So, after receiving #333 in the mail and flipping to the sorcerer Class Acts column, I saw these "knowstones." In essence, slotless magic items that allow a sorcerer to know an additional number of spells.
These are perfect, something akin to what I'm looking for. A mechanic that addresses, to some extent, a method for a sorcerer to learn additional spells without wasting numerous feats. However, I was concerned about "balance" and wanted to fish for opinions.
The "cost" of a knowstone is (spell level) squared * 1000gp. Does this seem fair for such an item? Theoretically, a sorcerer with cash to spare could purchase a handful of knowstones, stick them in his pocket, and within a day add five more spells known to his repertoire, for practically any level.
Granted, I like the idea. But the ultimate question must be asked. Is it balanced?
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I remembered discussing this earlier, but I don't think much came of the discussion.
I personally don't like them very much. I think the cost for low level spells is too cheap, and for high level spells it is too expensive.
I think it should be expensive, but not necessarily in terms of gold.
Personally, I think it would be a serious improvement if the prerequisite feat was "Craft: Knowstone" instead of "Craft: Wondrous Item". That would make it severely limited, and therefore acceptable. As it is written, any party with both a wizard and a sorcerer is going to have the sorcerer with a knowstone for every "contingency" spell. People won't bother with scrolls anymore.
Director of Games
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I remembered discussing this earlier, but I don't think much came of the discussion.
I personally don't like them very much. I think the cost for low level spells is too cheap, and for high level spells it is too expensive.
I think it should be expensive, but not necessarily in terms of gold.
Personally, I think it would be a serious improvement if the prerequisite feat was "Craft: Knowstone" instead of "Craft: Wondrous Item". That would make it severely limited, and therefore acceptable. As it is written, any party with both a wizard and a sorcerer is going to have the sorcerer with a knowstone for every "contingency" spell. People won't bother with scrolls anymore.
We tusseled with these quite a bit in the office and with wizards about the pricing and use of these items. If you are a little concerned about their balance, here are a few methods you could use to restrict them a bit more.
- The item takes up the necklace slot, meaning that you can only have one at a give time.
- Crafting the item requires the feat "Craft Knowstone", requiring the expenditure of a feat to create them.
- You can only use a specific number of knowstones at any one given time (equal to your Cha bonus, or some other mechanic).
Hope that helps
Jason Bulmahn
Associate Editor of Dragon
So, after receiving #333 in the mail and flipping to the sorcerer Class Acts column, I saw these "knowstones." In essence, slotless magic items that allow a sorcerer to know an additional number of spells.
These are perfect, something akin to what I'm looking for. A mechanic that addresses, to some extent, a method for a sorcerer to learn additional spells without wasting numerous feats. However, I was concerned about "balance" and wanted to fish for opinions.
The "cost" of a knowstone is (spell level) squared * 1000gp. Does this seem fair for such an item? Theoretically, a sorcerer with cash to spare could purchase a handful of knowstones, stick them in his pocket, and within a day add five more spells known to his repertoire, for practically any level.
Granted, I like the idea. But the ultimate question must be asked. Is it balanced?
We're intending them to be a "held" or some sort of jewellery slot use item. Basically, if it's not in your hand, or worn around your neck/finger/wrist/etc - you don't have access to the spell thereof.
Our gaming group loved it. We figured that knowstones were the precursor to the notion of spellbooks - <I>way</I> back, there were sorcerers. Sorcerers started making knowstones to spread their magic to other sorcerers. Smart folk started to see the patterns in the knowstones, and tried to copy them. After much experimentation, they found they could "know" a spell from a knowstone, but only until they released it... (ie: preparing it). More portable formats than rocks were created from there, eventually leading to spellbooks...
That is actually how I have envisoned the relationship between sorcerers and wizards in my campaigns, as well.
I really love the knowstone idea, and after participating in a couple discussions over at the WotC boards, I am pretty convinced that the pricing is appropriate. (Especially when taking into account the 1 item less than 25%, 3 items each less than 10% character wealth guideline)
I also like the idea of finding knowstones as unintended treasure. "Looking through the displacer beast's horde, you discover a small stone that had been kicked to the side. Holding it in your hand, you feel the familiar pulse of magic held within . . ." I like that image. Plus, for a magic-infused world, this type of item can be hidden anywhere without needing extensive justification.
