I can't find the original post, but someone earlier had pointed out the impossibility of Land reaching room 23 if the red lantern had been stolen and lost to room 19 30 years before he got there. Erik hinted that he'd had a clever solution to the problem, but couldn't think of it at the time of his posting.
So, did you think of it yet?
At the time, the solution was to change the timeline to have Land explore the cairn before the Seekers did. Barring Erik's clever solution, I'd like to offer an alternate idea.
I found it a little distressing that a 13-year-old would get that far into a deadly cairn (not to mention a little insulting to the PCs once they learn of it), so I'm thinking I could have Land killed by the Face trap in area 8. In fact, those are Alastor's bones at the bottom of the ledge in room 7. Because he died trying to get through the face trap, he chose not to pass into the afterlife, instead taking his spirit into room 23 to see what he'd died for. Having given up an afterlife, only a proper burial with his family will give him another chance.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
Sounds like a good solution to me
I thought of a solution. The text says that every year magic refreshes and resets everything, missing lamps are restored, etc. During this time, all the traps and doors are tested. Alastor, a very lucky young man, happened to enter during one of the yearly resets and managed to reach the face as the air spirits were testing to see if the door still opened properly.
Unfortunately for him, the spirits don't leave things deactivated long enough for anyone to actually make it to the tomb, so the door sealed behind him and he was trapped in the room with the iron ball trap as it came back "online." This sealed his fate and the lad was killed.
I thought of a solution. The text says that every year magic refreshes and resets everything, missing lamps are restored, etc. During this time, all the traps and doors are tested. Alastor, a very lucky young man, happened to enter during one of the yearly resets and managed to reach the face as the air spirits were testing to see if the door still opened properly.
Unfortunately for him, the spirits don't leave things deactivated long enough for anyone to actually make it to the tomb, so the door sealed behind him and he was trapped in the room with the iron ball trap as it came back "online." This sealed his fate and the lad was killed.
Here's the original link: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/dungeon/ageOfWorms/dMQuestionsAboutThe WhisperingCairn
My solution was to have the mouth open just enough where a small, skinny, 13 year old could squeeze through (something like at least a DC 25 Escape Artist check), but your solution works just as well.
The only real "problem" with both solutions is that this allows for PCs to get in without the lanterns as well (albeit only certain sized characters or within a limited timeframe). However, chances are that most PCs will never recognize the problem, as IIRC, the only way given in the adventure to find out when Ulavant's band was there is to check the records of the Seeker Lodge in the Free City.
Alternate Solution:
It seems impossible for a child to reach the sphere trap room alive, and even moreso since an essential lamp was lost 30 years prior. The adventurers ask the boy and he seems puzzled by the mention of a sarcophagus and a giant mouth. "Traps? Lamps? What you talking about mister? I went in the rabbit hole and crawled through a long tunnel of dirt." You see, Alaster did not pass through the mouth. He entered the Cairn through the back way, arriving via the grick tunnel at the bottom of the room.
...tunneled here through some subterranean fissure opened during an ancient earthquake...
The only problem I can think with this solution is that it allows the PCs to avoid the grell encounter as they don't HAVE to go into the ball play box.
Here's the original link: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/dungeon/ageOfWorms/dMQuestionsAboutThe WhisperingCairnMy solution was to have the mouth open just enough where a small, skinny, 13 year old could squeeze through (something like at least a DC 25 Escape Artist check), but your solution works just as well.
The only real "problem" with both solutions is that this allows for PCs to get in without the lanterns as well (albeit only certain sized characters or within a limited timeframe). However, chances are that most PCs will never recognize the problem, as IIRC, the only way given in the adventure to find out when Ulavant's band was there is to check the records of the Seeker Lodge in the Free City.
I agree that the PCs are unlikely to notice the problem. But my PCs take good notes and cross-reference everything. They will notice the problem.
As for the PCs being able to get inside the same way, if the door is only open for one round per year then the odds are less than one in five million they will time it right. Alastor is one lucky kid in that respect.
The only problem I can think with this solution is that it allows the PCs to avoid the grell encounter as they don't HAVE to go into the ball play box.
I disagree. If the kid is killed while being pelted by balls, he would probably fall off the narrow bridge.
You see, Alaster did not pass through the mouth. He entered the Cairn through the back way, arriving via the grick tunnel at the bottom of the room.
Ah, but the grick tunnel is a subterranean fissure that leads to the underdark where gricks live. It wouldn't lead to the surface, where gricks don't live.
