Is there a typo in the stat block for the juggernaut on p.101? The attack bonus of +8 should be +48?
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is there a typo in the stat block for the juggernaut on p.101? The attack bonus of +8 should be +48?
Yay! A nice big goofy typo!
Yes... the juggernaut's attack is wrong. It should be:
BAB +33 plus STR +15 minus Size –4 =
Bite +44 melee (2d8+22/18–20/x3)
Is there a typo in the stat block for the juggernaut on p.101? The attack bonus of +8 should be +48?Yay! A nice big goofy typo!
Yes... the juggernaut's attack is wrong. It should be:
BAB +33 plus STR +15 minus Size –4 =
Bite +44 melee (2d8+22/18–20/x3)
\
Will(can) there be an errata section added to the issue 124 download?
ASEO out
|
Creative Director
|
Probably not. If we print one line of errata in a web enhancement, why stop there? Why not print all the errata we can find? The answer's simple. We don't have the time to print errata for every issue. If we were to start printing errata for the magazines in those things, one of the Dungeon editors would implode.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
|
Yep that's why a seasoned DM knows how to calculate attack bonuses when he sees something wonky. I frequently have to double check the stats in Dungeon (especially amongst the minions).
For example in Secrets of the Soul Pillars, the 1/2 orc Fighter 8's in the Temple to Wee Jas can't have both the Improved Critical and Greater Weapon Focus Feats (both require either BAB +8 or being a Ftr 8... unfortunately you only get one feat to choose from at 8th level). These goofs spring up here and there, now and again. You just gotta know how to fix em (or ignore them).
--I am a Vrock, I'm a Tanar'ri!
Don't get me wrong here, the Maure Castle adventures contain interesting encounters and I will glean some good stuff from Chamber of Antiquities but...I don't see the motivation behind publishing an adventure that is nothing but a subsection of a larger dungeon. Not only is it just a dungeon but it is a dungeon within a dungeon. The first hook suggests the adventure should be run as part of a Maure Castle campaign. Maure Castle campaign? Pass. There are some alternate hooks given but it doesn't change the fact that it's just another go to dungeon X and get this item or where are these monsters coming from plot. It is designed as an add on dungeon and I wonder if it would have had a chance for publication had the author not been Robert Kuntz. I must repeat though that the encounters are entertaining and I'm lovin the hordlings and juggernaut.
Loved the current of issue of Dungeon. However, with all the fanfare of Age of Worms (looks good so far) I noticed one thing that might have been over looked. In Chambers of Antiquities some of the guardians are identified as DragonMasters of Lynn. What little I found there was intriguing. Can we look forward to an expansion of these warriors and lands far from Greyhawk?
I'll preface this by saying I'm not done reading the adventure yet - so this could very well change.
I've been rather underwhelmed by the adventure so far. A few things play into that:
-- Other than seeing it mentioned on the boards from time to time, I have no clue what Maure castle is. The history given at the beginning of this adventure makes me go, "Yeah - what's so spectacular about this castle?"
-- The "plot hooks" to get PCs into the adventure (assuming you don't know about the original) were rather uninspiring. "Here's some money - go to dangerous place X and retrieve magic item Y for me!"
-- As a DM and a player, I loathe things such as the pool that turns you ethereal. I don't think there's anything worse in the game than, "5% of the time - no matter how powerful you are - we're going to totally screw your character to the point that even true ressurection won't help him! BWAHAHAHA!" I thought the pool was kinda cool and interesting right up until I read the consequences of rolling a natural 1.
As I said, I'm still reading - so maybe something later in the adventure will change my mind. It wouldn't be the first time, in this magazine even. I was unimpressed by the start of the Age of Worms, but by the middle of the adventure I was sold that it was pretty cool.
-- As a DM and a player, I loathe things such as the pool that turns you ethereal. I don't think there's anything worse in the game than, "5% of the time - no matter how powerful you are - we're going to totally screw your character to the point that even true ressurection won't help him! BWAHAHAHA!" I thought the pool was kinda cool and interesting right up until I read the consequences of rolling a natural 1.
Life is unfair and so to sometimes is the dungeon.
GGG
"Life is unfair and so to sometimes is the dungeon."
Yup! This is an element of classic D&D that Mr. Kuntz understands well and I for one am glad. I see to many players "these days" thinking that the numbers on their characetr sheets are some guarantee of safety. Bah! A good dungeon adventure has the same Golden Rule as a good horror movieL: "Anyone can die at any time." :)
So I take it you missed the full Maure Castle adventure last year, which took up virtually an entire Dungeon issue and dealt heavily with the background of the place?-- Other than seeing it mentioned on the boards from time to time, I have no clue what Maure castle is. .... I don't think there's anything worse in the game than, "5% of the time - no matter how powerful you are - we're going to totally screw your character ...
