I have always been of the opinion that Greenwood's chronic case of word-processor diarrhea needs to be discouraged, not pandered to.
I can't believe how many pages they burned on this.
Now I read that it's going to be a recurring feature and next issue is going to have like four FR feature articles. Dear God. There's no possible valid excuse for that.
This issue was all downhill after the cover. Considering that I'm now subscribing to Faerun Monthly, I'm glad my subscription is lapsing in a couple months. I gave both mags a try, but only Dungeon is getting renewed.
I gave both mags a try, but only Dungeon is getting renewed.
Now I understand why you subscribe to Dungeon. If you didn't, you'd have nothing to complain about!
That'd really put a kink in your social life, wouldn't it...
If you want to critizise the article, please feel free. Constructive criticism is welcome, but keep your discussions civil. Personal attacks are not productive to these boards.
Jason Bulmahn
Associate Editor of Dragon
Oh, come on, admit it, you laughed. It's not like he doesn't bring it on himself. It's like a cable TV channel package. He chooses the 'Whiner' channel packaged with the 'Feedback Loop' channel so that he can get the 'Attention' channel for free :D
I am very excited about the new series, and can't wait to see it. It seems to have the start-your-campaign-here level of detail the wotc sourcebooks lacks and I sorely miss. Articles like the Diamond Lake and (I assume) Crimmor are great tools for establishing ready-to-play settings quickly, which is just what I need to run a game.
The editorial in Dragon 333 brought a big grin on my face, and I am happy that Paizo finally is giving Faerun the attention it deserves. I have not bought Dragon very often the last couple of years, now I do.
I agree that inventing yet another mechanic for possession is probably unneccessary, and are surprised that the paizo editors did not catch that.
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Before I say anything, I want to make it clear that I have nothing against Ed Greenwood personally. I'm not a fan of the Forgotten Realms, so I've read very little he's written. Historically, my least favorite feature in Dragon is certainly Under Command. In a distant second was Elminster's Guide to the Realms. None of those locations were ever featured in my game. I believe he authored those - I thought they were generally well written, but they were written in a way that was useless to me. The mapping style also did little to endear the column to me.
But, I actually thought the information in Cities of the Realms was good. I do, however, have a few criticisms.
I think the map could have been improved. I wish the map had included the "outlying" areas clearly. Things like the midair pipe probably should have been marked on the map. Some text relating to the map was needlessly confusing. For example, the map shows a street called the "Dausann" one block to the east of "The Drae". I believe the street heading South from "The Drae" is also Dausann, creating a "U" shaped street. However, heading north from the Drae is another road that lines up with what I suspect is Dausann. However, there is a brief mention of the High Ride making a "River Turn". I assume that if one heads north from the Drae yo are still on High Ride. They did type "The High Ride" twice. I don't understand why they wouldn't print it the second time in a place where the street name was actually confusing.
One would generally assume that "up river" means closer to the source, meaning the river runs from east to west. I'm certainly surprised and confused that the "polluters", like tanneries would be "upriver" of the city, and even more surprised that the wealthy would live down river from the city and all that means. Of course, perhaps if the direction of the river's flow were marked I'd find I had gotten confused.
Regarding the text, I think most of it was good. It appears that Ed likes to dress up his words more than is necessary. I personally didn't care for the (translation) following a "colloquial expression". I can probably figure out that ground spears are asparagus, or an asparagus like item. In any case, I don't know if the translation is necessary in a fantasy world. They also chose to keep a number of words untranslated. I assume, for instance, that "treebark syrup" is like maple syrup. I don't think it matters, but why not be consistent (and hopefully consistent in not translating the words) instead?
The writing had a tendency to become unnecessarily "frilly". For example, the transition between "general text" intended for the audience that knows this is a fictional world flows right into brief club reviews by "Local hostess Jalantha Truard". Most of the information in the previous section didn't have to be clearly for readers of a magazine, but perhaps it should then have been presented as a travel guide?
