Hey guys-
As I've been wading my way through the latest flood of Dungeon submissions, I've come up with a few new tips for contributors (in addition to those that I posted on the "Query Response?" thread). Check it out:
*PUT YOUR NAME AT THE TOP OF YOUR MANUSCRIPT - Make life easy for the editors - put your name at the top of the first page of the manuscript. Subs usually get printed out, and if we have to go back to your email, figure out who sent what, and write your name at the top of your manuscript, well... after fifty repetitions or so, we start to get grumpy.
*INCLUDE THE SDF FORM AS A SEPARATE FILE - It makes filing a lot easier if you attach the SDF form as a separate file. And while we're at it - what's wrong with Word documents for the query itself? Why ya gotta be flossin' the PDFs like that, makin' me open a new program?
*DON'T JUST PASTE YOUR QUERY IN THE EMAIL BODY - I presume that if you're going to be writing the adventure, you have a word processing program. Use it. (If you have no other option, well, okay, paste the query... but Santa Claus knows if you're lying.)
*PROOFREAD - Yeah, I said this before. I still mean it. "Mary, (had) a lid, tell lam" will get by spellcheck, but it makes us poor copyediting folks die a little inside.
Last but not least, one quick stylistic thing:
*SHOW, DON'T TELL - Instead of saying "a really cool trap" or "a mind-bending puzzle", give us a QUICK idea of what it involves ("a trapped tea kettle that explodes when someone says 'crumpet'" or "a musical puzzle based around a theremin-like orb" is plenty long enough for us to get the idea). Okay, neither of those examples are partiularly cool, but we get a dozen proposal a day saying "these items/traps/puzzles are so incredible that mere words cannot describe their glory". Some, invariably, are not. Describe accordingly.
There's plenty more where that came home, but it's Friday and I'm going home... happy 4th of July, everybody! IN YOUR FACE, KING GEORGE!
-James Sutter
Dungeon Editorial Intern
*INCLUDE THE SDF FORM AS A SEPARATE FILE - It makes filing a lot easier if you attach the SDF form as a separate file. And while we're at it - what's wrong with Word documents for the query itself? Why ya gotta be flossin' the PDFs like that, makin' me open a new program?
Because not all of us can afford $500 for a program that we don't like and never, otherwise, use.
I would've sent an RTF but I wanted to show the fact that my query fit on two pages, double-spaced. RTF files don't always keep margins from program to program, so it could've looked like three pages in another program. Which meant you would've been complaining that people don't stick to the limits :rolleyes:
And everybody has Acrobat, especially a publishing company...
Thanks for the tips, James the Intern. :)
Because not all of us can afford $500 for a program that we don't like and never, otherwise, use.
I would've sent an RTF but I wanted to show the fact that my query fit on two pages, double-spaced. RTF files don't always keep margins from program to program, so it could've looked like three pages in another program. Which meant you would've been complaining that people don't stick to the limits :rolleyes:
And everybody has Acrobat, especially a publishing company...
Delgath... have you considered Open Office?
Price tag: free
- Ashavan
Delgath... have you considered Open Office?Price tag: free
Last time I tried it, it was so buggy and slow that I was better off slamming my head against a brick wall and using my hair, and the blood dripping from my smashed skull, as a paint brush to scribe words on the wall.
So yeah, I considered it.
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Delgath... have you considered Open Office?Price tag: free
Last time I tried it, it was so buggy and slow that I was better off slamming my head against a brick wall and using my hair, and the blood dripping from my smashed skull, as a paint brush to scribe words on the wall.So yeah, I considered it.
As much as you want to slam me personally, at least I take proactive steps to insure my happiness. A lot of people have taken the time and effort to suggest methods to help you out. You haven't even bothered to thank any of them for trying. Is that the way you were raised?
You know what you could do? Sign up for a class at your nearest community college. Normally you can get a class for $35 or so. Once you're a student, you can buy a "student version" of office, for $4.95. $40 total and you can have the whole office suite.
Now, that might be too much for you, but if that is the case, you might want to try to find something more lucrative than writing for Dungeon. Good luck.
Could we perhaps avoid this thread devolving into flames and insults? I find it exceedingly helpful when one of the staff comes along and offers help to make our submissions better, and I for one would appreciate it if the thread could move along without an insult being tossed out.
Hmmm, should I be worried that James posted his tips the same day he sent me an email about my two submissions? :) I know I didn't put my names on the actual submission queries, D'oh! That won't happen again.
