Bella Sara: Northern Lights

Don't know if the product description is written by Paizo staff (doubtfully), but just to nitpick, there was never a Norse goddess called "Froya". There was "Freya" (in modern, anglicized spelling), but she was far from a "mother-goddess". Odin's wife was Frigga, who's closer to the "mother-goddess" archetype.

Sorry, I couldn't let it go :)

Froya is the Scandinavian form of Freya...same deity.

Froya is the Scandinavian form of Freya...same deity.

Let me first acknowledge a typo of my own: I meant "Frigg" and not "Frigga" in my earlier post; for some reason I can't edit it a day later :(

Anyway, Andrew, "Norse" as a term is synonymous w/ (old) Scandinavian. Linguistically speaking, Old Norse is essentially Old Icelandic: the mainland Scandinavian countries never had as many written records (at least that survived) from the time period, and our written sources of "Norse Mythology" derive mainly from the Old Icelandic sources.

"Freya" is just the anglicized version of Old Norse "Freyja"; "Froya" doesn't exist to my knowledge in any of the modern Scandinavian languages (Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Icelandic, Faeroese). "Frøya" does (e.g., Norwegian), but "ø" and "o" are not interchangeable vowels.

If the company was going to be consistent, then they'd use only the anglicized versions of these names (i.e., Odin, Thor, Freya, Frigg, etc.) rather than making up a new one, like "Froya" :)

Sorry to be so pedantic; part of my academic background w/out boring you w/ the details...

... but "ø" and "o" are not interchangeable vowels.

If the company was going to be consistent, then they'd use only the anglicized versions of these names (i.e., Odin, Thor, Freya, Frigg, etc.) rather than making up a new one, like "Froya"...

I pulled my info from Davidson's Gods and Myths of the Viking Age , so I'm guessing ø was not available in the typeset and the publishers figured most English readers would never notice; maybe it's the same with Bella Sara. I suppose the editors might also have thought it cool to interchange spellings, who knows.

Having read all of the above was my Geek Moment...

I should mention that I looked through every Norse resource I have, and Davidson's is the only one that even lists Frøya. I'll have to google it later. This has turned into an interesting thread for me, and rekindled my investigator's spirit. Maybe I can incorporate this experience into a CoC game...this is super geeky, isn't it. I think I need to purchase some dictionaries (Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Icelandic, Faeroes), and get my study on!

From Wiki:

The Norse form of the name was Frøy/Frey. The name of the island has probably the same root as the name of the Norse god Freyr, which name originally was a title: 'lord, master'. The oldest meaning of the common word was '(the one) in front; the foremost, the leading' - and here in the sense 'the island in front of Hitra'.

Looks, at a quick glance, like it has little to do with the Bella Sara or Davidson use...

I should mention that I looked through every Norse resource I have, and Davidson's is the only one that even lists Frøya. I'll have to google it later. This has turned into an interesting thread for me, and rekindled my investigator's spirit. Maybe I can incorporate this experience into a CoC game...this is super geeky, isn't it. I think I need to purchase some dictionaries (Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Icelandic, Faeroes), and get my study on!

You'll have to forgive Davidson for the misspelling. She was an archaeologist if I remember correctly, and not a linguist. If she knew one of the modern Scandinavian languages, she no doubt put in a variation of "Frøya" instead of anglicizing the name like all the others we're familiar w/ in English-language books about the Norse gods.

Now I'm wondering what "Froya" had to do w/ horses...like the others listed in their products. (Answer: nothing) And again, to continue the pedantic streak, it was Frigg who was akin to a mother goddess, not Freyja, in Old Norse mythology. So a couple of avoidable mistakes in the product description. But most people wouldn't know the difference, or even care, so in the end, maybe it doesn't matter :)

Ok, geek battery shutting...down...

From Wiki:

The Norse form of the name was Frøy/Frey. The name of the island has probably the same root as the name of the Norse god Freyr, which name originally was a title: 'lord, master'. The oldest meaning of the common word was '(the one) in front; the foremost, the leading' - and here in the sense 'the island in front of Hitra'.

Looks, at a quick glance, like it has little to do with the Bella Sara or Davidson use...