Stubbornly sticking to my solution,
Busker
The underground fissure cracked upwards as far as cairn room 23 (which is relatively close to the surface already!), and during the same tremor another fork of the fissure split off a hundred yards to the east, where it rent the earth a few dozen feet further upwards, connecting to a rabbit-hole, which leads to the surface. Another grick has been spotted at night near a halfling sheep-herder's property. This halfling herdsman owns the ranch just over the hill from Anders Land's old vacant property. Beat that! :)
Here's another idea: The architect utilized a number of workers who had to live inside the tomb they were building. To make their lives pleasant, he allowed a few of their family members to come as well, and for obvious safety reasons, the architect built in a magical failsafe, where any child under the age of 13 would not trigger any of his diabolical traps.
Alastor Land fled his farmstead on his 13th birthday, after an argument with his mother and sisters. As an official adult, he was to take on the "head of household" role, and he rebelled against all of that responsibility. Hearing of his friends daring each other to enter the Whispering Cairn, he figured he could hide out there until he figured out what else he can do.
The irony is, he was born at 7pm, so when he arrived at the entrance of the cairn, he was still a boy. He found his way through the cairn, the lanterns now unnecessaary, and made his way deeper inside. Once he was at the threshold of finding the true tomb, with its treasures and informative murals, the 7th bell struck and he became an adult. THe traps killed him, and left him in an intermediary state between a child and an adult.
He cannot escape his fate, and is now forced to live eternity at the site of his childish defiance. Bringing about the proper burial of his family, and insuring their peaceful rest, is the act of an adult, which would free him from his evil curse and allow his spirit to enter the Outer Planes.
Or something like that. Odds are, no PCs would be young enough, or even realize that using a child would work to get them through the cairn. However, if they do figure it out, using this alternative (and somewhat unscrupulous) route could add alot of role-playing opportunities. . .
Wereplatypus, (by day a duck, by light of full moon a beaverduck?)
Your solution has pathos and doesn't sound retrowritten.
It's my favorite thus far.
However, since there is a culture of explorative youth about these cairns I get the feeling that if the under 13 trap rule you've suggested were true, Alastor would have walked down to that last room only to find fifteen other peasant kids juggling the iron balls and riding around on Grell back during a some kind of coed Snapple party (non-alcoholic mead flavor).
Was there a medieval equivalent to the modern slip and slide?
What kept all those other kids, before the wolves came to den, from getting as far as he did? The place would be a chalk graffitti fest:
Plinth and Mertia
2gether 4ever
Diamond Lake sucks Owlbear eggs
Erik Mona wears falsies
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Interesting point.
Okay, let’s think of something else. . .
During the Age of Worms, the threads of fate will become intertwined in a number of ways. Consider the strange coincidence of a party of adventurers who just so happen to stumbe on a plot involving the Ebon Triad in Diamond Lake, who are using Kyuss worms in some capacity to cause the Age of Worms.
Consider also that the only reason the PCs learn of this is because they unknowingly decided to explore the Cairn of a Wind Duke warrior. The Wind Dukes fought a horrible war against the forces of Chaos at Pesh, as the PCs will learn from this history. It’s also a coincidence that this very history and lost power will become VERY important to thwarting the great evil to be unleashed, via the evil in Diamond Lake.
Are these truly coincidences, or is there some linking thread here? Some greater power at work? Perhaps the Land family is more than what they seem, since these coincidences are connected through Alastor Land? Without his presence, there's no second adventure. . .
As in the idea regarding the children, consider instead that the architect designed the tomb’s defenses to ignore anyone with the bloodline of the Wind Dukes themselves. The Land family, in their petty farmhouse, represents a diluted line streching back to ancient times. Alastor, being the last surviving male, represents the last shred of this bloodline, thus he serves at the fulcrum of the powers of Law.
When he came of Age, didn't Alastor have an inexplicable desire to run away and visit the tomb? I say his blood was drawn to it, setting himself on a collision course with the primal Law that governs the universe. And like the ever-spinning wheels of Mechanus, the primal Laws of Fate caused the poor boy to die at teh opportune moment, and his spirit remain to wait for the moment when acatalyst force comes to signal his final death, and the dawn of a new age.
If you think about the series of events that will occur after the PCs meet Alastor Land, maybe the wholoe things represents a vast mousetrap by the Force of Law itself, designed to so the following:
1. A cairn of the Wind Dukes is revealed, as well as the associated artifacts and history, to be used and studied by the PCs.
2. The hiding place of the forces of evil (and ultimately Chaos and worms) are exposed for a confrontation.
3. The Final bloodline of the Wind Dukes is evaporated, as Alastor’s bones are laid to rest – signaling the end of one Age and the beginning of another
4. The catalyst force of this new Age of Worms are revealed - and they are the adventuring PCs! Their actions and decisions will determine the fates of all. . .
Alastor Land a coincidence? I think not.
- Chris
Remind me to look into paying you a consultant fee when I pen my next adventure. Gadzooks, man.
Your latest solution goes deep. Not only philosophically aligned with the gravity of a coming age of despair but complimentary in regards to introducing the powers of law with their own agenda. You took Alistor, a plot device to open a door, and transformed him into a major herald of what's to come.
