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Hi Erik,
I've been playing with the new statblocks as I run PCs through the Shackled City. Some of your posts seem to indicate you are currently tweaking the format as you give it a trial by fire. Thus, I am wondering if you are taking reader input on the statblocks? If so:
1) Why not continue to use the monster/town/trap icons? It calls out a statblock from all that other adventure text very nicely.
2) Why list HD as 2HD, not 2d8+4? It makes advancing a critter on the fly so much easier.
3) How about listing ACP (and ASF if appropriate) next to armor, so skills can be calculated on the fly?
4) Why not leave the word "abilities" off before Str, Dex, etc? It'll shorten your statblocks by one line.
And in an unrelated matter
1) What is the proper format for traps now?
If you aren't accepting input, feel free to tell me to sod off at any point ... ;>
Creative Director
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Reader input is always welcome.
1) Why not continue to use the monster/town/trap icons? It calls out a statblock from all that other adventure text very nicely.
We're trying something different. We may go back to using the icons, we may not.
2) Why list HD as 2HD, not 2d8+4? It makes advancing a critter on the fly so much easier.
The theory behind the new stat blocks is to make them easy to use in game. In game, you never need to know what kind of HD a monster has; you just need to know how many of them it has. Adding the type of HD and the modifiers not only clutters the stat block up with more info than you need to run the encounter.
3) How about listing ACP (and ASF if appropriate) next to armor, so skills can be calculated on the fly?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by ACP? If you mean including the way the armor class breaks down into armor, shield, Dexterity, size, deflection, natural, insight, dodge, profane, and sacred bonuses... no way. A creature's AC shouldn't take up 3 lines of a stat block.
4) Why not leave the word "abilities" off before Str, Dex, etc? It'll shorten your statblocks by one line.
This is very, very tempting. VERY tempting.
1) What is the proper format for traps now?
That's an excellent question, and one we're not quite sure of an answer to yet. For now, we're using the old-style trap stat block. That'll change soon as we figure out (or as soon as Wizards does the work for us) how to do it better.
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Creative Director
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Hi James,
By ACP I mean't Armor Check Penalty, and ASF as Arcane Spell Failure. So you could list under possessions:
Possessions: Studded Leather (ACP -1, ASF 15%)
It would be useful in the same vein as listing DCs for spells, and effects of beneficial spells.
Thanks for listening!
Ah! Including Arcane Spell Failure is a great idea. It'll show up on the creature's spell section though, I reckon, right after its caster level or ranged touch attack modifier.
Armor Check Penalties are figured into the stat block as appropriate, so that stuff's all behind the scenes.
Ah! Including Arcane Spell Failure is a great idea. It'll show up on the creature's spell section though, I reckon, right after its caster level or ranged touch attack modifier.
That sounds like a reasonable place for it, though I doubt that it's going to come up very often; I know I make a point of not building spellcasters who are vulnerable to Arcane Spell Failure.
Armor Check Penalties are figured into the stat block as appropriate, so that stuff's all behind the scenes.
Or part of the laborious process by which one grinds out the stat blocks in the first place. =)
Yeah, I'm just hoping you're still bearing with those of us who are trying to figure out these stat blocks by example. I'm sure I'm making mistakes somewhere... like for the HD, where I hadn't realized that only the number of HD, not the actual type and hp bonuses (from Con, toughness, etc.) were listed.
I don't know how I missed that.
I know you're all overworked, and I know you're still allowing the final stat block format to settle, but updated guidelines for the stat blocks would be really helpful. I'd prefer to KNOW I was doing it right than be doing my best to guess.
- Ashavan
I really think full attack should make it in.
I would like to request something for the lines where you just say what page they're on... could you include their CR on this line? It makes giving out xp at the end of the encounter or game easier.
Squid
Ah! Including Arcane Spell Failure is a great idea. It'll show up on the creature's spell section though, I reckon, right after its caster level or ranged touch attack modifier.
See the DMG2, page 162, for an example of where to put ASF. (It goes write after caster level on the Spells Known line.)
--Eric
I did have one other concern about the new stat blocks... their size. Considering that things had to be removed from modules to save space... are these new stat blocks better? They're much easier to read and use, but if they're going to cut short module legnth and content legnth, I'm not sure that they are a good idea. I can deal with smaller blocks if it means I get more content.
