HeroLab Headaches

Deanoth wrote:

Buri again.. you can do it YOURSELF sir. You do NOT NEED to repurchase the material for Hero Lab at all. They give you the option to add the material and even the community has done alot of it already too. So that is up to you.

If I were to utilize Hero Lab, I most certainly would have to purchase it again. If I didn't, that would be piracy. Or, do you mean to say I could download the application for free, input all the feats/classes/etc for free, and never pay a dime for using it?

Buri, if you no longer OWN Hero Lab, download it without buying the core product then yes you would be pirating it. BUT if you do own the core product and pathfinder license... then you can enter the information yourself for the individual books and or utilize the community database for the pathfinder data if you like.

That's something to consider.

Also, if you have a group of friends that are willing to help with the costs, you can buy additional licenses (you get two, and can buy two more). Each License is good for one computer, so you can put the software on up to four machines. That means up to four 'partners' to absorb the cost and each partner has equal access to it. Suddenly, $150+ dollars is not that bad; less than $40 per person is (or should be) affordable.

:)

<shrug>
Well it might not be absolutly correct in some stacking situarions, but its best strength is that it is consistent. Everyone in our group uses it.
Any errors should be more or less equal.

I will know have to go look at their fourms as well, (more reading to do).

Also, if you have a group of friends that are willing to help with the costs, you can buy additional licenses (you get two, and can buy two more). Each License is good for one computer, so you can put the software on up to four machines. That means up to four 'partners' to absorb the cost and each partner has equal access to it. Suddenly, $150+ dollars is not that bad; less than $40 per person is (or should be) affordable.

:)

By the reading of their ToS that would be pirating. They specifically say its meant for you and your computers, so if you have more than one computer you can put it on it.

I miss E-Tools... *sigh*

I miss E-Tools... *sigh*

Still have mine up and running. Don't use it very often, but do load it up for nostalgia purposes once in a while.

People used to gripe about that application too if you remember...

You pay $11-$13 for a companion book from Paizo (i.e. Orcs of Golarion).

You pay $5 (or less) for a data package for HeroLab that contains the material from 4-5 companion books (Race bundle). Do people really consider that "buying the same thing twice"??

My group uses HeroLab, and never looked back. Any bugs are either corrected in their frequent updates or are corner cases that never once have come up, and if they did, we'd make a note and work around it.

I enjoy the program. I buy things and here but I wish they would add psionics to it.

I enjoy the program. I buy things and here but I wish they would add psionics to it.

Lone wolf has not done it yet nor have they any plans as far as I know at least until Paizo does it. BUT it has been done through the community. So if you do a search on the Lone Wolf Forums for Shadowchemosh you will find it on the site he moderates. I personally do not have it as of yet but I am told it is fairly well done.

Shalafi2412 wrote:

I enjoy the program. I buy things and here but I wish they would add psionics to it.

Lone wolf has not done it yet nor have they any plans as far as I know at least until Paizo does it. BUT it has been done through the community. So if you do a search on the Lone Wolf Forums for Shadowchemosh you will find it on the site he moderates. I personally do not have it as of yet but I am told it is fairly well done.

Actually official support for Psionics is coming. This was announced a while ago both from LW and Dreamscared press. One of the reasons we have not put out a new version of community Psionics Unleashed package lately is we knew this was coming. So we decided to wait for official full support of Psioncs in Pathfinder HL.

So just wait a little longer. =)

Yes, Dreamscarred press achieved this as part of their Ultimate Psionics kickstarter. The book itself is in final production and will be released very shortly, then they can turn their attention to those other items that have not yet completed from the kickstarter so that it may be provided to their backers and put up for sale through their site.

>jic someone presumes that I know nothing about HL:
I've been using HL for years now.
I'm on the Beta Team.
The devs have become my friends. We talk. :)

In my past experience with users proclaiming the buggy nature of HL, 95% of the time it is in fact that user's error, not the program. There are some things that the program doesn't get 100% correct. They are aware of them. Hundreds of bugs that has been around for years?! Hardly.

HL has become a must-have program for me. I won't game without it. It does not hamper my play or my understanding of the rules or math behind the numbers. Like any tool, your proficiency with it determines your success with it.

I know I can say bug reports get fixed as I've been one to fix some for two of the packages. I get frustrated when bugs I post don't get fixed right away, but I know Aaron, Mathias, Hollis, and Colen (and probably more that I haven't worked with) are working on them.

For those wanting psionic support check out the latest Ultimate psionics KS update!

Yeah Baby - It is getting closer now :)

What are native psionic supports?

>jic someone presumes that I know nothing about HL:

I've been using HL for years now.
I'm on the Beta Team.
The devs have become my friends. We talk. :)

In my past experience with users proclaiming the buggy nature of HL, 95% of the time it is in fact that user's error, not the program. There are some things that the program doesn't get 100% correct. They are aware of them. Hundreds of bugs that has been around for years?! Hardly.