Hey guys-
As I've been wading my way through the latest flood of Dungeon submissions, I've come up with a few new tips for contributors (in addition to those that I posted on the "Query Response?" thread). Check it out:
-James Sutter
Dungeon Editorial...
Very helpful, Mr. Sutter. Thank you for the time and effort.
I haven't had an article published in Dragon since before Windows came out. After so long away I'd been thinking of serving something up for Dungeon, but I never would have intuited the suggestions you've offered here. Big help! Now I know what I'll have to learn to better my chances.
You know what you could do? Sign up for a class at your nearest community college. Normally you can get a class for $35 or so. Once you're a student, you can buy a "student version" of office, for $4.95. $40 total and you can have the whole office suite.Now, that might be too much for you, but if that is the case, you might want to try to find something more lucrative than writing for Dungeon. Good luck.
Sadly microsoft products aren't that cheap, even for students... the educational version of office runs around $100, and I don't believe the price for word goes down much below that if purchased separately.
I sympathize Delgath, as I know the costs to keep a computer up and running with decent software quickly become prohibitive, but I also have to say -- I'm a secretary. I don't make gobs of dough. I struggle financially a lot of the time. I make having that software a priority. I want to write, I put my writing first, and I sacrifice so that I have the tools I need for the job.
If you want to write for Dungeon or Dragon badly enough, you'll find a way... be it struggling through the evil bugginess of Open Office, or some other solution.
I have great faith in the ingenuity of gamers.
- Ashavan
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Maybe it depends on the University. The large state university in my town has a "group license" for its students, and it only costs $5-$15 for most programs. I'm certain I got my Windows XP for $4.95, and I don't think it was much more for Office Suite. But I did drop $200 for Frontpage, since I bought that on my own.
A Note for Discussion:
In my submissions, I have been attempting to set a mood or a tone for the adventure, but I have not provided any real game mechanics. I am wondering what the preference is among the contributors. . .
Here's a 2am, bad example:
- The party must make their way past a dark figure in spiked armor, who obsessively guards the frayed rope-bridge leading north. His red standard flips briskly in the breeze, declaring him the Black Knight. He is honor-bound to protect the way north, and will only relent if he is addressed in the manner befitting his rank and station. He silently swings back and forth at the edge of the bridge, one fist on the pommel of his greatword. His red rimmed eyes scan the horizon for his next challenge.
OR
- The party will encounter the Black Knight, a Fighter 1/Paladin 5/Blackguard 2. He will fight to the death to protect the way North, but can be convinced to stand aside with a DC 20 Diplomacy check. He waits on a 3' wide rope-bridge that is suspended over a 60' pit. The ropes are frayed, with a hardness of 0 and 2 hp. If any rope is cut, the bridge will collapse into the pit below.
Any thoughts on these? In my mind, they are both descriptive in their own way. But which is preferred in submissions? I'd come up with better examples, but it's very late and I'm as frayed as an old rope-bridge myself.
- Chris
Creative Director
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A quick note on those pesky SDFs. We need them. We can't accept an adventure without them. If you don't have access to a scanner or anything like that that'll let you email us an image of your signed SDF, the cheepest answer is to just drop that SDF and adventure querry into the mail with a stamp. It'll take longer to get to us, but as you all have hopefully noticed... we don't normally require quick action at this early in the process.
A Note for Discussion:
In my submissions, I have been attempting to set a mood or a tone for the adventure, but I have not provided any real game mechanics. I am wondering what the preference is among the contributors. . .
First of all, the cooler your proposal the better chance you have. Now sometimes, adding game mechanics can actually make something sound special. (As an example, we recently received a proposal for an adventure that included an NPC fighter/assassin/ghost faced killer. In that case, the NPC's stats made her sound cooler than just her description.) Generally speaking, however, descriptive text is more interesting, and more endearing, than game stats.
That being said, we do like to know that you have a solid grasp of the rules and know something about game balance before we accept your proposal, which is one of the reasons we ask for the challenges to be overcome section with a breakdown of the monsters.
That being said, we do like to know that you have a solid grasp of the rules and know something about game balance before we accept your proposal, which is one of the reasons we ask for the challenges to be overcome section with a breakdown of the monsters.
Good Mister Walker,
Pardon but I lost the meaning of that last sentence somewhere between the words overcome and section.
Did a few words get accidentally deleted or am I just petting zoo slow tonight?