I do appreciate the level of detail, and would certainly use this city in place of something "nondescript" in any gameworld I find myself using.
DeadDM, thanks for taking the time to actually critique the article instead of just teeing off at it. I know I might be a little sensitive as a FR fan, but sometimes I think there are some that don't even take the time to read some of Ed's work, they just decide that they don't like it becuase it is in the FR.
As far as some of the quirks you discribes, Ed has, since the early days of Dragon Magazine, written his Realms articles as himself, being given a glimpse of another world by Elminster, and as such, tends to translate some things as if he were explaining a foreign land to an outsider. It can be jarring compared to how most articles are written now. But to me, who was used to the old days of the Ecology articles being all story, then a little bit of crunch at the end in the footnotes, its really not as jarring.
I would ask that anyone that is tempted to tee off at Ed really honestly try to read an article without first deciding that you don't like it. One of the reasons that Ed is as well regarded as he is is becuase of his "diarreah of the word processor."
And DeadDM, it isn't likely that Ed hasn't thought of things like the direction the river flows, if the polluters are up or downstream, and the like. Its more likely he ran out of space and had to cut something from the article.
I am also a little concerned that Dragon is going to be swamped with FR material, especially long, overly-detailed articles written by Greenwood. While it is possible for FR DMs to use generic material, it is next to impossible for non FR GMs to use (or care about) menu items in obscure restaurants in minor cities in the Realms.
While I understand the desire for Realms GMs to get fluff over crunch, why does it need to be in the Dragon? Wizards publishes several books a year and there are bookshelves full of older books. If there is that much of a demand for new material, I'm sure Realms fans could support another magazine.
If the Dragon starts to contain significant portions of Realms-only material, it will become worthless to me. I would be left with little choice but to drop my subscription until that was no longer the case.
Swamped? I did not hear FR fans complain when Paizo gave us Hardby a while back. I sympathize with Greyhawk fans for the lack of wotc support, but "swamped" after a 12 page article is pushing it.
That said, I would have preferred to see this style of article in a book, instead in a magazine. Lets say ten articles in a single book would save me lots of money.
Sadly wotc tries to cover as much ground as possible in the FR books, and don't give the level of detail of the Hardby/Crimmor article in their books.
Creative Director
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While I understand the desire for Realms GMs to get fluff over crunch, why does it need to be in the Dragon? Wizards publishes several books a year and there are bookshelves full of older books. If there is that much of a demand for new material, I'm sure Realms fans could support another magazine.
Although the Dragon folk can address this better than I can... one of the main reasons FR stuff "has to be in Dragon" is because it's one of the only places such material CAN go. WotC generally puts out one Forgotten Realms book a quarter, and aside from that, there's really not a lot of places for the FR fan to get more material.
As for "significant portions" of Realms material, the fact is that for a non-FR fan, half a page of FR stuff is probably "significant" while to a FR fan, it needs to be the focus of an issue in order to be significant. The only sane way to address the issue is to aim for somewhere in between.
In any case, I'd hardly call the article on Crimmor a waste. You can use the illustrations in the article as player handouts for your own game. You can use the map of the city for any city map in your campaign that may suddenly (and unexpectedly) end up being visited by your PCs. Heck, if your players know nothing about FR you can use the article as written to add detail to any city they visit.
Saying that Dragon will become worthless if it contains Forgotten Realms material seems petty and narrow-minded. If, in order for Dragon to be useful to you, you requrie that Every Single Article speak directly to you and your game, you're just setting yourself up for a lot of disapointment. We don't print the magazine for one reader. We print it for tens of thousands of them. Not all of them like the same things. That's what makes being human so fun! (Well... that, and the bonus feat.)
Nor did many of us complain when we were hit with month after month of "get ready for Eberron" articles. If you like Eberron, thats great. If not, there was a limit to what the articles were worth to you.
This issue and next issue (which is a commemorative FR issue, by the way) are not likely to be indicative of how much FR material is going to be in future products. Ed has even mentioned that the Cities of FR articles will only be perhaps every few months, and thats being optimistic.