HL has become a must-have program for me. I won't game without it. It does not hamper my play or my understanding of the rules or math behind the numbers. Like any tool, your proficiency with it determines your success with it.

No, it's the bugs they don't know about that cause the issues. But calculating Monk's flurry bonus when the character has multiple sources of BAB is a big one and one WL has known about for sometime and remains unfixed.

I'm not saying HL is a bad product, I own it, I like it, I recommend it to DM's, but it is not perfect and people shouldn't get the impression that it is. There are builds it cannot handle, there are issues with stacking bonuses, and the more complex your character the more likely you are to encounter these problems. Whether you go back and audit the sheet to find out is on you.

BigDTbone,
The Flurry of Blows is a big one and yes they are VERY aware of it. But as they have said it is not an easy fix by ANY Means... but it CAN be manually adjusted too in the Adjustments tab in HL.

Lone Wolf and HL are far from perfect and when you factor in the human element in data entry and programming there is always going to be flaws, it is how they deal with them that makes Hero Lab good in my opinion.

Before you say it... the so called easy fix in Flurry of Blows with adjustments is a band-aid not a true fix by any means. :)

It's good to buy the content if you ever want to play to primarily support the source of that content so they keep releasing content. :) I also buy all my PFRPG print materials from a local game store to give a tip to a small local business that hosts PFS, my one "home" game group regularly, keeps us supplied with snacks and so on. I've bought a couple AP books for Shattered Star twice, once in print, once in PDF on this site, but that was for the maps so the double purchase wasn't a waste.

A HL purchase would be next to a complete waste to me. Like I said, I can put together tools for my own use as necessary. HL is just an index and I can use the PRD, D20PFSRD, and NA site just fine to duplicate that usefulness. I also have the core books, campaign setting books, player companions in print and vastly prefer physical books if I'm not under a time constraint to put something together.

Fantastic. More power to you. Not all of us are that gifted. Since you obviously are, there's no need for you to buy anything, just grab PCGen and code whatever you need with your "leet" skills. There's no need to harp on the costs of something you never intend to buy.

My "leet" skills, as you put it, started with a teach yourself in 21 days book. Anyone can pick one up. There was a question and I responded to it. Then people responded to me and I to them. It's called conversation.

Shalafi2412 wrote:

I enjoy the program. I buy things and here but I wish they would add psionics to it.

Lone wolf has not done it yet nor have they any plans as far as I know at least until Paizo does it. BUT it has been done through the community. So if you do a search on the Lone Wolf Forums for Shadowchemosh you will find it on the site he moderates. I personally do not have it as of yet but I am told it is fairly well done.

If you look at the Character config screen it does have a checkoff option for D20 psionics listed as a "planned expansion".

But as it's been pointed out, why wait for something out of date, when Chemosh has already provided Dreamscarred support?

What are native psionic supports?

Currently, there is a community package that has psionics in it. However, it treats psionics as spells, because there's no other way to do it in Hero Lab.

Lone Wolf is currently working on adding psionics as a supported mechanic for Pathfinder. Meaning powers, power points, etc, instead of psionic powers that use spell slots. They had full support for psionics in 3.5, they're updating that so that Psionics Unleashed / Expanded / Ultimate Psionics work in Hero Lab as expected, instead of using work-arounds.

BigDTbone,

The Flurry of Blows is a big one and yes they are VERY aware of it. But as they have said it is not an easy fix by ANY Means... but it CAN be manually adjusted too in the Adjustments tab in HL.

Lone Wolf and HL are far from perfect and when you factor in the human element in data entry and programming there is always going to be flaws, it is how they deal with them that makes Hero Lab good in my opinion.

Before you say it... the so called easy fix in Flurry of Blows with adjustments is a band-aid not a true fix by any means. :)

I agree with you and I am not terribly concerned about the timeline of such a fix. When I DM having an erroneous +1 here or there is not a major issue for my NPC's and when I play I audit my own sheets so I catch the issues.

But not caring/knowing your sheet is wrong =/= your sheet is correct. People shouldn't get the impression that HL is perfect, because it is not.

Deanoth, the above isn't directed at you specifically, but there are posters in this forum trying to give the impression that herolab is a good choice if you want to take a "set it and forget it" approach to character generation, and I feel compelled to disagree with that position.

I work on the general notion that $1 spent gets me 1 hours worth of entertainment.

So to purchase say $150 worth of HeroLab software/data would give me 1 years worth of value if I was gaming/GMing for just 3 hours every week.

I can see me using it for considerably more time than that and benefit from its 'quality' and attention to detail in most aspects of my chosen game system.

Windows itself is constantly being updated because of 'bugs'. I'm sure this is standard practice with any software, else version numbers would not exist.

For some, perhaps the issue is with parting with income rather than an innate problem with the price of the software.

HeroLab gets a firm thumbs-up from me.

Anybody know when Shadowrun 5th Ed is going to be available in HL?

Also have the HL guys talked to ICE about the new edition of Rolemaster?