Squid
I did have one other concern about the new stat blocks... their size. Considering that things had to be removed from modules to save space... are these new stat blocks better? They're much easier to read and use, but if they're going to cut short module legnth and content legnth, I'm not sure that they are a good idea. I can deal with smaller blocks if it means I get more content.
Squid
All the more reason to publish the NPC and monster stats as part of the online supplement to the game.
Or more reason to use more off-the-shelf NPC's and monsters in Dungeon magazine.
I would like to see ALL the monster/NPC statblocks in Dungeon magazine in the back of the magazine...all of them + published online in an online supplement. Running the AP has made it very annoying to have to keep flipping between pages to look up the NPC's...why not put them all in one place?
If the new statblocks are here to stay due to DMG II or Wizards or whatever--use smaller font??
I did have one other concern about the new stat blocks... their size.
Squid
Agree totally. I just got #126 & had a lot of trouble finding them (they blend with the rest of the normal text == BAD!). They also tend to be so long that they span columns & I think even pages. That's REALLY bad. I need it all in one place for it to be useable at the table.
All the more reason to publish the NPC and monster stats as part of the online supplement to the game.
Second this as well!
I would like to see ALL the monster/NPC statblocks in Dungeon magazine in the back of the magazine...all of them + published online in an online supplement. Running the AP has made it very annoying to have to keep flipping between pages to look up the NPC's...why not put them all in one place?
ABSOLUTELY!
The Sunless Citadel module did this VERY well. A flag in the module's location entry told you which NPC was there & how they would interact when encountered. Stat blocks were grouped at the end! I photocopied these so I could write on them as the encounter occurred. If an NPC died, it got crossed out. If it moved to a new area, I just wrote it down on the stat block page! Easy!
My only disagreement with Farewell2kings is that I'd like the block to be at the end of EACH adventure. Then when I go to make my "at the table" copy, I only get the NPCs appropriate to that adventure. I don't want to grab the wrong line & use some 26th level bad from an epic encounter!
They already group the new monsters & magic items at the end. Why not all the stat blocks?
Having it all in one place also makes it easier to handle NPC interactions that span game sessions. You have your notes all in one spot instead of across the entire adventure text.
If the new statblocks are here to stay due to DMG II or Wizards or whatever--use smaller font??
Again, ditto!
If you are stuck with them, ok, I'll adapt.
But I really hate them. Too much white space, line-wraps in really awkward places, no distinction from regular text all add up to making them really hard to read & thus use.
To be brutally honest, the first time I saw them my reaction was "wow, Wizards is having to pad page count by making stat blocks 10 times longer?"
Granted, the old blocks were too tightly packed, but this goes too far the other way.
/rant
ktm
I would like to see ALL the monster/NPC statblocks in Dungeon magazine in the back of the magazine...all of them + published online in an online supplement. Running the AP has made it very annoying to have to keep flipping between pages to look up the NPC's...why not put them all in one place?
If they where put in the back of the magazine they should be seperated by adventure so we don't have to go searching through monsters we don't need to get to the oens we do.
All that being said I find you have to create a monster index for a module anyway since so many creatures are just in the Monster Manuals. So unless you plan on flipping through the varous monster manuals you've got to collect this stuff prior to your game.
At the same time you might want to simply assemble the varous NPCs in an equally usable format.
I'll voice the counter opinion to "putting stat blocks in the back." This, more than anything else, is something I detest about large adventures like City of the Spider Queen and Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. I hate having to flip back and forth from the stat blocks in the back to the adventure text. I find it disruptive and time consuming. I like that stat blocks in Dungeon are listed in the location where you're most likely to encounter the NPC/monster.
Now, if you want to talk about going one size smaller on stat blocks to both save some room and make them stand out, I might be able to go for that. I'd have to actually see it to be sure, though. Remember that some of us have horrible vision. ;) Going to small will make them really difficult for me to read.
Overall, I really like the new stat block format. I find it much easier to find information I need, quickly. I don't have to go digging through oodles of feats and skills, trying to find somebody's spot or listen modifiers; I don't have to look real hard to figure out what potions or scrolls they might use pre-combat; I can quickly find their ability scores, so I can modify as needed if I do something like drop guantlets of ogre power on one of the NPCs. And so on and so forth.
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I'm really warming up to the new statblocks. I've been building monsters in the new format and it's been a real boon to running the game.
However, it WOULD be nice if Paizo would publish stat blocks as an online supplement -- when I run my games, I've printed statblocks onto 4x6 cards (a la D&D miniatures cards, only with all the information I need, not squished down to a 2x4). It'd be great to cut and paste stats onto cards for my game!