Hmm, so the discussion continues. I'm not sure what island they're talking about. Be a little wary about information from a Wiki.

Anyway, Freyr and Freyja were brother and sister, and probably also husband and wife, as was the custom of the Vanir. If you study Norse mythology, you'd learn that there were 2 competing groups of gods, the AEsir (my keyset can't do the ae ligature, sorry) and the Vanir. Odin, Thor (to continue using the anglicized names) and the others we know so well came from the former; Frey and Freya from the Vanir. The story of how the 2 groups became essentially one is kind of interesting, but beyond the scope of an internet thread.

...I'm guessing ø was not available in the typeset and the publishers figured most English readers would never notice; maybe it's the same with Bella Sara.

I'm guessing that Hidden City decided that their primary audience—pre-teen girls—wouldn't miss the ø.

Andrew Turner wrote:

...I'm guessing ø was not available in the typeset and the publishers figured most English readers would never notice; maybe it's the same with Bella Sara.

I'm guessing that Hidden City decided that their primary audience—pre-teen girls—wouldn't miss the ø.

You know, I got so caught up in ø's and o's and deifications, I never stopped to ask: exactly what is this game? Is it a game at all, or just a set of trading cards? Oh, well. Forests and trees and what you see and miss for seeing, and all that...

Vic Wertz wrote:

Andrew Turner wrote:

...I'm guessing ø was not available in the typeset and the publishers figured most English readers would never notice; maybe it's the same with Bella Sara.

I'm guessing that Hidden City decided that their primary audience—pre-teen girls—wouldn't miss the ø.

You know, I got so caught up in ø's and o's and deifications, I never stopped to ask: exactly what is this game? Is it a game at all, or just a set of trading cards? Oh, well. Forests and trees and what you see and miss for seeing, and all that...

I think it's a set of trading cards. Knowing now it's for pre-teen girls, I'll apologize for being a pedantic ass.

Vic, you have a wonderfully understated...let's call it a tone and leave it at that :)

I think it's a set of trading cards.

If you're of the right age, it's potentially kind of neat. The cards all have codes that you can use on bellasara.com to add the horses to your online stable, where you can groom them and such. I gather they have some games you can play there, too, but I'm not the target market, so I haven't tried. :-) But if you're interested, they'll give you a free online horse without having to buy anything...

My friend's daughter thoroughly enjoys this game - that being said, it's very targeted for the pre to early teen girl segment (that are very into horses).

To recap:

An interesting bit of learned internitpickerry.

Further interesting internitpickerry on BenS's post.

A spontaneous discussion on obscure Scandanavian gods

Paizonian inside joke.

A whole bunch more info on Scandanavian gods...

Umm, guys... you realize that this is for the Barbie demographic, right?

D'oh.

D'oh.

It's cool if you're into this sort of thing!

I love our messageboards. :)

*laughs at Cosmo's apt analysis*

:D Me too, Cosmo, me too. :)

Maybe I should change my alias to something w/ the word "nitpicker" in it. Heh heh.

Funny recap Cosmo. But you know, it's spelled "Scandinavian", not "Scandanavian" :)

Must...use pedantic powers...for good...

Dear bella sara parents, members, and kids,
I have been collecting bella sara horse cards for many months.The first and second editions have been ok, but the third edion is awful. First of all there are cards with dead, rotten and even bare skeleton horses. Even though there are some beutiful horses. What's the most despicable horse card though is that there is one horse card that has a dead girl on it and above it her ghost, and a ghost horse with her. Below that picture there is a saying. It says "open your eyes to all that is good". Now put the picture and the saying together. What the message is saying is that death is good. So parent, bella sara members, and kids is this what you what to collect? It's not just this one card, it's all of them.
Thanks for reading!
Sincerly,
Alex

...the third edion is awful. first of all there are cards with dead, rotten and even bare skeleton horses....

Yes, those Scandinavian myths are a bit grim!

I guess we tend to forget that, having a hobby that many mainstream folk might find a tad 'morbid'.

Kick out the mopey goths! Three cheers for happy games you can play with your kids and your gran!

No more dead horses, or icky stuff...

Then again, my avatar is a Babylonian metal bull, with stinky breath, so what do I know...?