"Saying that Dragon will become worthless if it contains Forgotten Realms material seems petty and narrow-minded. If, in order for Dragon to be useful to you, you requrie that Every Single Article speak directly to you and your game, you're just setting yourself up for a lot of disapointment."
That being said: You still don't think that four features in a single issue is excessive? Four?
Surely "moderation" has some meaning at the Paizo offices?
Although the Dragon folk can address this better than I can... one of the main reasons FR stuff "has to be in Dragon" is because it's one of the only places such material CAN go. WotC generally puts out one Forgotten Realms book a quarter, and aside from that, there's really not a lot of places for the FR fan to get more material.
Only one per quarter?
Umm... hate to break it to you, guy, but that's a LOT of FR material. Really don't need more. FR fans are well supported.
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Creative Director
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"You still don't think that four features in a single issue is excessive? Four?
Surely "moderation" has some meaning at the Paizo offices?
Four FR articles in a single issue that is focused on FR is not excessvie.
Four FR articles in every issue IS excessvie.
Four FR articles in a year is negligent.
The simple fact is that, according to the evidence we've seen here at Paizo... including FR material in a magazine (be it Dragon or Dungeon) seems to increase that magazine's sales. So you can expect more FR material going forward than you've seen over the last year.
That still said, the majority of the articles you'll see in both magazines are going to be "world-neutral."
"Four FR articles in a single issue that is focused on FR is not excessvie."
So, when do the other settings each get "their" whole issues?
Fair is fair, right?
I just hope somebody at Paizo grasps the idea of what a screwed-up practice this is. The only message it sends is that it's dumb for a non-FR fanatic to buy future issues of Dragon sight-unseen (that is, to subscribe). If that's what you're attempting to commuicate with this plan, you're doing an amazing job.
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Director of Games
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"Four FR articles in a single issue that is focused on FR is not excessvie."
So, when do the other settings each get "their" whole issues?
Fair is fair, right?
I just hope somebody at Paizo grasps the idea of what a screwed-up practice this is. The only message it sends is that it's dumb for a non-FR fanatic to buy future issues of Dragon sight-unseen (that is, to subscribe). If that's what you're attempting to commuicate with this plan, you're doing an amazing job.
This is not an issue of fair. FR has been getting very little coverage in previous months, and with the upcoming release of the Waterdeep book, it seemed like a good time to do a FR issue to give Realms dieheards a bit to chew on. No one here is suggesting 4 FR articles every issue, just like no one here is suggesting 4 Eberron or 4 Greyhawk articles every issue. We are not sending "a message" here, just balancing things out a bit.
Dragon has a lot of content and not every article in every issue will be useful to everyone. We shoot for something useful in every issue to everyone.
Jason Bulmahn
Associate Editor of Dragon
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Creative Director
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"Four FR articles in a single issue that is focused on FR is not excessvie."
So, when do the other settings each get "their" whole issues?
Fair is fair, right?
I just hope somebody at Paizo grasps the idea of what a screwed-up practice this is. The only message it sends is that it's dumb for a non-FR fanatic to buy future issues of Dragon sight-unseen (that is, to subscribe). If that's what you're attempting to commuicate with this plan, you're doing an amazing job.
Currently, the only settings WotC directly supports are Forgotten Realms and Eberron. Eberron hasn't been around long enough for a special anneversary type issue yet. Forgotten Realms has been neglected from both magazines for over a year, so it was high time for some FR stuff.
A more constructive way to write the post you just did would be to ask us if we're planning on doing a special celebration issue of Greyhawk or Maztica or Spelljammer or whatever. Insulting posts get nothing but angry editors.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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If that's what you're attempting to commuicate with this plan, you're doing an amazing job.
This is a massive overreaction. You're entitled to overreact massively, of course, but let's call a spade a spade.
Wizards just released a game product and a novel about Waterdeep. We wanted to send a message to FR fans that they were not forgotten in the pages of the magazine that first gave that setting life, so 335 seemed like a natural opportunity to do that.