I'll voice the counter opinion to "putting stat blocks in the back." This, more than anything else, is something I detest about large adventures like City of the Spider Queen and Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. I hate having to flip back and forth from the stat blocks in the back to the adventure text. I find it disruptive and time consuming. I like that stat blocks in Dungeon are listed in the location where you're most likely to encounter the NPC/monster.
The real value of having the stat blocks in the back is that they are in a location that is suitable for photocopying. So here you make a copy of them all and then keep that beside the magazine (behind the trusty screen) and you can utilize the stats (and write on them if they start using buffing spells or whatever) and there is no flipping involved whatsover.
Its pretty much the best of all worlds except for the 90 cents your out in paying for teh photocopying machine (those with scanners obvously skip that cost as well).
Better yet...instead of photocopying them you can get out the trusty ol' notebook (usually on sale now that school is about to start again) and the #2 pencil and write everything out about the PC and/or the adventure and it's all write there.
The plus here is that it's written in a way easier for YOU to read/handle, plus it keeps the suspense.
PCs aren't going to see a cover and/or page from an issue of a magazine and instead they may see a notebook with scribbles and numbers. The only way they'll know for sure what's going on is if they have thoroughly read that particular issue you're using.
Sure it takes time...but they say good DMs put in the time it takes to run a good game right?
Oh btw, this is a "KEEP THINGS AS THEY ARE NOW" vote. just fyi
Better yet...instead of photocopying them you can get out the trusty ol' notebook (usually on sale now that school is about to start again) and the #2 pencil and write everything out about the PC and/or the adventure and it's all write there.
The plus here is that it's written in a way easier for YOU to read/handle, plus it keeps the suspense.
PCs aren't going to see a cover and/or page from an issue of a magazine and instead they may see a notebook with scribbles and numbers. The only way they'll know for sure what's going on is if they have thoroughly read that particular issue you're using.
Sure it takes time...but they say good DMs put in the time it takes to run a good game right?
A tad over the top.
The lampooning of the suggestion to place the stat blocks in a group some where seems to imply that the problem with how much effort would be involved but really photocopying the material for an adventure could not take more then 5 or 6 minutes tops.
A notebook with notes in pencil?? I get writer's cramp if I just write my signature now...keyboarding is the way to go.
I've used a word processor to organize my D&D material since 1984...yes, 21 years--my original PC was an IBM clone with two 5.25" floppy drives and no hard drive!
Notebook with notes in pencil--that's so retro as to go back to the 1970's!! No way!
It's actually not a bad idea if the thought of writing with a pencil doesn't make you shudder....
I would like to see ALL the monster/NPC statblocks in Dungeon magazine in the back of the magazine...all of them + published online in an online supplement. Running the AP has made it very annoying to have to keep flipping between pages to look up the NPC's...why not put them all in one place?
Wouldn't putting all the statblocks in the back require *more* flipping (between the adventure location and the NPC statblock)?
I'm afraid Edward Tufte would probably argue against this suggestion. Data should always be presented in context.
Now putting the statblocks in an online supplement might solve your concern, which, if I read you correctly, is using NPCs from different pages in combat simultaneously.
Online supplement would be my preference. Like I said, I would be willing to pay an extra $1 an issue for that.
Putting all the stats in the back of an adventure would also be helpful due to the way I run published adventures.
The reason why is because monsters move around and react to noise/activity in the dungeon, and I write up some notes as to where creatures/NPC's are located in static settings, so I can formulate an appropriate reaction to the PC's moving around the area. My PC's know that if they make too much noise or aren't careful, the whole place is going to come down on them, so having all the stats in one place would be helpful (at least for me.
but I would REALLY prefer an online supplement. Many NPC's that survive the published adventures they appear in become recurring NPC's later in the campaign and I really hate re-writing their stats on a 4x6 card for my NPC file (especially now with the longer stat block format)
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Online supplement would be my preference. Like I said, I would be willing to pay an extra $1 an issue for that.
Putting all the stats in the back of an adventure would also be helpful due to the way I run published adventures.
