During play tonight in the Whispering Cairn, some of my players declared that their characters were going to take the time to remove the red armor found on the corpses of the Seekers (if you know what I am referring to.) I found this distressing, although i understand that D&D is all about looting the bodies. Has any of your players in your campaigns tkane the time to remove the red armor from the corpses? And if so, did you consider it an evil act?
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Firstly, remember that the armour is almost certainly both useless & worthless -- they've spent the last sixty years in an underground dungeon, wrapped around rotting corpses, and occassionally being nibbled on by beetles and the like.
Under these conditions although magical armour would have survived, I'd downgrade masterwork to normal if it's mostly metal and require repairs before it was useable, and armour that's mostly leather would be useless.
Secondly, it's going to be an unpleasant and demeaning task -- Batrog the half-orc urchin from the bad side of Diamond Lake might be willing to do it, but Squire Peregrine of Pholtus is unlikely to. Highlight the roleplaying side.
Lastly, I'd say it's chaotic if anything rather than evil, given D&D's alignment issues (moral absolutism blah blah blah) and the fact that 90% of adventurers are basically "professional" graverobbers! :)
A good article on this issue was in the "Save Your Game" column on Wizard's website recently. Go check it out.
Personally, if they want to take the time to do it I'd let them. However, there are consequences doing so, just as there are for all their other actions. Take the time to look for opportunities this might present; if they plan on selling it, maybe Khellek, the Seeker wizard that's in town, sees them doing so. He might pursue them, wanting to know where and how they came into possession of it. That would be a great way to really make the world real to the players; plus, they'll think twice about dealing with anything that has an identifying mark on it again.
In my campaign, some of the Seeker armor has gone rotten and useless, some has survived -- the air in some parts of the tomb has a magical preserving quality. The bard has "adopted" a Seeker suit for himself, and when he runs into Khellek in town things are going to get interesting....
Yes, they did. Yes, they wore it. No, it wasn't evil. At least, not as much as plundering the cairn to begin with. "Stealing" from long dead, previous grave robbers = text-book D&D.
I've never felt that "finders keepers" was evil. People plunder ancient tombs in the real world all the time. Now, going to the local Grave yard and digging around in graves protected by the laws of the local society...usually frowned upon. But if you find an unidentified corpse in the woods, "Finders Keepers" applies.
I as the DM would also award XP to characters who returned items from say an identifiable Paladin or Cleric to that person's church, or return items to the fallen person's family if that can be discerned.
In the case of the Seeker Armor, I'd have any Seeker who saw that character with it first assume that that character was a seeker and try to make contact. Failing contact with a fellow seeker, the real seeker would enquire about where the armor came from and try to divine the circumstances and location of the true seekers demise. The real Seeker might then try to procure the armor or emblemed item, perhaps at a slightly inflated price or through subterfuge, and would definitely follow the characters around gathering information on them and their exploits to further their own seeker goals.
The same would be true if a character openly possessed something that belonged to a well known bad guy or an evil cult or religion.
There are all sorts of plot hooks that can come from possessing recovered equipment/weapons/armor.
“Ye be wearing me brother’s armor!” "What foul have ye done him?"
“That sword is a holy artifact of my order” (Player must donate weapon or begin to gather a flock of harmless pilgrams that follow him _everywhere_ hoping to touch the holy weapon. Thay are led by a priest who makes a running commintary on every action of the player. "See how the sword wounds the vile foes of the holy wielder." "See how the holy wielder welcomes the fine lady into his room." "See how the wielder lies unconscious at the feet of the troll, his blood freely flowing across the floor. Behold!" The pilgrims will follow the player into every situation including combat, but will not help the wielder in any way. In fact their presence should be a constant hinderance. Injuring the Pilgrims should be considered an evil act. However, the Pilgrims are willing to be 'martyred' while witnessing the holy path of the wielder. Local authorities will not look kindly upon a hero leading the pilgrims to their death. New pilgrims will arrive at the rate of one per day anytime the character in in inhabited lands, and at the rate of one per week regardless of where the PC is. These guys are persistant, and only want to be near the holy sword.The wielder may also have to foot the bill incured by having this undesired following)
“I have the matching dagger”.
“My Father’s will is in the weapon’s hilt” (and it says that the sword goes to me)
“All who have wielded that axe have died”
“So, you a Crip? ‘Cause I’m a Blood”. (Draw sucker)
“That shield belonged to my master, Lord Heimight, as one of his knights you will hand it over to me”. (Meet Mr. Paladin)
“That magical cloak belonged to Larrith the Wicked. It must be destroyed, for it is a symbol of his tyranny”
"I see from you ring that you are a friend. Hurry they are ater me. Deliver this message or our cause will surely fail" (Player handed a coded note by a complete stranger who vanishes into the crowd)
ASEO out
But if you find an unidentified corpse in the woods, "Finders Keepers" applies.