It's a special issue. We won't inundate the readers with so many FR articles in one issue in the foreseeable future. Further, while a lot of the issue _is_ in fact dedicated to the Realms, many of the articles are easily usable in any campaign setting. The Spellcraft article, for example, uses the bards of Waterdeep as a two-paragraph framing device, with the bulk of the article being new spells.
There are going to be Realms articles in Dragon. Flat out. I'll also include as much Greyhawk stuff as I can (I direct everyone's eyes to the Age of Worms Adventure Path), and we'll continue to highlight Eberron because it is the "new" setting for the game, and the focus of most of Wizards of the Coast's lines.
I should note that one of the biggest surprises of Origins was the large number of readers who approached the booth and told me how much they appreciated the Eberron content in the magazine. Given the fairly negative comments about our Eberron coverage here in this folder, I was a bit taken aback.
All of us have different tastes, and all of us appreciate different elements of D&D. Dragon has got to serve several aspects and factions of D&D fandom, and that means that every so often there's going to be an article (or even an issue) that doesn't appeal to you as strongly as you may have liked.
My job is to find the perfect balance, and keep most people happy most of the time. Each reader has got to decide for him or herself whether or not the magazine is accomplishing that. Obviously, some people are going to decide no, but it's my hope that those people are replaced by at least one reader who is suddenly getting something from the magazine that he wasn't getting before.
--Erik Mona
"Not when it comes to drinking."
That explains the flying monkeys.
Oh, and do a special celebration issue of Greyhawk or Maztica or Spelljammer or whatever when you finally sober-up.
"My job is to find the perfect balance..."
Fair enough. I'll share my idea of a perfect balance for you to consider or not consider as you will:
I would like to see a maximum of one world-specific article in each issue and would not like to see the same world featured in more than one issue in a row.
I thought the article and accompanying art and maps on Crimmor was excellent, and I have no interest in playing in FR now or in the forseeable future. The map of the city and a lot of the details (especially the crime and punishment section) are going to slide neatly into a future Wheel of Time adventure. I think the material is thoroughly adaptable, and Wheel is a world without elves, dwarves or high magic.
Honestly, I haven't found an excessive amount of Realms stuff in either Dragon or Dungeon in recent months, and what there has been certainly includes material that can be useful in other campaign settings.
D&D is a game with many expressions and flavor, and I for one, enjoy reading features that offer a glimpse into all of those worlds -- even when they don't apply directly to my gaming experience.
His writing is a clear cut above most game writing I see these days, and his style makes me start thinking of adventure ideas as I read (and isn't that the whole point?).
I haven't read the article in question but this reminded me of Carl Sargent's writing style. The biggest reason I'm a fan of his work is that you can literally pick a paragraph at random from any book he's written and there will usually always be some sort of adventure hook in it.
Reading through Ivid the Undying is like DM heaven. You go into fits of ecstasy over all the adventure hooks just leaping off the page at you :D
No one here is suggesting 4 FR articles every issue, just like no one here is suggesting 4 Eberron or 4 Greyhawk articles every issue. We are not sending "a message" here, just balancing things out a bit.
So what you're really saying is that you're going to put out an issue that focuses on Greyhawk with 4 Greyhawk articles in it, aren't you?
Hah! I'm on to your plan! How very cunning of you to admit it right in our faces by saying you WON'T be doing it!
I'm going to go and spread this goss... err... news to every Greyhawk messageboard across the net!
Vive le Greyhawk!
I should note that one of the biggest surprises of Origins was the large number of readers who approached the booth and told me how much they appreciated the Eberron content in the magazine. Given the fairly negative comments about our Eberron coverage here in this folder, I was a bit taken aback.
While this post might not be in keeping with the rest of the thread, it does respond to what Mr. Mona just wrote.
