Ring of Spell Knowledge

Can someone please give an official ruling to this item as it is needing lots of clarification.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-spell-knowledge

What action is necessary to teach the ring a spell, is it a free action? If it is a standard action, do you need to ready an action to teach it a spell as another character casts it?

Can you change the spell in the ring? Does it require an action to clear it out? Do you have to clear the spell out before you can teach it another?

If I teach a spell to the ring from a scroll, does it consume the scroll? If I take scribe scroll, can I make a pseudo spellbook by collection scrolls and swap out my spell daily?

RAW suggests that you can teach it divine spells, is this a typo?

While I can't answer the question as to the actions needed for various parts of your questions - I would suggest using the time needed to teach a spell to a familiar as a guideline, but the rules make no clear suggestion to do as such - I can answer the last question.

No, RAW does not suggest you can teach it divine spells - there is no typo in that regard.

The description specifies it only benefits arcane spontaneous casters, which cannot cast divine spells (even a Bard casting cure light wounds is not casting a divine spell - since it is not the spell itself, but the class which casts the spell that determines whether it is arcane or divine).

A character can, however, put arcane spells not normally on their own spell list - like a sorcerer putting cure light wounds (from the bard list) into a Ring of Spell Knowledge II, or a bard putting fireball (from the sorcerer/wizard list) into a Ring of Spell Knowledge IV.

:(

Getting the spell into the ring requires a Standard Action or longer (summon spells take a full round, certain spells can take in upwards of 10 minutes of casting), since the caster still has to cast the (scroll/use-activated/or spell) into the ring. The item is not specific about un-learning the spell. Casting a spell from a scroll consumes the scroll in most circumstances. There are always nit-pick, quirky rules of avoiding things like this. If I was a betting woman, I would bet that the intent was for arcane spells only.

I don't think this is supported by the books. You aren't casting the spell, so I don't see anything suggesting that the casting time of the spell would affect teaching time. I think you are thinking of the Ring of Spell Storing which actually requires you cast the spell into the ring.

Link: Ring of spell knowledge

Mapleswitch would win her bet.

"This ring comes in four types: ring of spell knowledge I, ring of spell knowledge II, ring of spell knowledge III, and ring of spell knowledge IV. All of them are useful only to spontaneous arcane spellcasters."

To "teach" the ring a new spell all it says is that the caster must have access to the spell and succeed in a DC20 spellcraft check. I'd probably go with

Learn Spell from Spellbook: Learning a spell from a spellbook takes 1 hour per level of the spell (0-level spells take 30 minutes).

While I absolutely agree the intent was probably for arcane spells only, the following paragraph allows for divine spells to be learned by the ring.

A ring of spell knowledge is only a storage space; the wearer must still encounter a written, active, or cast version of the spell and succeed at a DC 20 Spellcraft check to teach the spell to the ring. Thereafter, the arcane spellcaster may cast the spell as though she knew the spell and it appeared on her class’ spell list.

Here is why, you can encounter an active or cast spell, and teach the ring the spell via a DC 20 spellcraft check. So if a Bard were to watch a Cleric cast Divine Power, he could make a DC 20 spellcraft check and teach the ring the spell.

The last line is the crucial part, because the spell in the ring, Divine Power, is treated as though "she knew the spall and it appeared on her class' spell list. You no have a Bard that can cast Divine Power, in addition to all the other buff spells a Bard gets.

Tels, since it doesn't specifically contradict the general restriction that arcane casters can't cast divine spells, that paragraph doesn't say what you think it says.

thenobledrake,

Whether a spell is Arcane or Divine is defined by the person's class (who is casting the spell).
If you are casting Cure Light Wounds as a Bard it is an Arcane spell. If you are casting Cure Light Wounds as a Cleric it is a Divine spell.

If you are casting Fireball as a Wizard it is an Arcane spell. If you are casting Fireball as a Cleric it is a Divine spell.

What does matter is if it on your spell list. If it is not you cannot cast it.

The Ring appears to bypass the spell list requirement.

So, in Tels' example, the Bard is casting Divine Power as an arcane spell because:
1) It is on his spell list (as per the Ring)
2) He knows the spell (as per the Ring)
3) He is casting the spell and he is an Arcane spellcaster.

Maybe the last row in the item description will help you guy acknowledge its limitations.

Arcane spells that do not appear on the wearer's class list are treated as one level higher for all purposes (storage and casting).

Arcane spells. It could be written better, but if arcane spells that aren't on the caster level list count one level higher, and divine spells aren't cited at all, it is logic to assume that the ring can't contain divine spells.

And Gauss, if you meet a divine version of CLW you can't teach it to the ring as a arcane version of the spell.

Diego Rossi,

That is what I get for only responding to elements of a post rather than the whole thing. Thanks. :)

To correct my earlier post:
Spell type is defined by class casting the spell (still).

The ring bypasses the spell list requirement but it appears that the intent is that it cannot be taught divine spells. This is not explicitly written though (as Diego stated).

