Are Dungeon readers more numerous or just more vocal?

[No time to play]

There are more than double the posts on the Dungeon general board than on the Dragon general board. I thought Dragon was the more popular magazine. (I prefer Dungeon myself...)

Which one has the higher circulation?

[ASEO]

If you look at the difference in number of posts, you'll probably discover that it is solely the volume of my posts that put DUNGEON so far ahead ;-)

Hey, I love DMing and DUNGEON is the busy DMs best friend.

99% of DUNGEON rocks!

ASEO out

[Asberdies Lives]

ASEO wrote:

99% of DUNGEON rocks!

I hope they keep Wil Save just so I can keep reading the shots you take at it.

[ASEO]

Asberdies Lives wrote:

ASEO wrote:

99% of DUNGEON rocks!

I hope they keep Wil Save just so I can keep reading the shots you take at it.

Ahhhhhh! You made me laugh so hard that I spit Mt Dew all over my keyboard. Man, that stuff burns when it comes out of your nose!

ASEO out

[DeadDMWalking]

They recently published the circulation numbers for both magazines. I don't really want to look through my recent issues for the section, since it is very small, and I don't think it is on the table of contents. In any case, Dungeon's circulation is MUCH smaller (IIRC), though of course it stands to reason. Something like 1/6 of D&D players are DMs, right? And of those, many spurn what may be the greatest resource for "creative" reasons.

I'd say that there aren't nearly as many interesting topics that come up in the Dragon general board that get a lot of posts. And I think that groups of DMs are more likely to take the hobby (too) seriously, and therefore devote a little more time to it.

[QSamantha]

No time to play wrote:

There are more than double the posts on the Dungeon general board than on the Dragon general board. I thought Dragon was the more popular magazine. (I prefer Dungeon myself...)

Which one has the higher circulation?

I don’t know the answer to your specific question. I can say that I think that, right now, Dungeon is the superior magazine and that may have something to do with it.

While I don’t think either Dungeon or Dragon is inherently a better magazine or concept, I think Dungeon has executed its concept better than Dragon. I find Dragon nearly unreadable in its present incarnation. For me, this is quite a flip-flop.

Until fairly recently, I never read Dungeon. As a DM, I figured I had no need for ‘canned’ adventures and hence no need for Dungeon. My attitude was changed by three things. Dungeon started including adventures for low, medium and high levels in every issue; this meant that at least one adventure in each issue now had the potential to be useful, everything else being equal. Dungeon began to include substantial Greyhawk content; as a longtime Greyhawker, this makes my toes curl up. While on that topic, I’d love to see some support in Dungeon for other old but good settings like Birthright, Al-Qadim and Oriental Adventures. Finally, Dungeon began to include non-adventure content - Critical Threats, Maps of Mystery, little articles like Wolf Bauer’s article on artist treasure.

Meanwhile, one door down, Dragon was self-immolating. There are issues of Dragon where the pages are so darkly coloured or oddly patterned or strangely laid out, with print that seems to all but vanish into the background, that you wonder if this is a gaming magazine or a Rorschach Test. That the content was often lackluster, disjointed or downright contemptible helped matters not at all. Before the relaunch came about, the Dragon seemed aimless, without direction or a sense of its own identity. Apparently, the Rorschach Tests were unrevealing. Unfortunately, the kindest way to describe the relaunched Dragon would be ‘busy.’ This continues to date. There seems to be a whole lot of small things going, often oddly partnered with a vaguely amorphous lead article, that all taken together don’t sum up to a good magazine.

To be fair, many of the individual Dragon articles are okay on their own but either somehow don’t add up to a compelling whole or are more than counterbalanced by articles that fall flat.

If there was one criticism I would make of Dragon articles generally, divorced from any specific reference to any one article or another, it would be that many of the game effects presented are muted, so much so that they appear all but bland. Blah is the way I would describe many of the actual gameplay features of too many Dragon articles. It is as if the authors were afraid to push the 3E rules set. The idea for an article and its description will sound cool but the execution will be timid, failing to deliver on the cool. These articles are all dressed up but go nowhere special.

Once, Dragon kicked, took chances and pushed boundaries. Each issue was exciting in that it dared the heights, even if the attempt to summit was not always successful. By comparison, Dragon has now made base camp at the Days Inn 12 miles from the foot of the mountain and spends its days in the room drinking soda, eating chips and watching daytime TV, rousing itself only long enough to turn the channel to next month’s issue. Too often, its like the energy of the past is gone and the Dragon is just going through the motions.

As I understand it, things are to change starting with Dragon 230. I will certainly look forward to seeing what Erik can do with the venerable Dragon. His touch with Dungeon has been nothing short of magic. I never thought I would buy an issue of Dungeon. While I have collection of gaming magazines, I never collected Dungeon. Now, I’m thinking about acquiring the back issues of Dungeon (I’m a completest, actually, I’m obsessive compulsive:-) but I have yet to acquire the much smaller number the back issues of Dragon I need to bring my collection up to date after a layoff. I hope Erik can ‘save’ the Dragon.

Samantha :)

[Alec Austin]

I think DeadDMWalking is right on about the number of interesting topics on the Dragon boards.

Also, I think QSamantha just nailed what's wrong with Dragon right at the moment. Most of the recent issues I've looked at haven't really had content that was ambitious enough. The fact-based articles have been improving steadily, but the rest of the magazine has felt either inconsistent or rather pedestrian.

On the other hand, I'm comparing a magazine read by my jaded twenty-something self to the heaping piles of Dragon magazine I read when I was an pre-teen lacking any critical discernment, which isn't exactly a fair comparison.

[Sublimity]

It is sad to say, but for all the years that Dungeon was around, I never knew about it. The store where I used to get my D&D stuff only carried Dragon. It wasn't until I got accidentally reaquainted with D&D that I discovered it. Ah, if only I'd known. . .

[ZimlonBane]

I'm completely with Sublimity on this one. Back in my 'glory days' I was only aware of Dragon. Now as a working adult, I find Dungeon invaluable to me as a person who is trying to relearn a game (much to my checking account's dismay due to my completist nature!) I essential slept with as a kid, whose rules changed while I was off doing a stint in the Navy.

I also agree 100% with QSamantha. I occasionally will purchase Dragon solely on impulse if an article title on the cover grabs my interest, and I am usually dissatisfied. For instance, I purchased the Dragon 3 or 4 issues back that had an article for Frank Hebert's Dune books that I love immensely. Purchased it, brought home to read and wasn't that stoked once I finished reading it. The info was great in and of itself but it was too short, not really groundbreaking, nothing that stuck with me, too short, too short, and just kind of thrown into the magazine with all the other small articles shotgun style.

If the new Dungeon did a Dune article (which I hope never ever happens because it's not DnD related, I'm just using it as a for instance example!) I would expect something as awesome as the Isle of Dread spread they did in #114 that people still talk about. Renewed the module setting, added new stuff, NEW ADVENTURE, etc.....(come on Dwellers of the Forbidden City...hint...hint.)

I hope this makes sense what I'm trying to say and I hope the magic that Erik Mona did to Dungeon is also done to the future Dragon because I'll probably buy it more often.

[Erik Mona]

Well, that's the idea.

#329 is promising. #330 is very, very good. Beyond then I hope they just get better and better.

--Erik

[ZimlonBane]

Sweet. Thanks for listening.

[Alec Austin]

Erik Mona wrote:

Well, that's the idea. #329 is promising. #330 is very, very good. Beyond then I hope they just get better and better.

I'm very hopeful based on the previews I've seen of #329, and if I like it and #330, you'll probably have another subscriber.