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Hello!
I am playing a musket master gunslinger in a Kingmaker game and have been looking at the cost for firearm ammunition.
Making ammunition with Gunsmithing:
black powder for a cost in raw materials equal to 10% of the
price. If you have at least 1 rank in Craft (alchemy), you can
craft alchemical cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal
to half the price of the cartridge. Crafting bullets,
black powder, or cartridges takes 1 day of work for every
1,000 gp of ammunition (minimum 1 day).
Definition of Alchemical Cartridges
Alchemical Cartridges: An alchemical cartridge is a
prepared bundle of black powder with a bullet or pellets,
sometimes with more exotic material added, which is then
wrapped in paper or cloth and sealed with beeswax, lard, or
tallow. There are many types of alchemical cartridges, the
simplest being the paper cartridge—a simple mix of black
powder and either pellets or a bullet.
10 gp = 1 dose black powder
1 gp = 1 bullet
11 gp total
10% to make it myself
11 silver total for 1 shot
Now, if I take that same powder and bullet and wrap it in a scrap of cloth and apply some beeswax, I pay:
12 gp = 1 paper catridge
50% to make it myself
60 silver total for 1 shot
That's 49 silver for a scrap of cloth or paper and a bit of beeswax.
That seems rather harsh to me. Has this been errata'd? How are other gunslingers dealing with this issue?
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Ammo is expensive. It gets to be less of a problem when you hit higher levels and are wealthier. There's also Abundant Ammunition if you can get it, which has the added bonus of also giving you unlimited special material ammunition.
You are certainly right that it's expensive.
If I take Musket Master to 3rd instead of just 1st as I'd planned, I'll get to reload the musket as a move action without cartridges. I believe they would then make reloading a swift action.
I could get a double barrel musket then and reload one barrel as a swift action and the other as a move action. I think.
It's all good. This just hurts a lot at 1st and 2nd level.
alternatively, if firearms are more common in your setting, see if the DM will allow you to use the commonplace guns option laid out in the firearms rules. Honestly, in any setting where a PC would feasibly play as a gunslinger should be at the 'commonplace guns' setting. The 'emerging guns' setting makes it very hard to keep up as a gunslinger.
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10 gp = 1 dose black powder
1 gp = 1 bullet
11 gp total10% to make it myself
11 silver total for 1 shotNow, if I take that same powder and bullet and wrap it in a scrap of cloth and apply some beeswax, I pay:
12 gp = 1 paper catridge
50% to make it myself
60 silver total for 1 shotThat's 49 silver for a scrap of cloth or paper and a bit of beeswax.
That seems rather harsh to me. Has this been errata'd? How are other gunslingers dealing with this issue?
I know this post is a little old, but I've been looking over how Gunsmith is worded.
Re-reading it again, it made me think that you pay for the bullet and powder at 10% and the actual cartridge (paper or metal) at 50%. Its the only thing that makes my head not hurt when looking at the math.
So if we use this idea as a base;
11 gp = 1 shot.
12 gp = 1 paper cartridge.
1 gp = paper and wax.
10% of 11 gp = 11 sp for 1 shot
50% of 1 gp = 5 sp for paper cartridge
16 sp total for 1 paper cartridge shot.
Side Note.
4 sp = Paper (1 sheet)
2 sp = Parchment (1 sheet)
1 gp = Sealing Wax (1 lb)
1 cp = 1 candle
You don't break down the cartridge value by fluffed components. Alchemical cartridges are crafted at 50% of their listed cost.
A paper cartridge's cost is 12 gp, so you can craft it for 6 gp.
Get the party caster to hit you with abundant ammunition before a long fight, or get a wand or custom item.
Yup, 6gp per paper cartridge. If you don't want to rely on the party caster, invest in UMD so you can cast it on yourself, or pick up a silver spindle ioun stone (one 1st level spell three times per day as an SLA).
You don't break down the cartridge value by fluffed components. Alchemical cartridges are crafted at 50% of their listed cost.
A paper cartridge's cost is 12 gp, so you can craft it for 6 gp.
Get the party caster to hit you with abundant ammunition before a long fight, or get a wand or custom item.
I know exactly what you are saying, I'm saying is WHY does it cost so much more for a little paper and wax? What Scraps says is totally correct, I'm just offering a different point of view.
*I think I should have said:
Re-reading it again, it made me think that you SHOULD pay for the bullet and powder at 10% and the actual cartridge (paper or metal) at 50%.
You don't break down the cartridge value by fluffed components. Alchemical cartridges are crafted at 50% of their listed cost.
A paper cartridge's cost is 12 gp, so you can craft it for 6 gp.
Get the party caster to hit you with abundant ammunition before a long fight, or get a wand or custom item.
I know exactly what you are saying, I'm saying is WHY does it cost so much more for a little paper and wax? What Scraps says is totally correct, I'm just offering a different point of view.
Basically? Because in order to attempt to satisfy the 'i hate fire arms keep out!' and the 'omg i want to be a gunslinger in golarion' crowds at the same time, the setting has rediculous prices on firearms making them painful to use. The costs are kept arbitrarily high for setting reasons. And for whatever insane reason, this was made the default in the actual core rules instead of making the unreasonable prices the option.
Basically its stupid and you should talk to your gm about using one of the more managable levels of firearm availability, or simply not play a gunslinger. Though at least in kingmaker you actually have time to craft your ammo, and can use things like the downtime rules to make back the cash you need to keep yourself supplied.
Either way I absolutely hate the mishmash of firearms rules paizo has put out, and dont use them, though if someone wants to use firearms in my game, I'd allow it, just not paizo's mess. Misfire is stupid(crossbows can jam, weapons can break, but only fire arms have a problem built right into their base mechanics), the cost is stupid (a basic weapon should not cost the same as a magic sword), the difficulty one has to invest in being able to fire more then once a round is stupid (realism can go to hell, we have a game based around full attacks, making firearms the exception just causes problems), and the fact that they target touch ac is stupid (crossbows penetrated armor too, so did longbows why on earth are firearms the only thing we represent this in?)
You don't break down the cartridge value by fluffed components. Alchemical cartridges are crafted at 50% of their listed cost.
A paper cartridge's cost is 12 gp, so you can craft it for 6 gp.
Get the party caster to hit you with abundant ammunition before a long fight, or get a wand or custom item.
I know exactly what you are saying, I'm saying is WHY does it cost so much more for a little paper and wax? What Scraps says is totally correct, I'm just offering a different point of view.
*I think I should have said:
Re-reading it again, it made me think that you SHOULD pay for the bullet and powder at 10% and the actual cartridge (paper or metal) at 50%.
Because for whatever reason, the designers seem to think "game balance" (whatever that means) is more important than immersion-consistent mechanics. They try to make them work together, but if there's a conflict then they'll go with "balance" every time.
Because for whatever reason, the designers seem to think "game balance" (whatever that means) is more important than immersion-consistent mechanics. They try to make them work together, but if there's a conflict then they'll go with "balance" every time.
As well they should.
Basically its stupid and you should talk to your gm about using one of the more managable levels of firearm availability, or simply not play a gunslinger. Though at least in kingmaker you actually have time to craft your ammo, and can use things like the downtime rules to make back the cash you need to keep yourself supplied.
This is our first gun game, and no one wanted to play the Gunslinger for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I'm giving guns a try, and am hoping that my GM will at least help us out with the costs.
As well they should.Because for whatever reason, the designers seem to think "game balance" (whatever that means) is more important than immersion-consistent mechanics. They try to make them work together, but if there's a conflict then they'll go with "balance" every time.
As you like it.