::moseys over to the kibble dispenser, dreaming of quarters::
What if it looked like this, instead, Jade:
which is one of the reasons we ask for the 'challenges to be overcome' section with a breakdown of the monsters.
Does that help?
What if it looked like this, instead, Jade:
which is one of the reasons we ask for the 'challenges to be overcome' section with a breakdown of the monsters.
Does that help?
Lol. Thank you, friend.
That clears it all up quite nicely.
::zen-masticates his newly won kibble as an eight year old mistakes his head for a conga drum::
Babaloo!
Glad I could help. :)
Now sometimes, adding game mechanics can actually make something sound special
My original 2am thoughts on this were based somewhat on Mr. Simcoe's "Thone of Iuz" proposal, where he stated that he actually had King Bog One-Eye's stats in his proposal (or something similar). That NPC/monster was too cool, and I can understand how it was helpful for the staff's decision.
which is one of the reasons we ask for the challenges to be overcome section with a breakdown of the monsters.
You mean an actual list of every monster/NPC, with proposed templates, class levels, etc? Most of my proposals don't go into much detail on any of that stuff, with only a few examples spread out around the narrative. If that's what you mean. . . I can definitely start doing that.
One question though: Does it help the Dungeon staff because they get a sense of overall CRs, the space and frequency of encounters, variaitions of resources required by the PCs, or something else? I want to impart every idea in the best, most helpful way possible for you guys, so if you could elaborate a little, that would be great.
*INCLUDE THE SDF FORM AS A SEPARATE FILE - It makes filing a lot easier if you attach the SDF form as a separate file. And while we're at it - what's wrong with Word documents for the query itself? Why ya gotta be flossin' the PDFs like that, makin' me open a new program?Because not all of us can afford $500 for a program that we don't like and never, otherwise, use.
I would've sent an RTF but I wanted to show the fact that my query fit on two pages, double-spaced. RTF files don't always keep margins from program to program, so it could've looked like three pages in another program. Which meant you would've been complaining that people don't stick to the limits :rolleyes:
And everybody has Acrobat, especially a publishing company...
Check out Open Office
Delgath... have you considered Open Office?Price tag: free
- Ashavan
Guess I should have read the rest of the thread before posting...Oh well...I just got excited about supporting Open Office and communities of their ilk.
be it struggling through the evil bugginess of Open Office, or some other solution.
I have great faith in the ingenuity of gamers.
- Ashavan
I use Open Office quite a bit and have only noticed one annoying bug where it sometimes decides that Canadian English (technically true I guess) does not really exist and switches to a German Dictionary. Otherwise I've found that it runs bug free. Have you looked to see if your version is the most recent?
That said you may use features I don't even know exist that are buggy - but nobody having to submit an adventure should need such features.
A few questions, though thanks for starting this thread as well as responding in my prior one. All the responses have been very helpful.
Firstly, I don't need an SDF form with a query, correct?
Secondly, would it be bad form, if say my initial query was missing one of the submission elements noted in this thread, to re-edit the query letter and resend it? The same could be applied to sending it to your new email address (as you said for your own internal organization demands).
Thirdly, is the turn around on general responses like "we've got it, looking at it now", still somewhere in the three month region?
Anyway, thanks again :)
Firstly, I don't need an SDF form with a query, correct?
No, you have to include an SDF with the query as well.
You mean an actual list of every monster/NPC, with proposed templates, class levels, etc? Most of my proposals don't go into much detail on any of that stuff, with only a few examples spread out around the narrative. If that's what you mean. . . I can definitely start doing that.
Well, no, you don't have to include every monster and every grunt, but we would like to see the class/templates/levels for the main NPC villains/allies, as well as anything that is particularly unusual.
One question though: Does it help the Dungeon staff because they get a sense of overall CRs, the space and frequency of encounters, variaitions of resources required by the PCs, or something else? I want to impart every idea in the best, most helpful way possible for you guys, so if you could elaborate a little, that would be great.
It helps us gauge the potential length of the adventure (how many long stat blocks are we going to need), and what type of monsters are going to be used (so that we can compare it to other proposals on our schedule). It also tells us something about the writer. That section helps us figure out how well the author knows how to use the rules, and whether he can write a balanced adventure.
Basically, its an excellent litmus test for the author's knowledge of game mechanics.
Firstly, I don't need an SDF form with a query, correct?
That is incorrect. A SDF must be submitted with each query.
Secondly, would it be bad form, if say my initial query was missing one of the submission elements noted in this thread, to re-edit the query letter and resend it? The same could be applied to sending it to your new email address (as you said for your own internal organization demands).