There is a great deal of negativity that runs through this Paizo website (from its “fans” and “supporters”), and that is a shame. I watched with that "train-wreck fascination" the "discussion" about Wil Save. There was a great deal of venom by a handful of people, made even more ridiculous by the fact that many of them were "shocked" that Wil Wheaton took some of their comments personally. When they expressed their incredulity, I was reminded of Mark Antony's speech from Julius Caesar: "But Brutus is an honorable man." Many of the comments were cruel—how could someone not be insulted by “Wil Save is the Jar Jar Binks of Dungeon”?
It is disheartening that there are a select few voices here that scream the loudest, and, unfortunately, their shouts are so very negatively critical. It is one thing to have a strong opinion about something and to voice that opinion, but it seems quite another to be so constantly critical and negative, and repetitive and repetitive and repetitive about it.
When I started reading this thread, I thought, "oh, my, here we go again. They've set their sights on Ed Greenwood."
I think the major problem in this winter of our discontent is that you can take from the posts on the website a drastically different opinion of the work you all are doing based upon a few voices. While there are things I would change if I were on the editing or writing staff, I refuse to snark about petty things. This is one of those troubling aspects about positive and negative feedback. When someone’s doing a good job, no one really talks about it. When that same person does something that isn’t appreciated, the world is coming to an end.
I guess, where I’m headed, though, apparently, not in the most efficient manner, is that I enjoy the magazines, I enjoy what you all are doing, and I hope that you don’t become too discouraged by the negative energy drains that must seem constant to you. For my part, here is a major restoration post for you.
Well, I don't think there's anything I can say on this thread that hasn't already been said, so I'll keep it short. As a fan of Greenwood's style, I thoroughly enjoyed the Crimmor article - and I look forward to the next FR article in Dragon, whenever that may come. Keep up the good work Paizo!
"There is a great deal of negativity that runs through this Paizo website (from its 'fans' and 'supporters'), and that is a shame."
Again, people are less likely to air strong criticism to a stranger in public because they don't want to be cause a scene.
The internet (and before that, letter correspondence) allows people to "let loose" a little more because it's less personal and less potentially volatile than face-to-face interaction with a stranger.
So Erik is always going to get more complaints here and in Prison Mail and more compliments in person. The best thing to do is to accept it all as honest feedback and listen as much as your busy schedule allows for, and so far he seems to be doing just that.
"Wil Save is the Jar Jar Binks of Dungeon?"
I resent that!
I like Jar Jar. :)
Again, people are less likely to air strong criticism to a stranger in public because they don't want to be cause a scene.
The internet (and before that, letter correspondence) allows people to "let loose" a little more because it's less personal and less potentially volatile than face-to-face interaction with a stranger.
That may be the case, but it seems rather cowardly. I would hope that simply because something grants us a sense of anonymity, it doesn't mean that we would abuse it or use it in a manner that degrades us. I think we should expect better of each other.
There are ways of voicing disatisfaction without becoming caustic or going for a cheap laugh. We live in a civilized society, or so we would believe. Many of us have grown up with the game, and it's time that we acted more like adults than spoiled children.
To speak directly to you, Yamo, I can't say that I like Jar Jar. But that is a discussion for another time and place (in a galaxy far, far away?)
Okay, in the interest of walking a mile in the other guys shoes, let me point this one out. A few months back when the article on the Xen'drik Drow came out, I read through it, and even though I have no intention on playing Eberron, I got me to thinking could I use any of the racial feat trees in the articles. Even if I never do, it got my creative juices flowing, and trust me, dark elves in my campaign are not going to look anything like the Xen'drik drow do.
Back when the articles on the Shifter feats ran, I read them, and found them mildly interesting. Now I may let a PC lythari in the realm take one or two of them that make sense for a full blown lycanthrope.
The point is, a well written game article, even if you never use it, can really spark your imagination, but for those of us that do use a specific setting, that extra bit of buy in to the article makes it worth that much more.
I would never call for an end to Eberron articles, and if a WHOLE issue ran with just Eberron articles I wouldn't cancel my subscription. Look back honestly over the last two years or so and tell me if you really think FR has gotten equal treatment. Some good articles here or there are good to keep us terminally unhip old Realms gesers going.