Completely correct. I first subscribed to Dungeon at GenCon last year. I shouldn't need to purchase a back issue, though, to enjoy an adventure in a current issue. The Shackled City Adventure path is a perfect example. Each installment I received after I started my subscription worked just fine on their own; while there was certainly some information I was lacking, each one provided enough of a summary - or plot hooks - to make it useful.
Regarding the Pool (and other nasty traps) — tough cookies; you should know what you're getting into here. Kuntz is an old-school D&Der and it shows.
Yep - he's certainly "old school," which to me means "DM fiat" about whether you live or die (or worse). The adventure was full of DM fiat, too. Being deadly and dangerous is fine; hand waving to make it that way is (in my opinion) not fine. This adventure had a ton of hand waving. "Oh, if the PCs go here they die. And even the mightiest of mighty life granting spells - true resurrection - won't help save their sorry asses. BWAHAHAHAHA!!!" No thanks.
The first dungeon had a room that forced everybody to save or destroy their own magic items. Arbitrary destruction of valuable property
Yay for screwing your players over! woohoo! Where do I sign up - I love pissed off players.
Yes, PCs dying is tough.
Yep, absolutely. As a DM, if it happens, though, I deal with it. Though I would never tell my players, "Oh, you walked into the pool? Sorry, you're dead. What's that, Mr. Cleric - you cast true resurrection on his corpse? Oops - you've just wasted 25,000 gp worth of diamonds since your spell fails. Gee, it sure sucks to be you right now doesn't it? Guess you better start making up a new character. Tough noogies." And if a DM pulled out crap like that, I'd walk out. Yet because Rob Kuntz is "old school" it's OK to whip out nonsense like this that happened regularly in previous editions - almost entirely so a DM could feel all superior over his players.
But keep in mind, some of the PCs here are going to be casting 9th level spells. Anything less than total annihilation is barely any threat at all — throw some diamonds on the ground (and maybe not even that, if you're really good at exploiting the rules), wait 10 minutes and you're back, good as new. Without the risk of REAL loss, it's hardly an adventure.
Well, first, the adventure is written for 16th level characters - so by default they don't have 9th level spells. But even if they do... even at that level, I don't consider 25K worth of diamonds to be a minor component for casting the spell. That's freakin' expensive, and makes an impact on the characters.
If you can't tell, yes - my original dislike of the adventure hasn't gone away. In my opinion, this is by far the worst adventure I've seen in the 9 issues of my subscription. That's OK - I don't have to like every adventure. If somebody likes this, that's OK too. If your players have fun, that's cool. I know my players would pitch a fit, though. And so would I.
-- Other than seeing it mentioned on the boards from time to time, I have no clue what Maure castle is. The history given at the beginning of this adventure makes me go, "Yeah - what's so spectacular about this castle?"
Maure Castle was a major part of the 1E TSR adventure "Mordenkainen's Fabulous Adventure." Last year it, the original creators (Gary Gygax and Rob Kuntz), updated it for 3E. This was considered such a major event that it was given an entire issue of Dungeon.
I think the Maure Castle issue has had the best reaction of anything created for Dungeon recently (and possibly ever). The Adventure Paths are in the ballpark, too.
*shrug* never read it/played it "back in the day." We used precious few modules back then - mostly due to a lack of money.
I've simply stated why I didn't like this one advenutre. Others liked it, some for the exact same reasons I disliked it. That's OK. It's OK that this particular adventure is - in my opinion - the worst one during my nine month subscription; just like it's OK if you think it's the coolest, bestest adventure during the same time period.
If an adventure like this begins to appear every month, the magazine loses value to me; if an adventure like this appears every once in a while, it just becomes a slightly less useful issue.
|
I am sure we all have our likes and dislikes. For me, Zherog, the Eberron stuff is worthless. I understand alot of people are now playing the setting, but it is just not for me and my group. Now, Maure Castle is a different story. We use it as a secondary game, when players for the main game cannot show up for one reason or another. I am "old school" have been gaming since 78 I think. I like the "dungeon crawl" aspect. My PC's went there, because it IS there. They were broke and bored. You should get the back issue, and read it...it really is a good adventure. I was kinda hoping for more than a level a year though..maybe every 6 months..I am starting the new adventure path in a few weeks, but will continue with Maure as our secondary game...Thanks Dungeon...