Please don't resend a query unless we ask you to rewrite it for us or we ask you to resend it because we did not get it. The new email address is purely for internal orgainization, we will still process your query normally if you sent it to the old one.
Instead of constantly reworking one idea, it would be better if you applied what you have learned to your next query.
Thirdly, is the turn around on general responses like "we've got it, looking at it now", still somewhere in the three month region?
Currently, our submission meetings are happening about every three months, so depending on when you submitted your proposal, you will hopefully get an answer back within three months, but we make no promises.
With our new system we are planning to start sending out "we've got it" emails within a week or two after we receive your proposal, but we are still working on getting that implemented.
Hey everybody-
Just a quick note on something I'm running into a lot with the latest batch of submissions. I know that two pages can seem limiting, but it's extremely important to get as much of the adventure itself into the query as possible. Don't get me wrong - I love backstory - but I keep finding myself getting really into the setup for an adventure, only to arrive at the last paragraph of the query and read "then the PCs show up and make it all better". Regardless of how cool your backstory is, an adventure is not a short story - when in doubt, condense or sacrfice background description in favor of telling us about PC involvement... it's how the thing PLAYS that determines whether or not an adventure is something we want to pick up.
Along those same lines- if you condense the backstory and find that the section talking about the adventure itself is still "then the PCs go take out the bad guy", take it as a sign that the adventure itself could probably use some work. Adventure consisting of a single "go there/do that" check box rarely get my vote... twists, turns, and alternate ways to 'win' are vastly more entertaining where I'm concerned.
Actually, since I'm already here, let's discuss another biggie- presuming PC actions. In a word: don't. The whole reason we like D&D is because it allows us as players to do anything we want... right? So in your adventure, don't presume that the PCs are always going to follow the path you've laid out perfectly (which is yet another reason why "alternate victory conditions" are so cool). While I'm sure everybody's heard that before, what it means in terms of your query is that proposals heavy on "the PCs will follow the invaders back to their lair" or "the PCs will of course want to use the library" run the risk of drawing a "too leading" or "too straightforward/linear" comment from the dudes with the colored pens. Go ahead and talk about incentives for PCs to take various actions, but realize that being lead by the nose is rarely fun or effective... at least in my experience.
One last thing - if you find that your adventure centers entirely around a really cool villain, with the only real plot point being "the PCs go fight the bad guy", consider shelving the adventure and submitting your antagonist as a Critical Threat instead - you'll run a far better chance of getting it published, and it'll be vastly more useful and entertaining for the readers.
Alright, back to the slush pile - thanks to everybody for taking these comments in the spirit in which they are intended (i.e. trying to help folks get published). Good luck!
-James Sutter
Editorial Intern, Dungeon
Firstly, let me just say thanks for the advice and the quick response to let me know you got my query.
Secondly, let me just say, "ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!"
To all who are working on queries, I would like to give a word of warning. MAKE SURE YOU EDIT IT!
I recommend that once you've got it to the point where you think, "Ok, I'll send it!" DON'T send it. Walk away, leave it for a week or two. Don't think about it. Don't look at it. Just leave it rest. Then pick it up and read it through again and edit all the mistakes you missed!
Let me just say again, "ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!"
I just re-read my query and noticed a glaring grammatical error within the first couple of paragraphs :( Plus a few others spread throughout the text. I swear I edited the heck out of that thing and even passed it to three other people to look at before submitting it. But I forgot to walk away and look at it fresh. When you've reread something three hundred times over in the past week, your brain tends to just gloss over the little things and connect the dots internally. It's not till you come back later and look it through that these things jump out at you.
Sigh.
Regardless of how cool your backstory is, an adventure is not a short story - when in doubt, condense or sacrfice background description in favor of telling us about PC involvement... it's how the thing PLAYS that determines whether or not an adventure is something we want to pick up.
...
D'oh!
Along those same lines- if you condense the backstory and find that the section talking about the adventure itself is still "then the PCs go take out the bad guy", take it as a sign that the adventure itself could probably use some work. Adventure consisting of a single "go there/do that" check box rarely get my vote... twists, turns, and alternate ways to 'win' are vastly more entertaining where I'm concerned.
Ok, it's not so bad. I've got twists and turns and alternate ways to win. Phew. Had me worried that I had too much backstory there for a moment!
Actually, since I'm already here, let's discuss another biggie- presuming PC actions. In a word: don't.
