Dread Class Advice

Hey there!

I'm running a campaign where I have a character playing the [psionic] class {Dread}. Now, it's a fun class, but the player in question exploits the already slightly-brokenness (word??) of the Dread class, on top of his broken character stats. While it's always fun to have an OP character, he generally overuses his powers to where it has started to affect the fun the other players in he group are having. I've come up with a couple different ways I want to handle this:

1. Create new creature/modify old ones to have the [psionic] subclass so there is a balance of power on the field.

2. He is a demon-hunting fanatic, so I thought perhaps keeping him distracted during combats with demons/devils - this seems contrived and not a solution, just a temporary bandage.

3. Use NPC's as opponents, and introduce a stronger psionics presence in the world of the game.

4. Pit him against a high CR creature without the rest of the group to reinforce the emphasis on team work. I don't want the player to feel bullied, but reminded that it's not a one-man show.

Now, I'm stuck as to which approach I should take in campaigns with the character. I wanted to weigh in here and see if anyone else has some first-hand advice?

I enjoy the class and [psionics] in general, and would just like to find a way to balance out the PC's power so the others have an enjoyable experience.

Thanks!

It would probably help if you told us more about what power he is abusing and how it is slightly broken according to you. It's difficult to suggest solutions when we don't know what the problem is :)

Care to explain what he is doing that is broken? And when you say broken character stats you refer to high rolled stats right?

Also, what is the rest of the group playing? Are you guys using psionic/magic transparancy?

Sorry guys! He's an Aasimar Dread class, CN, with the Fear in Flesh archetype. The broken stats I refer to the 15 point buy-in rule for stats. He more or less spent a majority of those points boosting Charisma to 20, giving him a +5 in bonuses (has been fun for RP, but this is ruining combat (see below)
He's supercharged his CHA score, giving him 27 extra power points (He's somewhere around 72 total, which therein lies the rub). Now, because of his archetype, he gains two claw attacks (Claws of the Beast) and a bite (Bite of the Wolf) in lieu of his weapons as he transforms into a 'hideous nightmare beast'. He can pump these to do max damage (6d6/claw, I think?) for a somewhat paltry cost to his massive power points pool.

Does psionic/magic transparency mean they're treated as the same for the sake come mechanics and combat? If so, then yes. If not, please explain! I'm reading up on psionics as much as I can too, but it's more foreign to me than it is to the player.

Now, there is one other catch to all this: he has the shadow twin ability as of level 11 (they're now 13), and should something be shaken or have any type of fear affecting them, it gains its own initiative and move pool.

My biggest problem is I'm trying to find a way to just balance them out so the rest of the group aren't left as benchwarmers.

The rest of the group consists of:
A Half-orc Ranger 9/Druid 4 (NG,with the shared favored enemy bonus class feature), An elf mesmerist 13 (CN -, A human Cleric 13 (NG - character is great healer/wisely uses spells), and possibly a half-elf Magus 13 (we're still unsure if they're joining us). They all do well to work together and attack as a team in combat, but the Dread tends to pump their power points into every attack, and there's rarely an enemy left for anyone to play against.

Sorry if this sounds like rambling, I'm just trying to think of specifics and examples from previous sessions.

Well, the Ranger/Druid is (probably) going to be behind no matter what happens as that's a pretty unhelpful multiclass. The Mesmerist (not super familiar but a glance at their stuff makes them seem fine) and the Cleric should be doing very good though compared to the Dread which kind of stuck out to me as way more conditional Cryptic (in that it heavily relies on the fear status). What ability is the Dread using to maximize Claw Damage? As that may be the issue right there.

Psionic/Magic transparency means that powers are spells for purposes of being dispelled, suppressed, etc. It means SR applies to powers that have PR: Yes and PR applies to spells that have SR: Yes. It means that both spells and powers can be detected by powers and spells that detect one or the other. Basically you should just treat Psionic Powers as Magic and spells in most cases.

I get the feeling the Dread is using some rule wrong and that the Cleric and Mesmerist have lower system mastery then the Dread Player. This could also be a consequence of Psionic classes being very well written and having a higher power "floor" though a lower power "ceiling" then classes like the Cleric.