Hey Snorter!
Thanks for being on my side of things. In bella sara all I ever care about are the beutiful horses, but when they came out with the dead ones I was not happy. Plus I know that the parents of the bella sara card collecters wouldn't be happy if they all of a sudden saw that their kids were getting morbid horse cards. I just wanted to give everyone a little update.
Thanks for reading!
Sincerly,
Alex

I was kind of wondering if any of anybody who's reading this has an unactivated Froya, or Friends Forever? because if you do I would like to trade for it. Some of these northern lights cards are kind of cool.
Thanks for reading this!
Sincerly,
Alex

The first half of the posts for these cards juxtapose beautifully with the last half. What a hoot.

They do don't they :)

The first and second editions have been ok, but the third edion is awful. First of all there are cards with dead, rotten and even bare skeleton horses.

I've got all but three of the series three cards, and I'm totally NOT seeing where you're seeing "dead, rotten and even bare skeleton horses"? The closest are a couple of ghost horses, and there was a ghost horse in both of the previous sets (Halloween) also. I was actually hoping there would be a bare skeleton horse lol.

I will say the dead girl card is a little disturbing, but that's probably because I'm up to like 7 of the darn things lol... sick of looking at it.

Dear Reader,
The only reason your not seeing the skeleton and dead horses yet is because they are realy rare but I've known a couple people who have seen them. Go to bellasara.com to see all the horses. but you have to be a member like me!
Thanks for reading this,
Sincerly,
Alex

The card list on the Bella Sara site has been down since before the introduction of Northern Lights, so I'm not entirely sure where you're seeing it.

And they might be rare, but I've acquired all but three Northern Lights cards, and the three I'm missing are all foils that I already have the non-foil version of (Bifrost, Iceking, and Lakehorse), so I know they're not skeletal.

Are you referring to Donn (6/55 so not rare) -- I can just barely make out skeletal structure in him, as if he's just a little bit transparent. My niece (9 years old) couldn't see it at all until I scanned the card and zoomed in on my computer. I had to make the graphic almost 1000 pixels on the short side before she could easily see the skeleton, and she has perfect vision... so I don't think it's much of a concern if that is the horse you're referring to.

Oh, and she has also decided that the story behind the Fylgie card (the one with the dead girl) is that the girls are twins, and the one with the pony is trying to wake her twin up so they don't miss the boat. Little kids are a lot less likely to jump to the macabre (but usually correct) explanations for things I suspect.

Dear reader,
I am sorry I was a little bit mistaken. In the card, flygie it looked kind of like you could see though the horse and girl so I guess I kind of got a little ahead of myself. And you know about the 4th edion coming out soon right. I acully think the dead horse cards were in there or the 5th edion. sorry!
sincerly,
bellasaragirl

Hey ya'll,
Guess what? The ancient lights are coming to stores this month. But here's the cool thing. This 4th bella sara series features all new cards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That means no reapeats from the first, second, or third series. There isn't even bella, fiona, or jewl that I know of. So get ready for the set everyone's going to be talking about. For the complete first, second, and third series collecters lists just ask. The fourth series list is coming soon!
Thanks for reading this!
Sincerly,
Bellasaragirl

Not sure where you're getting your information, I can't find even so much as a teaser (much less a press release or anything official) regarding the Ancient Lights set having all new cards. For that matter, the only mention of the next expansion is a pre-order on another site, and as I've learned over many years in several of my other collecting hobbies, just because one site (or many sites for that matter) say "This product will be here by this month", it doesn't necessarily make it so.

I'm sure you're a child or young teen, but I felt you should know that you shouldn't spread rumors about stuff unless you can back it up with a link or something. Wouldn't you feel just awful if my 9 year old niece read your post, got a pack of the cards, and it turned out they were all new editions of the dozen or so repeating cards they've been using?

As for your statement that "maybe the dead horses are part of the next expansion", you made the statement that the cards had dead/skeletal horses back in July -- I find it highly unlikely that you were seeing cards for an expansion that's not even scheduled for release until 3 months later.