Very cool, adventure, excllent map, awesome monsters - especially the seven-headed juggernaut!
Overall, very cool! An excellent expansion to the original.
If I had to voice a complaint, it would be the lack of space for Miarial the hellcat to move around in (room 13). She has a 15 ft. space and is stuck in a 30-ft.-by-30-ft. room. I'd like more space when dealing with creatures with her size and reach, but that's just my personal thing.
Again, a great expansion from the first Maure Castle installment. Thanks, Dungeon! Can't wait for the next one.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
|
Zherog as a subscriber for the past 11 or so years I can tell you that Maure Castle and the Adventure Paths are some of the best material Dungeon has produced. The AP's remind me of the Mere of Dead Men series... which was AWESOME. I'm glad to see the concept revived.
Yes you and I have a different style of gaming (I won't even get into the +4 Bane/Epic DR issue:D). Sometimes there should be items or traps or even phenomena that the PC's cannot Save against or resist. Sometimes you gotta take the lumps and either retreat or prevail. That's Classic Dungeon crawl baby!
-I am a Vrock, I'm a Tanar'ri!
|
|
Kinda like the sphere of annihilation trap in Tomb of Horrors? Mmwwwaaahahahah....I got one for you, I just picked up the very first module I ever ran as a DM, in 82. Treasure Vaults of Lindoran..an old JG module...anyone remember this classic? In converting it, you find that if a party does not have a good Rogue, they are as good as meat.
There are plenty of things I like in CoA, to be honest. I like how the library has a built in defense against fire; I mostly like the juggernaut. I like the Mummy that guards the box; I like the box that feeds the hordlings into the material plane.
I can certainly get a lot of things from this adventure - though I'd never run it. I'll be more than happy to steal a room or three, though.
I found both Chambers of Antiquities and the earlier Maure Castle adventure in Dungeon entertaining and inspirational, but I think it would be great if Dungeon published an adventure or two set in less dangerous levels of Maure Castle to use with lower level adventurers in building up to these higher level ones.
Any Maure Castle installments are appreciated (and eagerly anticipated) -- thanks Dungeon!
Perhaps Mature Castle would be worthy of a stand-alone book sometime after all the installments have been published? Could we hope? It'd be extremely cool to have it all in one book after the smoke clears...
I felt that this adventure was top notch, as well as the previous Maure Castle adventure. One thing, though, was bothering me. There wasn't a lot of treasure involved. I'm not someone who piles treasure onto my players, but I thought that there should be some substantial rewards for braving all the very nasty stuff in the Chamber. While knowledge is perhaps the most valuable reward here, I think some players might be let down.
|
Creative Director
|
I felt that this adventure was top notch, as well as the previous Maure Castle adventure. One thing, though, was bothering me. There wasn't a lot of treasure involved. I'm not someone who piles treasure onto my players, but I thought that there should be some substantial rewards for braving all the very nasty stuff in the Chamber. While knowledge is perhaps the most valuable reward here, I think some players might be let down.
Actually, there's quite a bit of treasure in there. Not much gold, and not a lot of minor magic items, but there's a lot of really high-end expensive stuff in the Chambers of Antiquities. Including a couple of artifacts.
That said, two places that would make great locations to add in more treasure are inside of Zomph's Menagerie or in the vault in area 43.
There are plenty of things I like in CoA, to be honest. I like how the library has a built in defense against fire; I mostly like the juggernaut. I like the Mummy that guards the box; I like the box that feeds the hordlings into the material plane.
I can certainly get a lot of things from this adventure - though I'd never run it. I'll be more than happy to steal a room or three, though.
Another option is to simply tone down the things you think are way over teh top. I'm old school myself - but I never thought the Tomb of Horrors was a particularly well designed dungeon for adventuring in - not enough wonder and amazment and too much arbitrary death. But I can't see why simply scaling back the stuff you don't like won't make it all better.
Erik and I talked about this and we are now shooting for two installments per year, perhaps more (doubling up in an issue) if the levels are smaller, in which case 3-4 small ones per year instead of 2 per.I am currentlt detailing the "Greater Halls" and one proceeding that will be "The Family Crypts."
Thanks for all the positive reactions! It's truly heartening to say the least! :)
"Uncle" (Rob Kuntz)
Might be an idea to come up with a mechanism that allows a Dungeon to 'grow' as time goes on. One of the problems here is that DMs either have to wait until you die of old age to be sure they have the last instalment (and these days even dead authors still seem to put out new material) or run the adventure but loose out on any new cool material that might be added.