The reason why is because monsters move around and react to noise/activity in the dungeon, and I write up some notes as to where creatures/NPC's are located in static settings, so I can formulate an appropriate reaction to the PC's moving around the area. My PC's know that if they make too much noise or aren't careful, the whole place is going to come down on them, so having all the stats in one place would be helpful (at least for me.but I would REALLY prefer an online supplement. Many NPC's that survive the published adventures they appear in become recurring NPC's later in the campaign and I really hate re-writing their stats on a 4x6 card for my NPC file (especially now with the longer stat block format)
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I'm totally with you on this. NPCs with stat blocks in their specific rooms is OK but it encourages to think of the adventure local as a dead environment. Everything just stands still until such time as the PCs enter their room and then they react. Furthermore rooms are often large enough that the DM must flip back and forth for relivent information anyway. The whole thing works best for Dungeons but gets less useful in other environments.
Even in Dungeons its often not all that good. One of the best adventures I ever ran was In Defence of the Law (Dungeon #8). I decided that the chaotic defenders of teh Dungeon generally did not want to die so whenever they had taken about half their HPs they ran backward and tried to get some healing. This chaotic and cowardly tactic drove my players crazy as the same bad guys kept retreating and healing back up. They fought what amounted to a huge delaying action falling back from one room to the next until the final room.
The trick however was keeping track of all the NPCs, their hps, spells and current location. A Static stat block for each room is worse then useless in such a situation - you'll quickly forget whic hroom had which bad guy originally and end up searching all over the place for the correct NPC.
I'd like to have the NPCs in the back of the adventure. Then one can photocopy them and my problem is solved.
However a download of the monsters is actually the best of both worlds. I'm happy to simply print off my NPCs and DMs that want the stats in teh room where the monster is supposed to be found can have that too.
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Just a quick thought on Stats as donwload - Most of us have a computer, but there are still people who have no access to the internet. I wouldn't buy a magazine with adventures if I have to think about how ti get the stats...
And I don't think space is such a problem. In earlier issues we had a lot more adventures and more pages. Adding a page or two for a bigger adventure might not be a problem.
And presently I donÄt feel like something is left out because of the new stat block...
I have to say, I love the new statblock format. It takes up twice the space of the old statblocks, but it's infinitely easier to use in a game. No more puttering about an entire paragraph looking for that little "Init +2" statement or a Spot/Listen modifier that might not even be listed. I can immediately see if something has spell resistance or an unusual immunity. It's super user-friendly.
Is this statblock format copyright to Dungeon/WotC, or can third-parties use it?
I´m sure I´m missing something here, but why aren´t the weapons critical multipliers added to the description line?
Now it reads "Light crossbow +1 (1d8/19-20)"
Why not add that "x2" at the end? (1d8/19-20x2)?
I'll let James give you the real answer, but it's my guess that it's because x2 is the default. If it was x3 or x4, I'd wager it'd be on there.
I´m sure I´m missing something here, but why aren´t the weapons critical multipliers added to the description line?
Now it reads "Light crossbow +1 (1d8/19-20)"
Why not add that "x2" at the end? (1d8/19-20x2)?Asmo
I think because x2 is assumed, as everything has a x2 critical if not otherwise listed.
Sorry Robert, I didn't see your post answering the same question until I had alredy started typing this one.
Just a quick thought on Stats as donwload - Most of us have a computer, but there are still people who have no access to the internet. I wouldn't buy a magazine with adventures if I have to think about how ti get the stats...
Yep. I agree. Additional reliance on technology to run an adventure is VERY BAD . . . might as well play PC games.
I appreciate that what Dungeon provides for downloads are supplements and NOT the essential contents of the magazine themselves.
Is this statblock format copyright to Paizo/WotC, or can third-party D&D publishers use it?
Yep. I agree. Additional reliance on technology to run an adventure is VERY BAD . . . might as well play PC games.I appreciate that what Dungeon provides for downloads are supplements and NOT the essential contents of the magazine themselves.
What I'm talking about was never essential to the magazine. I say leave the magazine as is but add the stat blocks to online downloads so that those of use, that want too, can create a monster index and do away with the flipping of pages that is currently required due to the stat blocks being embedded in the text of the room where the creatures lives.
While Jeremy can certainly speak for himself, I think he means to leave stat blocks in the magazine as is, but to also duplicate them in the online supplements.
That way we have the convenience of stat blocks being all in one place, without messing up the format of Dungeon.
Regards,
Jack
While Jeremy can certainly speak for himself, I think he means to leave stat blocks in the magazine as is, but to also duplicate them in the online supplements.
That way we have the convenience of stat blocks being all in one place, without messing up the format of Dungeon.
Regards,
Jack
You hit the nail on the head.