Should you be able to mix and match Archetype features?

Its time for more ideas from ThroatPunchGames! A new idea everyday! I love archetypes, but feel I get hampered when I want features from different ones. I think you should be able to, but it should cost you something...maybe a feat...

Exchange Archetype-Feat-You may take this feat multiple times. When you take this feat, choose one Archetype ability from any other Archetype then your own. This ability replaces the normal ability of your class and Archetype.

A feat is, in my opinion, too much for additional archtype trades.

Now, spending a feat to BUY the benefits of an archetype trade (say... one feature of your choice for which you have sufficient level OR the first... 3 to 5 levels up to your level in the class) could be really interesting.

I haven't done the exact math on it, but something along those lines would be good.

Alternatively, a Trait to allow one to mix and match archetypes (treating replacement features as the features they replaced for purposes of stacking archetypes, keeping in mind one has to apply the archetypes one at a time, going from Base Class > First Archetype applied > Second Archetype applied) might work out pretty well.

In fact, now that I thought that up I think I'm going to use that trait for my own games...

Archetypes are balanced around the idea that you get all of the features, and sometimes (often enough actually) one strong ability is balanced out by a couple weaker abilities. Being able to pick and choose would more or less negate this balance factor, so it's not the best idea.

Further, class abilities are almost always better than a feat, so you're trading a weaker feature for a stronger one.

This is especially true for the archetype abilities such a feat would most often be used for.

Absolutely the hell not.

IF I was going to do this, I'll take the feats that give me everything I want from an archetype without taking any of the tradeoffs.

The problem is that Archetypes are not just a grab bag of bolted on features. They are creations of roles. More and more options on builder rules opens up more floodgates for abuse. Many major features of archetypes are based on tradeoffs.

Here's an example of what I could do with your feat. Right now I have an archetype A that eliminates divine grace. I'll trade that for a feature from archetype B that just modifies it a bit.

LazarX and Cheapy demonstrate the other side of the fence in this regard. If you plan to publish it, going with my suggested trait option and defining it as the DM's choice of a trait or a feat might be best (Forbidding one to 'reaquire' lost core features of the class might help reduce the backlash from some naysayers.)

I'll also throw my hat in with Cheapy and LazarX and say absolutely not, no way, no how. The whole point of an archetype is that you balance out good abilities with some slightly worse ones, and if you let people pick and choose, then you're screwing up the balance big time.

Now, I know another publisher has made a system of essentially creating a new archetype for yourself by trading out one ability for a similarly-powered ability. I can't remember the name of the publication, but I remember that you could trade out, for example, sneak attack for favored enemy, or something of that nature. I also remember this being super exploitable, and was able to create a character that was better than any of the base classes. You just can't start mixing archetypes without having balance built in.

If you're talking about Super Genius Games Archetype Packages, they don't actually recommend trading class features between classes (but do give some guidelines to GMs who want to allow it, and using those guidelines I haven't found any problem with it whatsoever.) That being said... I've also never allowed anyone to trade for the Barbarian Rage Package (nor have I seen any Barbarian willing to trade their Rage Package out.) IMHO it was a mistake to turn the entirety of the Barbarian's Rage stuff into a single package.

I have played in a game where my DM allowed me to to use two Archetypes for a Paladin , the Hospitaler and the Warrior of the Holy Light, because they didn't interfere with the same class abilities. So having multible archetypes shouldn't be a problem in a game if they don't over lap. in the end my Paladin had more straight up healing power than the Cleric but nowhere near the versatility of a normal Paladin or Cleric.

Not no way, not no how.

Archetypes are variants of core/base classes where abilities have been swapped out in a fair and balanced* manner. A trait/feat that allows replacing any archetype feature with any other archetype feature bypasses this. The potential for -- no, guarantee of -- abuse is mind-boggling.

*in theory at least, though it may not be true for all 3pp or Superstar entry efforts.

As has been noted, you can ake on multiple archetypes as long as they don't replace any of the same original class features, but there too you need to take the full package(s) as is.

Correction.

*in theory at least, though it may not be true for all 3pp or Superstar or Paizo efforts

I have played in a game where my DM allowed me to to use two Archetypes for a Paladin , the Hospitaler and the Warrior of the Holy Light, because they didn't interfere with the same class abilities. So having multible archetypes shouldn't be a problem in a game if they don't over lap. in the end my Paladin had more straight up healing power than the Cleric but nowhere near the versatility of a normal Paladin or Cleric.

What you did is totally fine, you can definitely have multiple archetypes on a character if the abilities don't overlap. What the OP is asking about, though, is allowing a player to pick specific abilities FROM an archetype. It would be a very bad idea.

ya i agree there really cant be anything balanced about picking and choosing abilities from archetypes.

I'm going to throw my hat in the ring of "no way, no how" - not as a trait, not as a feat, hell, not as two feats. For all the reasons suggested above. There are plenty of class features that are significantly more powerful than two feats - for instance, Smite Evil.

Now, as a house rule (since we're in the appropriate forums), I'm perfectly fine with a DM who wants to allow players to switch archetypes around a little bit, or add a few things here and there - with DM approval. Certain players will see this as the opportunity to pick up interesting and flavorful abilities that make for a cool character concept, without breaking the game. Others will go through the archetypes and look for the most powerful abilities of each archetype and try to sucker their DM into letting them have them.

It depends very strongly on the player as to if this would be a good idea, or a bad idea.

There are archetypes that slow the progression of certain abilities in order to receive a more powerful feature. Being able to choose the more powerful feature, then retain normal progression of those balancing abilities, simply because most other archetypes don't have the slowed progression means I just broke the initial archetype.

For home games, fine, but for publication, I would not recommend building something around this idea.

I'm going to jump in and agree with everyone else - what the OP is proposing would be a really poor design choice.

Archetypes are designed to be taken as a collective, balanced whole. Allowing a feat or something to just selectively cherry pick and chose individual archetype abilities you want is a bad idea.

Just make a very themed feat chain instead?

Thanks for the feedback. Glad to see a bunch of thoughts on this one. The majority of you all think this is way to over-powered so I think this one is dead. Back to the drawing board....