be serious repercussions from their superiors at the Free City for marching an armed force into the town without the approval of the Governor-Mayor. The garrison is there to protect the region from monstrous incursions, but anything within the bounds of the town itself would be deemed a local problem, and only the Governor-Mayor may request military intervention from the garrison. So the question is, would he? Well, with the proper evidence and convincing (proof of Smenk's involvement being the linch-pin), he very likely would - assuming the PCs can even get an audience with him, which would take time. Time that the PCs should likely believe they don't have just to wait around for the authorities to do something about it. After all, THEY are the heroes. If I wanted to see the authorities kicking in doors and arresting people, I'd watch COPS, not play D&D.
My group cleared the Hextor temple and I decided much like the other post that it was fortified enough for them to rest in the clerics rooms off of the battle temple.
However, some of the guards up top are also cultists and at some point, their shift of guard duty is up. They returned to the elevator (which was down in the chapel) and realized something was wrong. One of them made the climb down and alerted the Vecna temple before returning (with the elevator) to the surface (this also does a nice job of explaining how word got back to Loris). Since the party was resting in the back of the temple, they didn't hear the cultists calliong down to the tieflings to bring up the elevator, they didn't see the cultist who found the carnage in the entrance to the Hextor temple and have no idea that anyone is the wiser.
So yes, I let them rest...unfortunately for them.
I see two major problems being brought up consistently in this thread. I'll see if I can address them.
The first is the potential issue caused by PCs contacting the town guard and letting them do the dirty work. There are more than a few problems with this. First of all, the watch of a small town is not going to have the resources to breach a heavily defended position. You may contend that the garrison DOES have such resources, however the garrison and the watch are two distinct entities. Calling the garrison in is analogous to calling the Army and telling them the guy next door is sacrificing your neighbors in his basement. The Army would tell you to call the police. As has also been alluded to, the mayor would have to call in martial law for this to happen, which may have its own political problems. Finally, true heroes should WANT to take care of this themselves. Heroes don't stand on the sidelines and let the watch do the job; they break down the door and take the loot for themselves. It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it, and if anyone is going to benefit, it might as well be the PCs.
The second problem seems to be the cultists' non-reaction to PC interference. This is explained in the module. They don't deal with each other any more than they have to; they only tolerate each others' presences because they are working towards a common goal. They also rarely leave the complex because they aren't welcome in normal society. This is why the Faceless One had to make arrangements for supplies with Smenk in the first place. If they could just go up to the general store and buy foodstuffs and clothing whenever they needed to, they wouldn't need a corrupt businessman to smuggle the stuff in for them. So assuming the PCs can make arrangements to come and go in the mine as they please, there shouldn't be a problem with letting them rest in town in between. Because the cultists don't interact with each other much, it is also feasible to rest inside a temple that has been completely cleared out. If the PCs attack a temple and retreat BEFORE clearing it out, it is likely that temple will warn the others and they will make whatever preparations you, as the DM, deem necessary and available to them for when the PCs return. If the PCs are resting in a temple they already cleared out, this may include marshalling for a counter-attack.