Well said one and all. I met up with the Drow player for lunch. He is happy to take two negative ECLs and buy them off at level 2 and 3. Which - it occured to us means that he gets a class level to start with (rogue, 6hp), but no more hp until 4th level when he gets his second class level. Which is tough but he is willing to pay the price.
Time to lay down the law!
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And he whined and b!##%ed. Ugh. This is starting to p*** me off. In the 26 years I have been playing I have never had this sort of issue come up.
Well, (I would) tell him to STFU and stop being a baby. You are putting in good-faith effort to work with him to get the type of character he would like and he's nipping at the hand that's aiding him.
Give him the bottom line: If he's interested playing this type of character, this is the path he will follow. If he has a problem with that, tough s%*&.
You've been nice and accomodating.
One of my players is running a male lizardfolk druid with a crocodile animal companion. Should be interesting and fun.
The Mistmarsh.
Interacting with the PCs and NPCs.
Interacting with animals.
Wild shaping in Waterdeep.
So - we are approaching an accord. The chap in question has agreed to my edicts and I have agreed to some of his requests.
In short - he is taking a +2 ECL with negative ECL levels bought back at levels 2 and 3. And he has agreed to my plans on how to integrate him into the party. In return (so to speak) I agreed to modify the race down so that it is just a +2 ECL with no monster hit dice.
Any suggestions for this? Aside from dropping the 2 monster hit dice, BAB bonus and all associated bits - should I take anything else out? When compared to other +2 ECL races how does it compare? FOr that matter, what other +2 ECL races are there, aside from Drow?
Hey, I have the idea of playing an Imp at some point -- take the alternate form of a human (albeit nondescript), and who'd know? And with fast healing, regeneration, DR, and invisibility at will, who would be the best scout around?
Of course, no DM has let me yet ... ;>
I fully agree if you want to ROLEPLAY a monster race then they should gain monster levels first not just take all the goodies. they should come up with a GOOD reason for being where they are, why they haven't already been slain, and have the party roleplay as though they had a real click talking mandable man there with them. encourage him to actually roleplay and not munchkin. personally i had a half ogre (savage species) who was a monk who focused on grappeling very dangerous, but i roleplayed him everytime i met someone new. an orphan left on the steps of a monastery makes for an excellent half breed character storyline.
an orphan left on the steps of a monastery makes for an excellent half breed character storyline.
I prefer the "I've seen the light" style conversion myself.
NPC barkeep: "Is..is that an ogre you've got there?"
PC ogre: "Not just an ogre friend, but an ogre with Good News!"
I prefer the "I've seen the light" style conversion myself.
NPC barkeep: "Is..is that an ogre you've got there?"
PC ogre: "Not just an ogre friend, but an ogre with Good News!"
ROTFL! You rock! I wanna be in your campaign! :-)
OK something like that will deal with the mechanics. Any help with the racial levels would be great - I don't actually have either the psionics book or Savage races.
That can be awkward... Personally, I never allow a player to use any material from a book I don't own. If they want to use that book so badly, they get to buy me one! :) Hey, I spend 4 to 8 hours a week prepping for adventures, so it's a fair compensation, especially if they want to add to my workload by mucking with my established world.
Now, to address the Munchkin point: Bringing in a new race can be tricky, especially if you run your games like telling a story. If you just play for the sake of playing and having fun, then it doesn't matter what they play as long as they have a good time. But if, like me, you are trying to tell a feasible story with plausible reasons for what goes on, then bringing in a monster as a Player Character can be a stretch. If you want to allow it, there are two points to consider, really...
1.) A good reason. Simply put, why do they want to play this type of character, and what is a good reason in the storyline to include them? You have to know your player, first of all: Is he/she doing this to enhance your story, or are they just doing it to squeeze out higher scores and unbalancing special abilities? If they are trying to improve their role-playing skills by taking on a new challenge, then you likely have nothing to worry about. Such players are precious and usually understand issues of game-balance and won't want to rock the boat too fiercely. They want a smooth running game just as much as you do. But if they are just point-whores (Munchkins!!), then you need to be firm and make them work for it.
2.) Is it overbalancing? If not, no big deal, let 'em play and just have fun. If it is, then you need to make adjustments. There are several methods for doing this, many of which are mentioned above, so I won't belabour the obvious. Best thing to do (in my opinion) is make a special starting class or race that gives them the flavor they want without unbalancing the game. Effectively, make it a +0 EL class or race.
Example, in my game, someone wanted a drow bard. Bards are fine, they're official, no problem. Drow on the other hand... yeesh. I realized he wanted the role-play aspect more than power, so we sat down and worked out a version we were both comfortable with. First off, he lost all traces of Spell Resistance, and his darkvision was cut to the traditional 60 ft. alloted to PC races. He didn't get the full +2 bonuses to Dex, Int, and Charisma... I told him if he wanted those kind of scores, he could put his high scores in those abilities. He took a +2 bonus to Dex, -2 to Con like a good elf, and put his highest rolled scores in Int and Cha. I allowed him his racial spell-like abilities since they weren't that powerful and had some precedent in the gnome race. If he wanted the more powerful stuff (Levitation, etc.) he'd need to spend a feat on that. We ruled that he wasn't raised in drow society, so he didn't get the racial weapon proficiencies either. His other abilities were standard elf abilities, so were not unbalancing at all. I balanced the slight advantage he had over normal elves with a hard light sensitivity (blind for 1d4 rounds after abrupt exposure to bright light, with several minutes of being dazzled thereafter). For role playing, he's a performer at the Emporium, since it's one of the few places a fellow like that could find some level of acceptance on the surface. The rest, he'll have to earn.
So you see, you can make it work if you want to. You could just say "no" and spare yourself the headache, but if he wants to explore the role-playing, you might consider making his choice a balanced one. Racial Progression Levels and heavy role-playing penalties were both mentioned above, and can help make the player wonder if it was worth it after all. I mean, your thri-kreen might have 4 claw attacks, hellacious leaping ability, and psionic powers. But as written in the game, with the +2 EL penalty, he still falls short somewhere else... the other characters of the same EL as him will far surpass him with saving throws, BAB, feats, skill points, and most important, HIT POINTS! He might have a 23 Dex and a 19 Str, but that trap he set off still will snuff him out like a candle if his hit points don't reflect his level. Sooner or later, such munchkins get killed because their character doesn't have the stamina of a conventional PH character.