Check! :D
One last thing - if you find that your adventure centers entirely around a really cool villain, with the only real plot point being "the PCs go fight the bad guy", consider shelving the adventure and submitting your antagonist as a Critical Threat instead - you'll run a far better chance of getting it published, and it'll be vastly more useful and entertaining for the readers.
Check again!
Yay! I have multiple bad guys in mine. In fact, even the good guys could be the bad guys. Yay!
So... umm... this is kinda awkward... err... do you accept bribes? :D
To all who are working on queries, I would like to give a word of warning. MAKE SURE YOU EDIT IT!
I recommend that once you've got it to the point where you think, "Ok, I'll send it!" DON'T send it. Walk away, leave it for a week or two. Don't think about it. Don't look at it. Just leave it rest. Then pick it up and read it through again and edit all the mistakes you missed!
Delgath's on to something here, folks. While the general attitude in these parts seems to be that a few grammatical errors in a query don't kill a great idea, they also don't help it any. The query's our only chance to see what you've got in the way of writing chops, and if we find 5 glaring errors in two pages, we can only assume that a 20-page adventure will have 50. If there's anything I've learned about writing for newspapers and magazines, it's that clean copy (meaning error-free text) and meeting deadlines will score you major points every time. After all, editors are lazy... when the choice is between two equally amazing ideas, one messy and one virtually error-free, who d'ya think's going to win?
The query's a first date - make it look pretty. We'll discover each other's warts and neuroses soon enough if you get accepted.
-James Sutter,
Editorial Intern, Dungeon
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One quick question:
Assume I send you a querry (adventure not yet written, because I don't want to make the work if I get rejected), how long do I have time to send you the stuff? Will there be a time limit? Do you tell me I have to submit the adventure within two months, or how does it work?
Oh, and I am german. How Lenient(?right word?) are you concerning mistakes; grammar or words...?
Uh, I fear you make no differences between english speakers and foreign people, don't you!?
As an aside, I want to say thank you, James Sutter, for getting back to me so quickly. I sent in an adventure query yesterday, but most of it didn't survive the trip. James was kind enough to shoot me an email today about it, and I was able (hopefully) to get my submission through. If only every business was this helpful.
Of course, after resending it, I came here and read the helpful hints James posted earlier today, and I realized I should have removed most of the background info. Live and learn.
Hunter
Firstly, let me just say thanks for the advice and the quick response to let me know you got my query.
Secondly, let me just say, "ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!"
To all who are working on queries, I would like to give a word of warning. MAKE SURE YOU EDIT IT!
VERY good advice, Delgath!
I want to agree that this is a massive problem of mine (at least that's how I see it). I tend to be very long-winded, and then start cutting bak to make it fit two double-spaced pages. I play silly games, like using a synonym with two fewer letters, so the last little hanging line gets pushed up. Or I'll delete three sentences, then expand one into a compound sentence. Then I have to add something later, where I'll have to cut and paste somewhere else.
Finally, once I do all this work to get it to fit two pages exactly, I fail to read the whole thing more than a couple of times before I send it. It's only later, after a few days, where I look at them and see all the issues with the grammer and repeated wording and say. . .
"meep!"
Howdy folks-
We just finished with a submissions meeting, so a lot of you can expect to hear definite answers (either one way or another) within the next week or so. Be strong, my friends.
In response to Dryder - unfortunately, one of the perils of writing for a foreign market is that you tend to be judged against the native speakers. Neither Dungeon nor Dragon makes exceptions for language barriers, so be sure to proofread your query veeeeeeery carefully before you send it in. That said, however, keep working at it - you never know what might happen. Dragon editor Jason Bulmahn claims that he was reading German before he ever learned to read English.
The average time between proposal acceptance and manuscript submission is a couple of months - even the best queries generally have some changes that need to be made, and the editors understand that such things don't always happen overnight (though if they do, you'll earn serious rockstar points).
One more piece of advice for folks before I run off and play in Jason's Eberron game: I know that past incarnations of the submission guidelines encouraged folks to focus their query around lists of monsters and rewards. Please, please don't do that. Plot is where it's at, and there's no way to tell a good troll-infested dungeon from a bad troll-infested dungeon without a description of the game itself. I mean, really... would you want to pick your game based only on the monsters involved? That seems awfully "Diablo"-esque.
Alright, back to work. Later, everybody!
-James Sutter,
Editorial Intern, Dungeon
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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We just finished another submissions meeting, where the four of us (me, James, James, and Jeremy) went through about 30 of the best proposals from the last several months. Many of you should begin to hear back from us soon.