P.S. Where do I go to check out Castle Zagyg?
|
Creative Director
|
As a DM and a player, I loathe things such as the pool that turns you ethereal. I don't think there's anything worse in the game than, "5% of the time - no matter how powerful you are - we're going to totally screw your character to the point that even true ressurection won't help him! BWAHAHAHA!" I thought the pool was kinda cool and interesting right up until I read the consequences of rolling a natural 1.
I have to take the blame for the pool trick. The original intention was that you could use the pool for a short time, but if you stayed in it too long (more than 20 hours or so) there was a chance of something bad happening. It's a simple enough fix to say that you don't have to start making those Will saves until 20 hours have passed.
That said, the adventure is for really high-level characters. Miracle and wish are certainly not beyond their means, even at 16th level. High level adventures are tough to do... you don't want to make things too deadly, but at the same point you can assume that no mater what you do, a 16th+ level party will have some way to deal with even the worst case scenario.
As a DM and a player, I loathe things such as the pool that turns you ethereal. I don't think there's anything worse in the game than, "5% of the time - no matter how powerful you are - we're going to totally screw your character to the point that even true ressurection won't help him! BWAHAHAHA!" I thought the pool was kinda cool and interesting right up until I read the consequences of rolling a natural 1.I have to take the blame for the pool trick. The original intention was that you could use the pool for a short time, but if you stayed in it too long (more than 20 hours or so) there was a chance of something bad happening. It's a simple enough fix to say that you don't have to start making those Will saves until 20 hours have passed.
OK - I'll blame you. :P
That said, the adventure is for really high-level characters. Miracle and wish are certainly not beyond their means, even at 16th level. High level adventures are tough to do... you don't want to make things too deadly, but at the same point you can assume that no mater what you do, a 16th+ level party will have some way to deal with even the worst case scenario.
Indeed - one of the hardest things about high level adventures is making them work for a majority of groups. What challenges one of my groups is a cakewalk for the other; what challenges the second group would result in a TPK for the first.
Here's a question, Rob: Is Lynn a friend of yours? When I saw it in the mag, I immediately was put in mind of the great Greyhawk tradition of placenames based on players and their friends like Perrenland, Geoff, etc.
I've noticed something else about the Seven-Headed Juggernaut, besides the typo regarding its attack modifier for its bite. I thought the base saves for constructs are all poor, thus equal to one-third the construct's HD, plus relevant stat modifier? Shouldn't the Juggernaut's saves be Fort +15 (base, no modifier from Constitution since it has none so bonuses or penalties to it), Ref +17 (base plus +2 from Dexterity), and Will +15 (base plus +0 from Wisdom)?
Perhaps I missed out on something that drastically reduced the Juggernaut's saves to Fort +9, Ref +9, and Will +4. Also, does the Juggernaut have a +34 natural armour bonus or +36, which would make sense since it has a -4 penalty due to size and a +2 bonus from Dexterity and that makes AC 34?
Just thought I ask because I always like to know how things were done and how conclusions were reached. It is just the geek in me, ;)
This is great adventure to read through and I will hopefully have a chance to run it soon as my players are getting closer to the lower levels of Catle Maure finally. I did notice one logical inconsistency with the the structure of the dungeon while reading through it. This question will include some potential spoilers, so read further with caution.
As I understand it, the Hordlings escape from Arodnap's box at random intervals, presumably appearing in the same room where the box is found. They can easily get from that room into Arodnap's Crypt as the Wall of Force has long ago been dispelled. How do they then get past the door sealing the Crypt into the rest of the dungeon? That door can only normally be opened by a Baton. None of the Hordling abilties would allow then to teleport or phase past the door, or dispel the magic on the portal. Neither do they posess the skills or intellect to Disarm the door like a rogue. They have in most cases the brute power to batter the door down eventually, but the entrance is described as being intact.
I can imagine a few potential solutions to this problem, or I could just ignore it and chalk it up to the wierdness of Castle Maure. I'm just wondering if I'm actually missing something or did no one think that this would be an issue. I'd love to hear from anyone on this matter.
With much love and respect
Patrick
|
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This one I can answer. Remember that hordlings are pretty varied in their abilities. Many of them are tough enough to wrench open the door if they make enough strength checks. Of course, they'd have to do so while Arodnap was busy schooling any other hordlings in the room, after which she'd close the door up and go back to her sarcophagus. Over hundreds of years, a small number of hordlings have certainly made it out of the room and avoided Arodnap and the seven-headed juggernaut (some may even have been released by other troublemaking adventurers) to lurk elsewhere in the Chambers or even eventually making their way up outside to cause trouble above.