The big rule to remember about Psionics is:

"You cannot spend more power points then your manifester level."*

*Unless an ability explicitly says so.

Also I don't recall the Dread having any way to pierce Fear Immunity, which at the levels you are playing it is literally something everyone should have. Greater Heroism is very easy for high level foes to have making them much less useful at high levels.

Aura of Fear (Su)

At 3rd level, a dread radiates a palpably daunting aura that causes all enemies within 10 feet to take a –4 penalty on saving throws against fear effects. Creatures that are normally immune to fear lose that immunity while within 10 feet of a dread with this ability. This ability functions only while the dread remains conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead.

Though, it has to be fear immunity, it does not pierce immunity to mind effecting, which is all encompassing.

D20pfsrd.com wrote:

Aura of Fear (Su)

At 3rd level, a dread radiates a palpably daunting aura that causes all enemies within 10 feet to take a –4 penalty on saving throws against fear effects. Creatures that are normally immune to fear lose that immunity while within 10 feet of a dread with this ability. This ability functions only while the dread remains conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead.

Good catch. I should have figured there was something, since DSP printing something without a means to prevent it's main schtick from being shutdown would be unusual. But ya, Immunity to Mind-affecting also really hurts them, though it is much harder to come by in PF.

The big rule to remember about Psionics is:

"You cannot spend more power points then your manifester level."*

This is important.

Most who feel a DSP psionic class is OP either has the character breaking the rules or comparing an optimized character with unoptimized characters.

Yeah an Aegis with 18 strength, a greatsword and power attack will look OP next to a 14 strength paladin who doesn't use power attack (cause it is too confusing).

With such high stats, how is he being so accurate? I am guessing he is using one of the precognition powers to boost his attack rolls.

If he is you can hit him with a dispell magic. That could get his natural weapons or any other buff. Vermins (swarms!) and constructs are good choices too. Don't go too overboard though. Those foes are tough on most parties.

Also, try encounters with lots of same CR (13) or lower CR (choose CR 11 foes accurate for their rating and with good will saves. Inquisitors for example). There will be too many bodies for the Dread to slay them all. Also their lower CR means that the rest of the party can kill them easily and feel awesome.

Kryzbyn wrote:

D20pfsrd.com wrote:

Aura of Fear (Su)

At 3rd level, a dread radiates a palpably daunting aura that causes all enemies within 10 feet to take a –4 penalty on saving throws against fear effects. Creatures that are normally immune to fear lose that immunity while within 10 feet of a dread with this ability. This ability functions only while the dread remains conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead.

Good catch. I should have figured there was something, since DSP printing something without a means to prevent it's main schtick from being shutdown would be unusual. But ya, Immunity to Mind-affecting also really hurts them, though it is much harder to come by in PF.

Seriously! This changes everything.

Thanks everyone for all the advice.
Like I said, I'm still learning the finer mechanics of the game, and this is all really helpful.

I'll let you know how it all works out!!

VH

Alright, so looking it all over there's a couple things to look at.

If they used a 15 point buy (which is standard) and he got 20 charisma, he had to buy an 18 (for 17 points) and the rest of his stats have to total out to a -2. Which means negative stats somewhere, probably dex, int, and wis as the archetype is heavily melee and as a d8 class he needs the con. My best case is 14/7/14/7/7/18 bought, which is a terrible stat array. If you're saying he now has 20 Cha (bought with level ups), that's still half of the build points at the beginning.

Unless he's got a feat or talent or something to let him change it, I don't see any way for him to augment his bite of the wolf and claws of the beast. He gets their effect (unaugmented, as it doesn't say it is augmented), not the actual spells. Even if he could he can only drop ML points into any spell at any time without... overchannel? The psionic feat that lets you bypass the cap by 2, I think. As a medium character he can throw in 11 points for 3d6 claws, 4d6 large, but can't reach 6d6. Ditto the bite (11 points and 3d8 at best). But he can't do that anyway, so it's irrelevant.

He can only spend his power points on his actual powers. Which are, for the most part, unrelated to being a good melee combatant. Lots of debuffs and fear, a few defensive powers, a couple really high level utility ones.