Based on my experience over the last three hours, I thought I might drop by James's excellent thread to offer some suggestions of my own.
1. Put your best face forward.
Consider what elements make your proposal exciting and a "must buy" from an editor's perspective (great story, great NPCs, great location, basically great anything) and put them up front. Let us know what makes your adventure cool, because if we have to go hunting for it, there's a good chance it's going to get missed. In newspapers they call this burying the lede. Don't bury your lede.
2. We are not your players.
A lot of authors like to be sneaky about key plot elements, avoiding a big "reveal." Even if the adventure is a mystery, it shouldn't be mysterious to us. Don't hide elements of your adventure from us. If I had a nickel for every proposal that ended "and then a great conspiracy is revealed!" without any clue as to the nature of that conspiracy anywhere else in the proposal, I'd have at least $.85 from this last meeting alone. Give us all the information we need to make an informed decision about whether or not to buy the module. If you don't, we're probably not going to buy it.
3. We still need Eberron and FR adventures.
This one speaks for itself.
4. We need low-level adventures.
This changes around a lot as months go by, but right now we're seriously hurting for good low-level proposals. A low-level proposal probably has a better shot than a mid-level or high-level proposal at the moment.
5. We're getting tired of straight dungeon crawls.
There will always be a place for "traditional" dungeon crawls in Dungeon (it is, after all, the name of the magazine), but we're beginning to yearn for more interesting adventures. Mix it up a little, please.
6. No more Borg adventures.
At least five proposals from the current meeting (and this is after scores have already been rejected) hinged on some sort of creature, usually something that looks like a bug, trying to spread out and assimilate innocent folks. Only the PCs stand in the way! It's getting a bit tired, and at this stage is a nearly inescapable path to the rejection pile. Please, please, please avoid this type of adventure for at least a year or two.
7. Let's see some urban adventures.
This ties into the request for more than just dungeon crawls, but we're really interested in some cool urban adventures that can be easily slotted into any urban D&D campaign. If these adventures involve social interaction and lots of great atmosphere, so much the better.
8. Learn how to use apostrophes.
Yes, we can fix them for you. We'd prefer not to, and a misuse of basic grammar and punctuation is an automatic strike against the proposal, because it means (almost no matter what) that developing the final adventure will involve more work (and hence more money) than developing a "clean" adventure. Bad apostrophe usage is a good indicator of bad grammar in general. This won't automatically sink a proposal, but it's not good. Here's a decent online primer on apostrophe usage: http://www.mantex.co.uk/samples/apo.htm
That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. Lots of really, really good proposals this time around, despite what may seem like negative feedback listed above. You guys are all very creative, and it is a thrill to read your proposals.
Keep at it.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
Howdy folks-
We just finished with a submissions meeting, so a lot of you can expect to hear definite answers (either one way or another) within the next week or so. Be strong, my friends.
NOOOOOOO! I just re-resent the query that I've been trying to send since Monday :(. It never seems to survive the evil gremlins in the computer system.
Mr. Sutter, Mr. Mona (or anybody else that was present), was this meeting for ALL outstanding submissions (of which I still have one)? Or was there a cutoff date, in which case I can look forward to my query (hopefully) being considered at the next submissions meeting?
Regarding my first thought, I have been unable to send .rtf files as email attachments without the whole file being pasted into the email body, which creates lots of unreadable garbage text. Would it be acceptable to send all the relevant files in one .zip file? I wanted to ask before trying it and being automatically rejected for whatever reason.
Hunter
Man - my heart just skipped a beat. The proposal meeting has occured!!
As always, thanks to the Dungeon staff for taking the time to help your contributors be as successful as they can. The effort and caring attitude is very appreciated.
On a side note - Is there any chance that you guys discussed pending Campaign Workbook articles in the meeting?
Mr. Sutter, Mr. Mona (or anybody else that was present), was this meeting for ALL outstanding submissions (of which I still have one)? Or was there a cutoff date, in which case I can look forward to my query (hopefully) being considered at the next submissions meeting?
There was a cutoff date. This meeting only concerned proposals we received between the last submission meeting cutoff date (which was around March 10) and June 10. Any submissions received after June 10 will have to wait till the next submissions meeting, which will almost certainly not happen until after GenCon.
And in case anyone is curious, out of the well over a hundred adventure proposals we received during that time, we green lit only a handful. But, that's the way it goes.