Hi again. I messed up my past account and had to make a new one. So now I am bellasaragirl2. Well now I amalot younger than alot of people here on paizo and I do read all of the different kind of info about bella sara I can get on places like google and other varios websites. But I am almost positive that the 4th series has all new cards. I was mistaken about the dead horses though. But I did see them before the card collection page went down on bella sara. They might even be just a couple of promo cards like lugh, brided, minty, and erinn. I'm not saying for sure. Just they may exist later on. Bella sara has a lot of cool cards. I'm just trying to tell what I've heard, not spread rumurs even though I was a little mistaken about the dead ones.
Thanks for reading this!
Sincerly,
bellasaragirl2

You know, I have no idea if this girl is for real or not, but, I gotta say, she's pretty darn entertaining. Almost makes me want to go buy a pack, if I was, you know, not weird.

Not quite what I wanted to say, but gotta watch my mouth, just in case.

I am real. I just messed up my past account. All my friends think I'm pretty amusing too. And everybody thought I was wierd because I tried to be just like a horse way back when I was 5-10. Thats when I met madeline who helped me start my collection of bella sara. Then I started helping maple build her collection. Then I left that church that we went to. And every body always thought I was weird since then. Now I guess all of you guys here on paizo think I'm weird too. Thats just what everyone I meet thinks about me. Thats just the way I am. Weired. :( I have more of a history than that too.

Now I guess all of you guys here on paizo think I'm weird too. Thats just what everyone I meet thinks about me. Thats just the way I am. Weired. :( I have more of a history than that too.

... I'm referring to the fact that I'm a twenty year old male. Who does not collect cards with horses on them.

bellasaragirl2 wrote:

Now I guess all of you guys here on paizo think I'm weird too. Thats just what everyone I meet thinks about me. Thats just the way I am. Weired. :( I have more of a history than that too.

... I'm referring to the fact that I'm a twenty year old male. Who does not collect cards with horses on them.

** spoiler omitted **

Me too!

Ok? I guess we all like diffrent things that others think are weird. I use to collect my litle pony to. Thats before madeline showed me bella sara. I think collecting cards is a whole lot easyer than collecting toys, but we all do that once in a lifetime. Don't we?

Hey ya'll!
Bella sara has updated thier site and now they have a new game and thier old card page back!Take a look at it and you will see all of the horses plus the 4th series. I told you I wasn't lieing!

No, you definitely weren't... just had the wrong expansion is all. There really IS a skeleton horse in series 4 and one that might be decaying (the picture is kind of hard for me to see).

My niece will be pleased... she's a morbid little kid sometimes. Although this year she's decided rather than her usual vampire cheerleader, vampire fairy, or vampire witch she's going to be a regular witch, with some medieval influence in the dress. Actually the one she chose is quite tasteful IMO.

This is probably because her 3 year old cousin has chosen the ever popular costume of "Kitty Cat! KITTY!" and the older girl is planning to claim the younger one is her witches familiar LOL.

Anyways, I apologize for thinking you were making things up on the dead/skeleton horses topic. You know you're getting old (in my case, 31) when you automatically jump to the conclusion that someone is making things up to get attention.

Thanks for seeing things my way. I still don't see how most girls like dead things like that. But, hey most of my friends are exited about the dead horses in the new exspansion anyway. I guess i'll just have to except the fact that there are dead horses that I will be seeing alot of, mabey.

Eh, it's not so much that pre-teen and teenage girls "like" dead things as it is that their parents hate it and that boys tend to like darker/more morbid things. Although that in itself may be a reflection of the fact that parents hate it LOL.

It's what makes Goth so popular now and what made the leather and chains look so popular in the 80's when I was that age.

Just try getting any teen or pre-teen to admit they only like something because their parents hate it though, they'll deny it most vehemently lol. It's really the same thing that's been going on since the beginning of time probably -- every generation wants to distinguish itself from the generation before, and it never occurs to them that their "rebellion" is exactly the same as the "rebellion" their parents engaged in 20 years earlier lol.

Course, probably easier for me to see it... I don't actually HAVE kids, so I don't really need to deal with it -- so I'm free to compare how my niece acts to how her mother acted at the same age. It's actually pretty funny watching my sister being driven insane by the same things that drove our parents insane 20 years ago haha.