And one last note, I think some of you that have never played in the Realms see it as just another medieval type D&D setting, so why can't we be happy with generic articles. I you think that, and have no desire to find out what is special about the Realms, you are entitled to your opinions, but it isn't just "Oerth 2," and if you don't want to confirm that yourselves, just trust those of us that have spent a great deal of time with the setting.
"That may be the case, but it seems rather cowardly."
There's nothing brave about confronting a stranger to complain angerly in a public place, unless you think there's a good chance he'll respond by whipping-out a firearm and blasting you, in which case you're still much more stupid than brave.
I work in downtown Seattle every weekday. It would be easy for me to hunt down the Paizo offices a short distance away and barge in there demanding to speak to Mr. Mona so that I could let him know exactly what's on my mind. I don't do this.
Print is a simply a much better medium for this purpose. Mainly because the person recieving the complaint can peruse it and reply at his leisure without feeling cornered and aggressively pressed for a response. It's also less personal, with no body language or tone of voice affecting the message, so the person recieving the complaint is much less likely to be "weirded-out" or otherwise made uncomfortable by the spectacle of a total stranger up in his face and ranting about his job performence.
It's simply more polite and productive.
The sad thing is, is that most of the anti-Realms spam and most of the Anti-Eberron spam (and even sadder, most of the anti-Wil spam) comes from a hardcore of Greyhawkers. I love Greyhawk to bits, and would find much more use for a Greyhawk article that a Realms or Eberrron one. That being said, I want a magazine in continueing existence that can print these articles, and generic ones, much more than I need the mag to be full of Greyhawk. Erik is doing us a big, big favour, and I can imagine potentially putting his job in jeopardy, by going to the wall for Greyhawk as much as he does. Just because he listens to our feedback, don't take advantage.
M
It's simply more polite and productive.
*blink*
. . .
*blink*
Did I miss something? I'm sure Hell didn't freeze over. Did the world end whilst I was asleep? I'm confused.
The sad thing is, is that most of the anti-Realms spam and most of the Anti-Eberron spam (and even sadder, most of the anti-Wil spam) comes from a hardcore of Greyhawkers.
A couple of years ago, it would've been the reverse. FR fans spamming anti-Greyhawk. But yeah, I'll pay that these days it seems to be the GH fans are the most vociferous. Personally, I'd wish they'd shut-up. They make GH fans like me look bad... well... maybe in my case, it's that they make me look *worse*, but you get my point :D
"The sad thing is, is that most of the anti-Realms spam and most of the Anti-Eberron spam (and even sadder, most of the anti-Wil spam) comes from a hardcore of Greyhawkers."
You're proposing some sort of a connection here?
Why did I dislike Forgotten Realms for well over a decade before I ever read a Greyhawk book, I wonder?
It's true that one of the reasons I read Paizo's mags is the Greyhawk content, but not liking Forgotten Realms is a totally unrelated issue.
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I haven't picked up/read the issue yet, but I got to thumb through a friends copy for all of about 6 minutes. Before I give my impression, I will give my disclaimers.
I don't care for FR (although I love Maztica).
I am ambivilant to Ed Greenwood's writing.
I love Greyhawk and you could not publish too much of it for my tastes.
That being said, Ed's article looked fine. DeadDM brought up a couple of good specific critisisms (Don't drink the water!). I may have specifics to add when I give it a better read-through, but, overall I think it was fine.
I am not chagrinned by a FR devoted issue, I'll be picking it up at the store as per the usual. It'll probably be a low utility issue for me, but that happens only one or two issues out of the year, so my consumer dollar isn't annoyed. I think you all are doing a great job with the balancing act and feel my money is being well spent. So, just a vote primarily for "don't you go changin'!"
But I'll still take all the Greyhawk you wanna scoop on!
... Well, I was going to make a comment in support of FR content (even though I'm actually an Eberron fan), but I'm instead going to just shake my head sadly, and suggest that Erik and the rest of the Dragon staff take all negative comments made on this board with a grain of salt...
