Tails and switching held items

The Tiefling's Prehensile tail allows you to retrieve an item as a swift action, but its not supple/ strong enough to wield a weapon or ready a shield with it.

1) So can the tail hold a weapon you could use in close fighting (longsword, dagger, etc...) while you wield a polearm (reach weapon) with your regular weapons, and switch? What action would it be to switch a weapon?

2) The tail cannot 'wield' a weapon. But, could you use it to balance a polearm (reach) with your primary hand while wielding a shield with your off-hand?

1) So can the tail hold a weapon you could use in close fighting (longsword, dagger, etc...) while you wield a polearm (reach weapon) with your regular weapons, and switch? What action would it be to switch a weapon?

It's not covered in the rules what action it is to put it in your hand unfortunately. I'd allow it with a dagger, (as a swift to retrieve, and a move to swap them out) but not a longsword. The description is "small stowed items". A longsword is outside the scope of that description, I would not even allow you to hold one with it.

2) The tail cannot 'wield' a weapon. But, could you use it to balance a polearm (reach) with your primary hand while wielding a shield with your off-hand?

Absolutely not. You are trying to substitute the word "balance", which is a term that does not occur in the rules (in regards to using weapons), with the correct word of "wield", which does. Polearms require two hands to wield. The tail specifically states that you cannot use it to wield a weapon. Attempting to use a different word like "balance" does not alter this fact.

Here's the gist of it: You're trying to do too much with this trait.

It's designed to be a nifty little trait that allows you to get a potion, or a scroll, or a minor magical doodad out of your backpack for you while you do other stuff. You're trying to use it as full blown 3rd arm.

I believe the swift action to retrieve an item with your tail is to pull out the item and put it into your hand. You don't actually carry the item in your tail.

Look at the similarly-named feat (don't have it in front of me at the moment). It gives you the same effects, except if you already have Prehensile Tail, it instead increases its functionality. Having both PH and the feat allows you to carry items with your tail, which means you can't do so without the feat.

Think of it this way: Can you pick up a pencil with your toes? Yes. Can you write an essay with a pencil held by your toes? Not really.

Same sort of thing with the tiefling's tail. It's a limb, yes, but not a particularly dexterous limb, or strong either.

It would take x3 as long, but I could write an essay with my toes.

The alternate racial trait (ART) description states that the tail can carry items. I would imagine the limitation would be based on size & strength, but it can carry items.

If its a swift action to retrieve the item and put it in your hand, what action to swap an item from tail to hand and vice versa? Similar to holding a two-handed weapon in one hand; you can't use it effectively but you can just carry it.

The alchemist's class feature for a vestigal arm provides a fully functioning third hand. I was wondering if the ART with the feat (Grasping tail) would allow something similar.

In electrical work like soldering, I use one hand to hold the connector, the other hand to hold the solder and my mouth to balance the wire.
Utilizing secondary appendages is common in tasks (monkeys, lizards, etc...). A tiefling's tail has been a part of their body their whole life. Seems reasonable that they would develop some utility with it over that period, reflected in the ART & feat choice.

I have picked the Prehensile tail (ART) and plan to pick up the Grasping tail (feat) because I think the flavor is cool. I was just wondering to what level of use I could use it.
Was just wondering if it would work to:
- wield a two-handed weapon with primary hand & tail
- wield a shield with off hand

Without the feat, it seems that I could carry a weapon (light or even one handed) with my tail and wield a two-handed weapon and swap out the two weapons fairly easily (swift).

The alternate racial trait (ART) description states that the tail can carry items.

Wait, really? I could've sworn... Hrm, would you mind quoting/linking the text of both the ART and the feat? That'd make this discussion a lot easier and more reliable. :/

Prehensile Tail: Many tieflings have tails, but some

have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items.
While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can
use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their
persons as a swift action. This racial trait
replaces fiendish sorcery.

Grasping Tail

Your tail becomes more useful.
Prerequisite: Tiefling.
Benefit: You can use your tail to grab stowed items.
While you cannot wield weapons with your tail, you can
use it to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on your
person as a swift action.
Special: If you have the prehensile tail racial trait, you
can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet
as a swift action as well as to grab stowed objects carried
on your person; you can hold such objects with your tail,
though you cannot manipulate them with your tail (other
than to put them in your hand).