But, I don't mean to sound discouraging. Keep writing! It seems like every time we have a meeting like this we get a proposal from a new author that really impresses us.
On a side note - Is there any chance that you guys discussed pending Campaign Workbook articles in the meeting?
This meeting concerned adventure proposals only. Campaign Workbook submission (and adventure manuscript submissions for that matter) were not discussed.
On a positive note, however, I have been looking at the CW articles myself lately, so I should be able to send out responses about some of them along with the adventure proposal responses.
3. We still need Eberron and FR adventures.
This one speaks for itself.
Am I right in assuming FR is Forgotten Realms?
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Creative Director
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Am I right in assuming FR is Forgotten Realms?
3. We still need Eberron and FR adventures.
This one speaks for itself.
You are indeed! In fact... between Forgotten Realms and Eberron, we've seen (in the last batch of proposals, at least) FAR more Eberron proposals than FR proposals.
You are indeed! In fact... between Forgotten Realms and Eberron, we've seen (in the last batch of proposals, at least) FAR more Eberron proposals than FR proposals.
I have to suspect that Erik's mentioning the lack of Eberron adventures in the Black Hole thread had something to do with that imbalance.
I am hesitant to write FR adventures... I haven't picked up the books for 3rd edition, and while I avidly read and picked up materials for the setting in second edition, I haven't really kept up with it. With the Forgotten Realms, because it is very established, that makes writing in the setting very difficult.
Also, looking at published setting adventures, it is very easy to get the feeling that FR and Eberron adventures - given the 3 adventure arcs - are solicited to a greater degree from specific authors, which discourages me from writing them.
Of course I could be wrong. I could be falling victim to the feeling I have every time I look at the authors list for Dungeon.
Since we're talking tips here: You say not to assume any action on the part of the players, but to some degree we all, as adventure writers, rely on our hooks being good enough to get the characters to at least explore (whatever their motivation may end up being). If we can't even assume that we might as well all pack up. Every gamemaster has had the experience of a carefully planned adventure where the PCs decided to go the other way, so when you say don't assume, are you hinting that we should let more of how we intend to motivate players slip, or that you really want to see the setting and characters with whom we intend them to interact -- I'm trying to figure out what makes a good submission, and every time I think I have a handle on it I see a post here that knocks it down, or have a proposal I think was solid shot down.
I am still, in all fairness, relatively new to submitting proposals. I am far more comfortable with submitting a complete submission, as we do for Campaign Workbooks, as that lets my writing shine in a way a query letter does not. As a rule, when our ideas get shot down we don't know why, and that makes it very difficult for us, as writers, to determine what you are really looking for in a proposal. Reading the guidelines really gives you a feeling that you want the lists of monsters and treasure, but James (the Intern) indicates that this isn't really helpful.
Okay, I'm rambling. Hope to hear from you with some more hints.
Thanks!
- Ashavan
I learned everything I know about apostrophes from fast food marquees.
"Employee's Wanted. Apply Inside."
"Two Burger's for $2.00"
"Managers Special. All You Can Eat Rib's"
Now excuse me, I must go work on some proposal's.
Forgive me if I interrupt by saying the message boards here never cease to entertain! That's about it.
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Creative Director
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We're certainly open to accepting Eberron or Forgotten Realms adventures from readers. One of the main reasons you've not seen many reader-submitted FR or Eberron adventures is simply the fact that we haven't been receiving these types of submissions. We still want to print adventures in these worlds, so we went to the source for each and solicited them from people we know can do the job. But that's just because we don't know which of our as-yet-to-be-discovered Eberron or Forgotten Realms authors are yet. I know you're out there! But until you send in that submission, I can't publish your adventure! ;-)
As for monster lists... we certainly want to know what monsters you're putting in your adventure, if only so we can make sure we don't accept 50 half-dragon adventures in a row. But James Sutter's exactly right; a list of monsters is nothing more than a list. Anyone can make a list of monsters. We go through about 100 submissions a month (at the minimum), and nothing gets more boring faster than seeing a big list of monsters on the first page. Instead, take that first page to wow us, to catch our attention.
How you do that is part of the mystery and puzzle, I suppose. It's a different thing for everyone. Personally... I'd do a short, one-paragraph teaser for the adventure that hits the highlights and gives the editor an immediate idea of what your adventure is about. If you hook us at the start, we're much more likely to read through the whole thing. If you ramble about things not directly associated with the adventure (including deep back-story for the adventure, observations on how fun the adventure was to run for your group, or paragraphs telling us that "this is an adventure for Dungeons & Dragons that rewards druid players"), chances are that we won't make it to the end.