(Yes, I can make positive commentary. I just refrain from doing so, as normally, the only commentary I can offer is "Thumbs up!", and I dislike threadcrapping...)
My two cents.
When I DM, it's almost always homebrew. I love starting a world from scratch and building from there. That being said, I'm a huge fan of campaign settings. Eberron, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Ghostwalk.
It's unlikely that I'll ever dm a non-homebrew campaign, with the possible exception of the ghostwalk. But I love FR, love Eberron. I may never use Xendrik, but a different drow society from standard finds welcome home to make my setting stick out. Bits and pieces of the Eberron Campaign setting, as well as the FRCS inspire elements of my own setting. By no means is it useless to a homebrewer.
Is an entire issue devoted to a single setting excessive? That depends. If there were issue after issue with FR content stealing all the pages, that would be the case. However, FR fans have gone a year with barely any content in the pages of Dragon, the setting's motherland. One issue with a strong bent towards the realms is a fine treat, which detractors can just put up with.
The classic campaigns issue many of us are looking forwards to will likely devote none of its time to generic material, and that's just fine by me.
You know . . . I try to be diplomatic and not take thinks to heart, and to try and offer up reasons and sound arguements, to have actual debates and conversations, and when all else fails, to agree to disagree.
But I'll be damned if someone tells me to "deal with it."
When you make a comment akin to "Yeah, what he said!" it makes you look like you are just following the Alpha Male.
Alright, I apologize . . . that was low and slightly unwarrented, but GV and Yamo . . . do you like anything? Honestly? Your main critism of Ed is that his article is too long and should be edited more . . . which in all honesty is more of a critism of his editors.
If you don't like the man's writing fine, but calling his work "diarreah of the word processor" and saying that he shouldn't be encouraged, and simply labeling his work "overkill" seems to be a serious oversimplification of what the man did. And the first comment comes dangerously close to a personal attack on his talent, rather than an objective critism.
No, you are under no compulsion to write intelligent critism, but it would be nice in the interest of actually having a discussion. Neither of you seems to have any love for anything related to the magazine at all. You batter Erik mercilessly. Why do you even come here, to prove how much better you think you are to everyone else.
We get the idea, you are soooo far above us. Now either join the conversation or get over yourselves.
(P.S. yes, you have the right to keep making snarky non productive posts, and the flip side of that is we have the right to fire right back)
"Yeesh. I start a thread about a particular article, I post specific, constructive criticisms, and Yamo takes it over and turns it into yet another FR vs. Eberron vs. Greyhawk debate."
No, I did not. Jason Bulmahn was the first in this thread to mention any settins other than FR, and even then, not in the context of promoting them over it.
Please make a better effort to get your facts straight.
"Once again, Yamo is on target. The truth hurts. Deal with it."
I would have liked to haven seen this article not be allowed to ramble on past the point of entertainment or useful detail as it does, but I think Dragon definitely has real editors, otherwise I wouldn't bother saying so.
DId anyone see the little "We Goofed" link? I won't be reading the article for another couple weeks, but until then. . . free city map for my homebrew!
This will be a perfect fit for Harbis. . . port town and cash cow for the oligarchial Kingdom of Joipar, one of the Six Realms of Wistera's northern continent. I'm sure I can use the text too, especially if there's a lot of foods and taverns. Harbis is often used as a cultural showcase to justify the political status quo, and a bunch of specific descriptions/flavors of city locales would fit very nicely.
This will be a perfect fit for Harbis. . . port town and cash cow for the oligarchial Kingdom of Joipar, one of the Six Realms of Wistera's northern continent. I'm sure I can use the text too, especially if there's a lot of foods and taverns. Harbis is often used as a cultural showcase to justify the political status quo, and a bunch of specific descriptions/flavors of city locales would fit very nicely.
Sounds a lot like Hardby, port city and cash cow for the oligarchical Domain of Greyhawk, one of the Free Cities of the Flanaess. :P