Thanks Eric!

Now, to the questions:

1) Clearly you could carry your dagger in your tail while you fight with something else. As for switching, a couple of things to note: first, tail-grabbed items must be "small" items. You might get variance between GMs on whether a one-handed weapon counts, but a longspear is right out. Second, even with both the ART and the feat, the tail can still do nothing but grab and release, so nothing more complicated than that. Finally, nowhere do you gain the ability to put an item away with your tail. Keep that in mind.

There are no rules specifically for exchanging two items between hands (when neither hand starts out free), let alone involving a tail. Most people go with a free action to move an item from the hand it's in to an empty hand, but starting with two full hands and ending with two full hands is less common.

Now, I will say this: moving an item from your hand to your tail still involves your tail grabbing something, so I think calling it a swift action is fair. Additionally, I believe the intent of these abilities is that when you grab an item with your tail as a swift action, that includes putting it in your (previously empty) hand.

So if you were some kind of switch-hitter with a buckler, I could see you stowing your bow normally (move action), drawing your shortsword into your non-buckler hand with your tail (swift), and then having a standard left to either attack or move. So proper planning would allow some weapon juggling.

2) Normally, a PC has two hands on the polearm and both are considered wielding. To replace one of those hands with your tail, your tail would then be wielding. Doesn't work. Additionally, even with both abilities, it still says your tail can't "manipulate" the items except to drop them into your hand. Helping your hand wield a polearm would most certainly count as manipulating.

...first, tail-grabbed items must be "small" items.

No.

"...tails that can be used to carry items."
No limitation is stipulated about the weight or size of the object.
Now realistically, no, you probably cannot pull a wagon or toss gnomes with it. But it seems that the limitation would be something adjudicated by the DM & player based on the size & strength of the tiefling.
Holding a polearm or longsword with the tail seems as reasonable as holding it in your off-hand while picking something up in an adjacent square or retrieving a stowed object with your other appendage (hand).

Jiggy wrote:

...first, tail-grabbed items must be "small" items.

No.

Your adding to the description. The tail is limited to small items when retrieving stowed objects.

"...tails that can be used to carry items."
No limitation is stipulated about the weight or size of the object.
Now realistically, no, you probably cannot pull a wagon or toss gnomes with it. But it seems that the limitation would be something adjudicated by the DM & player based on the size & strength of the tiefling.
Holding a polearm or longsword with the tail seems as reasonable as holding it in your off-hand while picking something up in an adjacent square or retrieving a stowed object with your other appendage (hand).

Saying a trait description is something that "needs to be adjudicated" is "Danger, Danger Will Robinson" rules territory.

It is far easier, safer, and more logical to force the "item can be held" clause to the same restrictions as the "items that can be retrieved" section.

I totally get it. You want someone to tell you "sure, you can totally use your tail so you can wield a polearm and also have a shield" or "yeah, you can totally just flip-flop between a reach weapon and a longsword at-will." I don't think anyone is going to come along and do that for you. It's just outside the scope of what the racial trait is intended to do. I wanted the trait to be cooler than it is in reality too. The simple fact of the matter is it's just not that good. Useful? Yes, absolutely. Awesome and game-breaking? Not so much.

@cZak: Remember that the ART is written in paragraph form, not list form.

If it were in list form:

But that's not what's written.

Since it's in paragraph form, both sentences are referring to the same subject. Therefore, the items talked about in both sentences are the same, and the qualifier of "small" applies to both retrieving and carrying.

Remember: By definition, "rules as written" refers to the text's structure and form, not just its words. That's what "written" means.

I'm not try'n to troll.
I had a thought that with the prehensile tail trait and the Grasping tail feat, I would have something similar to the alchemist's vestigial arm; a trait & a feat were comparable to a class ability.

The goal here is to pitch the idea and arguments to the board before presenting them to the DM to see if they have merit or if they were off-rocker and not worth putting out to him.

Robb Smith's post was perhaps a bit harsh; I think it's clear you're not trying to troll.

As for the tail, I don't think it's supposed to be as useful as the vestigial arm. Levels are a far more precious resource than race or feats, so the two aren't really equal in "cost". Besides that, I think the differences in description are pretty clear about just how different their levels of functionality are.