We are going to use knowstones in our age of worms campaign, and I have a quick question about them. The cost of the knowstone includes expensive material components / foci. But this doen not serve to cover the cost for each casting of the spell does it. That is, we will need another set of the material components each time we cast the spell as well as during the making?
If that is true then why include the expensive components during the making of the stone?
If that is true then why include the expensive components during the making of the stone?
my guess would be so that the cost to create matches up with other items, all of which u8se a similar convention.
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If that is true then why include the expensive components during the making of the stone?
Magical item creation always has a high cost, but there isn't much to explain it away. Why does enchanting a sword to +1 cost so much gold?
The reason from a mechanics point of view is to keep a wizard from making a nearly unlimited number of them... Magic items are supposed to be special.
But, when you enchant a sword you already have the item to be enchanted. So where does the cost come from?
They almost always assume that it is expensive unguents, incense, and components. Mechanically they don't matter, they just pad the cost.
I'm guessing that if you go into a wizard's laboratory and ask "What's that bubbling over there?" the wizard will say "I don't know, but it is expensive, and I'm supposed to make it bubble while I enchant these boots of elvenkind or it won't work".
In any case, since the cost is for "components" if you feel creative you can actually assign components. Dragon featured power components a while back (items that enhanced an aspect of a spell) but it would also make a pretty good list for things the PCs could find.
So, if you need the item to cost 2,000 gp in "expensive components" you could require a hipogriff tail feather and an ounce of gorgon blood. Sure, they can just buy it if they have the 2,000 gp, but they could also go hunting for it if you think that would be more interesting. It does run the risk of allowing the PCs to create items for "free", but if your players are pretty good you don't need to worry too much about abuse.
I think what JwT meant was that you have to pay an added cost for any "expensive material or focus components" that the spell has when you create a knowstone. I don't have the magazine with me to check if that's true, but I agree with JwT that it shouldn't be. For example, if you make a knowstone of Stoneskin, which has a material component that costs 250gp per casting, the knowstone should still just cost (level squared) x 1000, and then whenever you use the knowstone to cast the spell, you have to supply the material component as usual.
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I have not read the article yet, but my idea would be to include a -1 penalty on Charisma while using a knowstone (this penalty is for each knowstone), and an attunement time (I'd pick at least 8 hours or even 24). That way you can amass a "library" of knowstones, but it will take time to make a certain spell available to you and during that time you are a bit hindered in casting your spells, because your primary attribute is diverted to the stone.
Otherwise... I really love the idea (gotta read the article, when I get home).
I think what JwT meant was that you have to pay an added cost for any "expensive material or focus components" that the spell has when you create a knowstone. I don't have the magazine with me to check if that's true, but I agree with JwT that it shouldn't be. For example, if you make a knowstone of Stoneskin, which has a material component that costs 250gp per casting, the knowstone should still just cost (level squared) x 1000, and then whenever you use the knowstone to cast the spell, you have to supply the material component as usual.
Huh? What I understand of them is that they provide you with an _additional spell known_, nothing more. Material components, costly or otherwise, do not factor in. You use a sorcerer spell slot to cast the knowstone's spell, and if that spell requires any kind of material component then you have to provide it, as with _any other spell you cast_.
I like knowstones a lot, and find their price to my liking.
I created equivalent items a long time ago, even pricing them the same. However, what I did was to make them rings and require an attunement time of 1 day before you could use the spell. This not only limits the number of extra spells a character gets but the attunement means you can't just carry around a panoply of dozens of extra-spell items to be immediately useful in any given situation.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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So, if you need the item to cost 2,000 gp in "expensive components" you could require a hipogriff tail feather and an ounce of gorgon blood. Sure, they can just buy it if they have the 2,000 gp, but they could also go hunting for it if you think that would be more interesting. It does run the risk of allowing the PCs to create items for "free", but if your players are pretty good you don't need to worry too much about abuse.
As long as a DM deducts the value of the hipogriff tail feather or gorgons blood from the treasure found in the adventure it's hardly a magic item for free.