One possible method to start a proposal is to take a cue from the way we've been starting adventures in the magazine for a year or so now. The first paragraph of an adventure in Dungeon is supposed to work like the opening action sequence in a James Bond movie. It's a single short paragraph that tries to hook the reader into looking into the adventure by teasing him or her with the excitement and action that waits on the next several pages.
Some final notes about proposals (that may duplicate some of the things Erik, James Sutter, or Jeremy have already said):
1: Do your best to not go over two pages in your proposal. If you can't explain your adventure in two pages, it's probably too complex to fit into one of our adventure slots in the magazine.
2: Somewhere at the top of the proposal (in the header, preferably) list your name, the adventure's title, what level characters it's for, and how many words you estimate the completed manuscript will be.
3: Read recent issues of the magazine. Not only will this help in showing you what kind of adventures we tend to accept, but it'll also tell you what adventures we've run too often.
4: Don't keep secrets from the editor. If your proposal is a murder mystery, make sure you tell us who the murderer is and why he/she/it is a murderer. If there's a big revelation to be had at the end of the adventure, we need to know about it. In other words, your proposal should be filled with spoilers.
5: Spellcheck, grammarcheck, THEN paycheck. If a proposal's filled with spelling errors or bad grammar, there's no reason for us to believe that a manuscript by you will be any better. Get someone to proofread your proposal, or let it sit for a day and then re-read it before you send it out.
I learned everything I know about apostrophes from fast food marquees.
"Employee's Wanted. Apply Inside."
"Two Burger's for $2.00"
"Managers Special. All You Can Eat Rib's"
Now excuse me, I must go work on some proposal's.
There's a store in my local town that sells Ladie's Shoes...
1. Put your best face forward.
I think I did.
2. We are not your players.
I'm pretty sure I didn't.
3. We still need Eberron and FR adventures.
Bleh.
4. We need low-level adventures.
Well, I said it could be scaled down...
5. We're getting tired of straight dungeon crawls.
Definitely not mine.
6. No more Borg adventures.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!
But it was a GOOD Borg adventure...
7. Let's see some urban adventures.
Great, now the next submission meeting you have is gonna be flooded with low-level, urban adventures in Eberron. What hope do I have?
8. Learn how to use apostrophes.
Hey, there are numerous ways to use them! :(
Yeah I too am a bit wary of writing in already established "worlds". My own problem is keeping up to date with exactly what is happening where. I'm tragically behind on the FR storyline so my fear is that I write a big long dungeon based around some town that has already been destroyed or some such in the actual FR universe. Its a tight-rope as they say.
The "don't assume - it makes an ass out of U and Me" issue I tend to get around in other ways. I like my adventures to begin with "PLAYERS MUST ESCAPE THIS TRAP OR DIE" sort of like how the old 60's Batman would end. Of course how they escape and what they do after that is when the problems CAN occur, but I feel there should always be atleast one solid hook that gets the players into the quest initially beyond the "oh that looks like a pretty dungeon"-ness of some adventures I've read.
I just recieved a rejection today for a proposal sent in 6/12, the last of four sent in during this round...give or take. So, there is still hope for the other 3, as well as 1 sent in on the 30th. Anyone else get any bites? Medesha?
DMN - this thread has a few.
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Creative Director
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I don't have a problem with an author posting a proposal here that we've accepted for an issue that's already out, but one thing I think you'll notice quite quickly is that there isn't a magic formula on how all good proposals work. Remember that we Dungeon editors are (mostly) people too, and what annoys us on one day might delight us on the next. The best thing to do is to make sure your propsosals are clear, concise, and not full of grammatical errors and the like. And submit lots! One cool bit of advice I heard is that if you get a rejection, send in two new proposals ASAP.
I don't have a problem with an author posting a proposal here that we've accepted for an issue that's already out, but one thing I think you'll notice quite quickly is that there isn't a magic formula on how all good proposals work. Remember that we Dungeon editors are (mostly) people too, and what annoys us on one day might delight us on the next. The best thing to do is to make sure your propsosals are clear, concise, and not full of grammatical errors and the like. And submit lots! One cool bit of advice I heard is that if you get a rejection, send in two new proposals ASAP.
As prolific a writer as I can be, I'm not sure I can go that fast... 3 rejections would be six submissions!
On the other hand, what else did I have to do this weekend?
- Ashavan