I've picked this up only to be alerted there's a second copy that doesn't have the Pathfinder logo on it...what's up?
That was a big draw for me-- knowing this was compatible, specifically because I was considering a project and thought this might be a good fit. Are we not compatible anymore, because that's going to make me a little crabby?
-Ben.
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I've picked this up only to be alerted there's a second copy that doesn't have the Pathfinder logo on it...what's up?
That's an interesting point. The description on RPGNow says it's "fully compatible with Pathfinder".
I was under the impression that it would be for $7.99 through the month of January (to match what the price is over at RPGNow)?
Chief Technical Officer
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I've picked this up only to be alerted there's a second copy that doesn't have the Pathfinder logo on it...what's up?That's an interesting point. The description on RPGNow says it's "fully compatible with Pathfinder".
It uses OGL content derived from the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, but it's a complete, standalone game system.
For a product to use the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Compatibility License, Paizo requires that it be *usable alongside* the Pathfinder RPG, and not a *replacement for* the Pathfinder RPG. (The exact license text says "In order to make use of the compatible content, your product must operate under and rely on the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Standalone game systems are in no event authorized hereunder.") I assume the publisher knew that already, because they didn't actually put a Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Compatibility Logo on it or use any of the other text required by the Compatibility License.
Without the Compatibility License, though, calling it "fully compatible with Pathfinder" violates Section 7 of the OGL, which says that "You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark."
I called the publisher's attention to that, and they quickly uploaded a new version with that reference removed.
I was under the impression that it would be for $7.99 through the month of January (to match what the price is over at RPGNow)?The publisher didn't tell us anything about that...
I tried to search for his original post, but it appears to have been in vain. That's completely up to him. Rather than wait, I figured I'd pick it up for 2 bucks less there. Given that you take a lesser percentage here than RPGNow does, I'd figure it'd be in his best interest to match accordingly. But as a consumer, I obviously acquired it where it made the most sense to me. =)
Urizen,
Would you consider posting a review after you've had the chance to read through it?
Urizen,
Would you consider posting a review after you've had the chance to read through it?
I confess to being a procrastinator when it comes to reviewing. :P That said, it's going to take some time as this sucker is 455 pages. I can at least say up front that it comes with a black and white PDF and a color PDF. I had issues about a lack of proofreading from the free copy that was disseminated with the hopes that someone addressed that matter in this release. But knowing that I was itching for something sci-fi to appear for Pathfinder and noting the price point, I'd figure ... why not?
I'll kick it around a little and see what shakes out. =)
EDIT: The author did indicate that they were looking into P.O.D. for it, fyi.
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There's over 400 pages of content, with only a small percentage being copy-pasted OGL necessities. I'll review it sometime, but it's a long read.
Seven standard races (one with two variants), five base classes (charmer, infiltrator, outlander, techie, and trooper) plus an optional psychic class, new skills for a future setting, long equipment chapter, and so on. The book mainly fixes d20 Future mistakes and updates it to Pathfinder standards (but not being officially PF compatible); savvy GMs will have a field day with this book.
So far, all the mechanics I've seen are solid, but the design of the book might push some away. $10 is a decent price for a rulebook. Without just going ahead and reviewing it now, I'll say that the new android race is perfect (Android type replaces construct simply for convenience).
I haven't got time to do an in-depth review, so I'll give a short one here, because it's bothering me.
$10 gets you the book in a color file, a B&W file, and the character sheet.
This lumbers in at 455 pages. And I can see why they did it-- I may not agree, but I can see why.
Layout is...straightforward. There is some attempt at flair around the borders, but this could have benefited from a real layout artist. Although at 455 pages, I feel that would have been a significant investment.
Art is...mostly computer rendered. Most of the figures are female, apparently done in Bryce or Maya, or a similar application. It fits with the theme, but there's also an interior artist who has a good hand for the sci-fi style, and I wish they'd given him more to do. The women are all catsuit-clad and decidedly stripper-tastic in both pose and usually choice of footgear. In space, no one will see you stumble. There's a decent amount of it, but it's less inspiring than I'd like. A few of the armors deliver, but I'm left wanting.
Editing. Yes. Editing...I'm a realist. I'm currently working through my own project, so I realize mistakes slip through, especially with a large product. But this?
As the saying goes:
God made all men; Cornel Colt made them equal.
This makes my teeth ache, and not just because I'm prior military. (The closest I can tell, a cornel is a species of tree.) There were a lot of this variety of mistake, where a reference to a centaur was kept, or a fragmented sentence was left behind. There's no proofreader mentioned in the credits and it shows in places.
This suffers from too much ambition. I wanted races, vehicles, genre specific traits and feats, some skill adjustments, mechanics for guns and power armor-- and telling me that power armor just juices strength, adds to DR and bumps reflex is, in my opinion, a missed opportunity. We could have seen a component-like system for hybrid armors, larger than man-sized armors, a point-buy system for customizing mount points and internal systems. Sure, there's some add-on components, but nothing interesting to put through its paces. (And side note? No option to make your power armor hardened, so as to better survive EMP effects or cosmic/solar radiation. Yeah, I'm going with "Oops?") The Mecha ... Perhaps I've just been spoiled by Cthulhutech, but I'm not impressed-- the manticore's image isn't even quadrupedal to match the descriptive text ... but it goes back to being overambitious. This needed to be tight and focused, relying on the core rules to handle the basics and considering IF to be a bolt-on aftermarket modification you adjust your Pathfinder game to handle.