Not me. I call 9-1-1.
LOL
Oh, let them loot.
How's anyone supposed to make a buck these days with all this moralizing?
Its not like dead need the armour. Unless they are undead, in which case destroy the foul creature in the name of all that is holy, and then take the armour to pay for the tithe to the church.
I expected them to loot the bodies. That's typical, and my players aren't playing bright and shiny good guys by any means. I guess it was the desecration of the corpse that bothered me beyond the norm of looting, and the glee with which the situation was role-played. But you're all correct, it will be amusing to see what they plan to do with the armor. And the consequences that will come from their actions.
“That sword is a holy artifact of my order” (Player must donate weapon or begin to gather a flock of harmless pilgrams that follow him _everywhere_ hoping to touch the holy weapon. Thay are led by a priest who makes a running commintary on every action of the player.
That's too funny.. I might have to find a way to work that in anyway... Come on, someone take the leadership feat!
But if you find an unidentified corpse in the woods, "Finders Keepers" applies.Not me. I call 9-1-1.
LOL
Good point - I find a corpse in the woods I ain't touching nothing - thats what cops are for.
Pfah! Everything I learned about handling corpses I learnt from watching CSI.
What I learned from CSI was that I'm not supposed to be touching corpses - especially if I'm not wearing latex gloves. Its absolutely crucial that I have latex gloves before I can even consider it.
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What I learned from CSI was that I'm not supposed to be touching corpses - especially if I'm not wearing latex gloves. Its absolutely crucial that I have latex gloves before I can even consider it.
Nah, it just goes something like this:
You enter a 10x10 room, in the middle of the floor is the dead body of an orc clutching a half eaten piece of pie
So, the wizard casts ultravision, the cleric detects poison looking for traces of dark reaver powder in the pie, the temperature of the body (from infravision) and the fact that it hasn't been looted yet tells us the vic hasn't been dead for long...
During play tonight in the Whispering Cairn, some of my players declared that their characters were going to take the time to remove the red armor found on the corpses of the Seekers (if you know what I am referring to.) I found this distressing, although i understand that D&D is all about looting the bodies. Has any of your players in your campaigns tkane the time to remove the red armor from the corpses? And if so, did you consider it an evil act?
Yes my players did. No I don't consider it an evil act. They plundered most of the stuff that wasn't bolted down and I didn't find removing a corpse's armor any worse than that. Same would apply to removing the chain mail +1 from that corpse or even taking the potions and pearls of power from the bodies. It's all looting and not particularly evil or good, especially since none of the players rolled a good enough knowledge check to know what the Seeker's symbol meant. Even if they knew the organization, it's not like they know the actual persons dead or their families. If they did however, that could be a different story and returning family heirlooms might be considered the right thing to do (good). Even then, for people dead 60 yrs ago, I doubt that I'd consider it an evil act to take their valuable stuff. It's not like those corpses are gonna need it and most likely after this long, their next of kin are dead as well.
I didn't even think about the issue in my game. None of my PCs is lawful actually so I don't think they'd find anything wrong with finders' keepers.
But if you find an unidentified corpse in the woods, "Finders Keepers" applies.
...But then again, I live in Oklahoma, so my responce is "Where the hell did these trees come from?"
ASEO out
But if you find an unidentified corpse in the woods, "Finders Keepers" applies....But then again, I live in Oklahoma, so my responce is "Where the hell did these trees come from?"
ASEO out
HAHAHAHAH!
If CSI should teach you anything, it's always bring latex gloves with you. Huh? Huh? Yeah...
I find looting and grave robbing open the doors for some great roleplaying opportunities.
I've got a Pal 1 / Abj 9 going through the Shackled City campaign and it's been a blast asking my chaotic compatriots to leave money for the orphans, or the families affected by the evil plaguing Cauldron. Also, I've got a few ranks in Knowledge (local) and Knowledge (law) where my DM allows me to act lawfully based on my knowledge of the local laws.
"Since we were attacked by these assassins without lawful provocation we are privy to their gear and any and all monies should be given to help the destitute."
If he tells me that the local laws mean that the loot we find goes to the family first (if identifiable) unless we take ownership via their known crimes against Cauldron and our party, then I try to roleplay my character accordingly.