I'd seriously consider adding all your elements to the storyline before running a party through. They add a portentous lyricism.
The wind dukes were a race of elemental lords that predated mankind but I suppose that the Land family might bear a hint of their bloodline (as the bloodline option in Unearthed Arcana). Even the surname Land ties them to this place.
Alistor Land's legacy will be, in his own small way, to help restore the land (almost rhymes) by assisting the PCs on their way.
It's too bad Alistor disappears after this first adventure. I would have enjoyed some Resident Evil Red Queen type exposition as the storyline progressed; if he materialized on occasion and acted the part of vague advice spewing cipher, possessing no emotion but possessed by a merciless scion of law.
At worst such a device would smack of deus ex machina but properly managed we'd get to see an early NPC develop alongside the party in unpredictable and perhaps morbid ways. That's always a bit of fun.
My fix is this: give the boy 2 ranks of Use Magic Device. Explain it away as a boyhood obsession with a wizard or fairy or something (which is why he ran away to a dangerous trapped cairn in the first place.)
The door opens by a set of magic conditions, so its a magic device by the definition that DnD uses. Assuming he got a natural 20 on a Activate Blindly check, his Charisma is high enough that he can hit the DC of 25 and open the door without the red lantern
All reasonable solutions, but I'm uncomfortable including anything the PCs can never discover.
It's like playing WEG's 'Paranoia'. The game is riotously funny, but only to the gamemaster who's able to read the jokes. If only the DM is privvy to the way Land got into the cairn, then it's the same to the players as having no solution at all.
All reasonable solutions, but I'm uncomfortable including anything the PCs can never discover.
It's like playing WEG's 'Paranoia'. The game is riotously funny, but only to the gamemaster who's able to read the jokes. If only the DM is privvy to the way Land got into the cairn, then it's the same to the players as having no solution at all.
Certainly. Many of these changes would beg a DM to retrowrite, and to allow the PCs a good few chances to learn all there is to learn.
Land's ghost, for instance, could be a wealth of information. Maybe he's even learned something about history from having one foot in the land of the dead. Eh... or something good in place of that. Whichever.
I've always loathed reading an adventure only to realize that most of the secrets to be discovered within were almost probability-doomed to be mine and mine alone.
Dancin' with myself... oh oh...
At which, Allustan leapt to his feet and said "Land! of course, it all fits."
He goes to a shelf and flips through a volume of local history then reads aloud:
"When the last of the lands is laid to rest in the soil that held Icosiol, first of the line, the eye that is severed shall open, the hand that is severed shall grasp the hearts of all. The savage and the tyrant will peer from the same brow and the aspect will let loose the age of worms"
"This is the document that drove our old high priest of heironeos to scour the hills looking for answers. He disappeared, you know. "
|
Interesting point.
Okay, let’s think of something else. . .
During the Age of Worms, the threads of fate will become intertwined in a number of ways. Consider the strange coincidence of a party of adventurers who just so happen to stumbe on a plot involving the Ebon Triad in Diamond Lake,.....
If you think about the series of events that will occur after the PCs meet Alastor Land, maybe the...
I have been chewing on this for months, I have to say it's quite briilliant. It led me to elaborate further upon the idea for my campaign and I wanted to share what Mr. Wissel inspired. As the party finds Allustan he explains why he was in the tomb to begin with, all of Mr. Wissels entry, followed by my own addition. I hope it does Mr. Wissels original post justice.
Allustan...
"To further complex thought I had begun to wonder what my role could be in this, obviously myself not being outside the mechinations of the wheels of law. Had I not been in Diamond Lake there would undoubtedly not have been a learned individual in the town who could have not only assisted you in uncovering the beginning path of the Age of Worms but also further explored the unsolved mysteries of the Wind Dukes. It seems in my studies I erroniously uncovered the final resting place of a long lost artifact in the original battle of Pesh, a fragment of the fabled Rod of Law. I am convinced that the fragment lies hidden within the final resting place of the Vaatti general Icoisol, the true tomb. What I failed to take into consideration was the strong need of chaos to strike the balance with law in this matter. It seems the fragments of the rod are being sought out by demonic agents of Kyuss, they indeed already posses at least one of the seven fragments. In my haste and exctitement at realizing this I intended to return to my home, recover some componenets and several tomes I beleive relate to this situation."
IMO this helps to tie up a lot of the "why are we here and what does this have to do with the Age of Worms?" It may also prevent a party from finding Allustan and promptly leaving the tomb to go see Manzorian or find Ilthane's treasure trove. I was thinking I would also have the occulus demon be less about an imprisoned gaurdian as a trapped demon who was seeking out the fragment of the rod and can't get out, if it kills the party it may be freed.