Ships get a half-hearted treatment. We see discussion of space hazards, outlining debris, radiation, the vaccuum and then only debris sees any associated mechanics. Again, not to harp on it, but solar wind is a constant. It's what might have turned Mars into a rusty iceball. It can cook you like a hotdog with Coronal Mass Ejections. It's a massive consideration for extraplanetary operations, and it merits a seven word sentence. I'm not looking for "ISS:The RPG," but given we're talking about travelling between the stars, I would have hoped it deserved a little more. When it finally is addressed, over 60 pages later, we don't even get a reference back to the ship section. (Or maybe usefully, one forward?)
There are no traits defined in this book. None. Not the way we've come to see them as "half-feats." Probably 20-25% of the book didn't need to be there in the way of the combat chapter, repeated feats, and other miscellany. Tell me what you're doing different, and then reference the Core.
The Bestiary portion offers a pile of creatures, but tucked back into the book like this, it would have really benefited from an actual TOC or even just page listing of the monsters. No such luck.
Psychic rules-- ? Really? With the new stuff coming out from Dreamscarred? This is 100 pages of space that didn't have to be here, and is poorly served in close contest of its competitor, Dreamscarred.
Really....overall I'd give it a 3.5 to a 3ish. I hate to do that, but it's not what a lot folks would think and its a bunch of sample manuscripts jamned a bunch of questions together. I guess get it if you want it, but there are better otions depending one what it is you need.
-Ben.
I'm not sure what happened there at the end, but this is what it should say:
Really....overall I'd give it a 3.5 to a 3ish. I hate to do that, but it's not what a lot folks would think and it feels like a bunch of sample manuscripts jammed together while answering a bunch of questions. I guess you should get it if you want it, but there are better options--Cthulhutech or Fading Suns d20, for instance-- depending on what it is you need.
-Ben.
I guess you should get it if you want it, but there are better options--Cthulhutech or Fading Suns d20, for instance-- depending on what it is you need.
The problem is that Cthulhutech isn't a d20 product and Fading Suns d20 is OOP (but I do have the latter). :/
The problem is that Cthulhutech isn't a d20 product and Fading Suns d20 is OOP (but I do have the latter). :/
You're right, and that's an issue with the market right now-- lack of a quality PFRPG SF option. Is this the solution? I don't think it is.
-Ben.
The problem is that Cthulhutech isn't a d20 product and Fading Suns d20 is OOP (but I do have the latter). :/You're right, and that's an issue with the market right now-- lack of a quality PFRPG SF option. Is this the solution? I don't think it is.
-Ben.
The only other attempt was Dredan, but I think trying to mesh it with T20 may have been overkill. Haven't heard anything out of them since.
Anyway, I need to start reading through my copy and throw in an honest two pennies soon. Thanks!
This is *not* a review, but is more of an ... overview, I suppose.
I bought it because like everyone else, I *WANT* a PF sci-fi game! And, because I want a *good* PF game, I've been emailing pretty extensively with the Avalon folks over issues I am encountering in the manuscript.
I agree, it does frequently feel like I am reading a beta-copy. Having been involved in various writing projects (creating writing classes, training manuals, and other technical writing), I know how valuable it can be to get a proof-reading by someone totally unconnected to the development stage. They will catch "logic gaps" that developers mentally fill in due to knowing how the system is *supposed* to work. (not saying this is what *has* happened with IF, saying I have seen it happen in other projects)
I think IF is an ambitious project with a *lot* of potential. As it stands, the rulebook definitely needs work to hit the "professionally published" mark we normally expect. However, in the realm of 3pp PDF offerings, it is not the worst I've encountered. With the company believing in the product and wanting to improve it, it could quickly and easily hit that "professionally published" mark *and* become not just one of the better 3pp offerings, but a solid line of products as well.
Besides, this way I don't have to start my own publishing company to have a place to submit my sci-fi supplements.
You hit the nail on the head regarding the editorial process.
I agree with you. I check out stuff even if it has a whiff of sci-fi space-opera that I could use in Pathfinder. But I'm of the premise that one needs to start out small and then expand.
Eventually, there needs to be some sort of consensus of a base framework of OGL/PF compatible stats that will be accepted by the 'community' to work off from in the same fashion that the 3PP's has come around to Paizo's on Pathfinder's take from the 3.x editions.
The question remains who and/or when.
What makes Pathfinder Great is not really the PathfinderRPG (though it is great in its own right), but the wealth of supporting material - setting books, modules, and full on campaigns (a.k.a., the adventure paths)!
There are a couple of other things that this company needs to really fill the roll of "Pathfinder in SPACE."
In addition to great rules ...
And while a full on adventure path might be a bit much for a smaller company (not that Paizo is huge), but write the adventures in a way that they can naturally link together.
Agreed. Of course, visions of what constitutes a great set of rules, setting, or module will vary some from gamer to gamer. As proof, I submit the current discussions going on in the thread Lord Fyre started here. I think every poster in that thread has a slightly different view on what the "right" tone/setting is.
Personally, I want a toolbox to build every setting I envision - and those change regularly. But I also want a good solid setting that fires my imagination that someone ELSE did all the work for. etc