Agree'd. I stated in the beginning of my post that I fully believe the intent was for Arcane spells only. If it were to come up in a game I run, I'd only allow Arcane spells (PFS or not).

However, just because I would rule on something one way, doesn't mean I won't argue that something is, technically, possible per RAW. The best I can tell, it's technically possible for the Ring of Spell Knowledge to let an arcane caster cast divine spells.

Honestly, I'm not even sure if it would OP or broken to allow the Ring to let Arcane cast Divine, but, I prefer to keep my Arcane and Divine spells, mostly, separate.

I don't mind so much Divine casters getting access to Arcane spells, because most of the Arcane spells are direct damage (like Fireball) and Divine has so few of those as it is. But letting Arcane have access to Divine is another story.

I know it's not possible, but could you imagine a Bard or Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple with all the major buffs spells already possible, also having access to Divine Power, Divine Luck, Righteous Might, Shield of Faith etc. to buff themselves with? Instead of CoDzilla, you'd end up BoDzilla's or SoDzilla's instead.

Maybe the last row in the item description will help you guy acknowledge its limitations.

PRD wrote:

Arcane spells that do not appear on the wearer's class list are treated as one level higher for all purposes (storage and casting).

Arcane spells. It could be written better, but if arcane spells that aren't on the caster level list count one level higher, and divine spells aren't cited at all, it is logic to assume that the ring can't contain divine spells.

And Gauss, if you meet a divine version of CLW you can't teach it to the ring as a arcane version of the spell.

That is what I am saying. By RAW they can cast divine spells, but by common sense you could assume this is not what was intended.

Divine spells are never mentioned, so the rules as written are silent on this point.

But if it doesn't say you can't do it then you can! As soon I die, I am able to take actions again because the dead condition doesn't say that I can't take actions.

But if it doesn't say you can't do it then you can! As soon I die, I am able to take actions again because the dead condition doesn't say that I can't take actions.

True Story.

Whether a spell is Arcane or Divine is defined by the person's class (who is casting the spell).

That is correct, and is exactly what I was talking about.

The person you are seeing cast a divine spell is of a class that casts divine spells - you aren't casting it, so it doesn't matter that you are an arcane caster.

The Ring appears to bypass the spell list requirement.

It does, yes, but not before the spell is put into the ring.

It actually says "thereafter" - once you get the spell into the ring it counts as being on your list and being known... but before it gets put into the ring there is no mention that you are allowed special interaction with non-arcane spells, so the general rules that arcane casters cannot cast divine spells are not specifically bypassed.

Now, the ring isn't perfectly clear as to how it is meant to work, I agree with that much - but as a role-playing game rule it is text telling what you are allowed to do, not a list of what you cannot do with which to declare anything not expressly forbidden is allowed.

It doesn't have to have words specifically disallowing arcane spells. It can only do what it is described as doing. Since no mention is made of its ability to learn divine spells, it has no such ability.

Can someone please give an official ruling to this item as it is needing lots of clarification.

Ring of Spell Knowledge

What action is necessary to teach the ring a spell, is it a free action? If it is a standard action, do you need to ready an action to teach it a spell as another character casts it?

Can you change the spell in the ring? Does it require an action to clear it out? Do you have to clear the spell out before you can teach it another?

If I teach a spell to the ring from a scroll, does it consume the scroll? If I take scribe scroll, can I make a pseudo spellbook by collection scrolls and swap out my spell daily?

RAW suggests that you can teach it divine spells, is this a typo?

A ring of spell knowledge is only a storage space; the wearer must still encounter a written, active, or cast version of the spell and succeed at a DC 20 Spellcraft check to teach the spell to the ring.

Teaching: You cannot teach it as a spell is being cast, only after it is cast. Action is not defined, so it defaults to a standard action.

Change the Spell: Text is silent. RAI is probably yes, without needing to clear anything.

Scroll: Since there is no text saying the ring consumes an active or cast version of a spell, and that you can read "a written version" as a spellbook, RAI is probably to not consume the scroll. Also, there is no daily limit to teaching the ring, so you could change out the spell then cast it every other round.

Divine: Text is silent.

It actually says "thereafter" - once you get the spell into the ring it counts as being on your list and being known... but before it gets put into the ring there is no mention that you are allowed special interaction with non-arcane spells, so the general rules that arcane casters cannot cast divine spells are not specifically bypassed.

I recall someone being quotes as "it does only what it sais it does" or something like that. It has a rule for dealing with off-list arcane spells. It does not have a restriction of learning divine mentioned, and since some spells are found on both sides, it is not even clear if the spell noted is divine or arcane. Once the spell is in the ring, it is on your list, and therefore of the type of caster you are. The rule about arcane casters casting divine spells is not even involved. Anyhow, I thought that was a Scroll casting check and not a rule, or it was a design philosophy and not actually a rule.

Best part? You can Take 20 with your Spellcraft check.

/cevah